You can see what the tc MPs were doing from those two documents,
And what they were trying to do after the invasion.
They were not contributing to the smooth running of parliament and they wanted to come back to parliament after and push for and create laws that would only be applied in the areas not cut off by the Turkish military.
In other words, they wanted to vote / veto for and pass laws that would apply to the free areas of the republic but the occupied areas would be treated differently. Basically, they wanted the trnc and the occupation to remain and they keep their posts in the roc parliament.
Lordo just digs his own grave, and we see the shit stains of the Cyprus problem for what they are.
This is old news, nothing new, like lordo and every other shit stain blaming the Cyprus problem on Cypriot democracy.
Maximus wrote:You can see what the tc MPs were doing from those two documents,
And what they were trying to do after the invasion.
They were not contributing to the smooth running of parliament and they wanted to come back to parliament after and push for and create laws that would only be applied in the areas not cut off by the Turkish military.
In other words, they wanted to vote / veto for and pass laws that would apply to the free areas of the republic but the occupied areas would be treated differently. Basically, they wanted the trnc and the occupation to remain and they keep their posts in the roc parliament.
Lordo just digs his own grave, and we see the shit stains of the Cyprus problem for what they are.
This is old news, nothing new, like lordo and every other shit stain blaming the Cyprus problem on Cypriot democracy.
so they not only did not implement the constitution, they grabbed all the power and is that all you can say. to this day in all the talks they have never asked to the un to discuss one man one vote.
Lordo wrote:here are the pages 134 and 135 refering to tc mps not allowed to return and why. also very interesting that the mps did not need an escort to visit to see clerides apparently, it was safe to move around. or at least so he thought.
Thanks for your time I knew there were distortions of the truth, both in what you said previously and what appears in Turkish propaganda sides. The constitution actually collapsed by the minute the TC MPs and the Vice President abandoned their positions. And everybody knows they did that as a reactions to Makarios' proposal for the 13 amendments.
The main issue here is that the GCs took advantage of the TCs absence to abolish the separate majority issue in the Parliament. Was that illegal/unconstitutional? I don't know.(**) All I know there are only a few articles of the 1960 constitution that can't be changed with a 2/3rd majority.
Imo that was an improvement towards better Democracy without violating the principle of the Bi-commonality of the state.. Still the TCs would have 30% of the power and could play a huge role.It would just be a matter of forming alliances. Damn it Akel only has 26% and look at it's power, imagine the TCs having a free to go 30% no matter what!
One of the most important competences of the House is its right to amend the Constitution, the supreme law of the state, except the basic articles of the Constitution, that is those provisions which determine the form of government as a presidential Republic (with a Greek Cypriot President and a Turkish Cypriot Vice-President), as well as all those provisions ensuring the bicommunal character of the state and the principle of separation of powers. The remaining articles of the Constitution may be amended by a law passed by a majority vote comprising at least two-thirds of the total number of the Greek Cypriot Representatives and two-thirds of the Turkish Cypriot Representatives.
Lordo wrote:here are the pages 134 and 135 refering to tc mps not allowed to return and why. also very interesting that the mps did not need an escort to visit to see clerides apparently, it was safe to move around. or at least so he thought.
Thanks for your time I knew there were distortions of the truth, both in what you said previously and what appears in Turkish propaganda sides. The constitution actually collapsed by the minute the TC MPs and the Vice President abandoned their positions. And everybody knows they did that as a reactions to Makarios' proposal for the 13 amendments.
The main issue here is that the GCs took advantage of the TCs absence to abolish the separate majority issue in the Parliament. Was that illegal/unconstitutional? I don't know.(**) All I know there are only a few articles of the 1960 constitution that can't be changed with a 2/3rd majority.
Imo that was an improvement towards better Democracy without violating the principle of the Bi-commonality of the state.. Still the TCs would have 30% of the power and could play a huge role.It would just be a matter of forming alliances. Damn it Akel only has 26% and look at it's power, imagine the TCs having a free to go 30% no matter what!
One of the most important competences of the House is its right to amend the Constitution, the supreme law of the state, except the basic articles of the Constitution, that is those provisions which determine the form of government as a presidential Republic (with a Greek Cypriot President and a Turkish Cypriot Vice-President), as well as all those provisions ensuring the bicommunal character of the state and the principle of separation of powers. The remaining articles of the Constitution may be amended by a law passed by a majority vote comprising at least two-thirds of the total number of the Greek Cypriot Representatives and two-thirds of the Turkish Cypriot Representatives.
is that how you see it pyro. an improvement on democracy?
let me declare here and now that if it was that, I would agree with it. but as you know it was not and infact it was for treason. the objective was to hand over sovereignty to griiis.
now why i hear you say? and you can stop blaming akel for this.
after the election if makarios distributed the number of mps to the parties according to the vote, it actually would have worked. even tt would have worked with akel to avert treason so long as akel at least believed in roc. whether at that time they did or not is in doubt.
but thats not how it happened,is it?
akel were given was it 5 or 6 seats the rest went to eoka men.
but when it comes to tc mps withdrawing from government, did you really expect any to turn up after the onslaught on nicosia particularly kucuk kaymakli? i expected a fairer assessment from you. never mind you cannot change your basic character can you. the narrative was tcs rebelled and we put them down. yeah and pigs will fly too.
what was it the independent constitutional judge said again.
Professor Ernst Forsthoff, the neutral President of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus until 1963 told Die Welt on 27 December 1963 "Makarios bears on his shoulders the sole responsibility of the recent tragic events. His aim is to deprive the Turkish community of their rights." In an interview with UPI press agency on 30 December 1963 he said: "All this happened because Makarios wanted to remove all constitutional rights from the Turkish Cypriots."
and of course he did not say what the objective of the removal of the rights were. but lets face it you a re an intelligent man and you have reached a conclusion that it was to make the place more democratic and those nasty tcs were against democracy right? yeah right and it has horns on it too.
this is the real reason why there will be no peace agreement and we will end up as two states sooner or later.
does anybody know when Professor Ernst Forsthoff left the island.
Lordo wrote:here are the pages 134 and 135 refering to tc mps not allowed to return and why. also very interesting that the mps did not need an escort to visit to see clerides apparently, it was safe to move around. or at least so he thought.
Thanks for your time I knew there were distortions of the truth, both in what you said previously and what appears in Turkish propaganda sides. The constitution actually collapsed by the minute the TC MPs and the Vice President abandoned their positions. And everybody knows they did that as a reactions to Makarios' proposal for the 13 amendments.
The main issue here is that the GCs took advantage of the TCs absence to abolish the separate majority issue in the Parliament. Was that illegal/unconstitutional? I don't know.(**) All I know there are only a few articles of the 1960 constitution that can't be changed with a 2/3rd majority.
Imo that was an improvement towards better Democracy without violating the principle of the Bi-commonality of the state.. Still the TCs would have 30% of the power and could play a huge role.It would just be a matter of forming alliances. Damn it Akel only has 26% and look at it's power, imagine the TCs having a free to go 30% no matter what!
One of the most important competences of the House is its right to amend the Constitution, the supreme law of the state, except the basic articles of the Constitution, that is those provisions which determine the form of government as a presidential Republic (with a Greek Cypriot President and a Turkish Cypriot Vice-President), as well as all those provisions ensuring the bicommunal character of the state and the principle of separation of powers. The remaining articles of the Constitution may be amended by a law passed by a majority vote comprising at least two-thirds of the total number of the Greek Cypriot Representatives and two-thirds of the Turkish Cypriot Representatives.
is that how you see it pyro. an improvement on democracy?
let me declare here and now that if it was that, I would agree with it. but as you know it was not and infact it was for treason. the objective was to hand over sovereignty to griiis.
now why i hear you say? and you can stop blaming akel for this.
after the election if makarios distributed the number of mps to the parties according to the vote, it actually would have worked. even tt would have worked with akel to avert treason so long as akel at least believed in roc. whether at that time they did or not is in doubt.
but thats not how it happened,is it?
akel were given was it 5 or 6 seats the rest went to eoka men.
but when it comes to tc mps withdrawing from government, did you really expect any to turn up after the onslaught on nicosia particularly kucuk kaymakli? i expected a fairer assessment from you. never mind you cannot change your basic character can you. the narrative was tcs rebelled and we put them down. yeah and pigs will fly too.
what was it the independent constitutional judge said again.
Professor Ernst Forsthoff, the neutral President of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus until 1963 told Die Welt on 27 December 1963 "Makarios bears on his shoulders the sole responsibility of the recent tragic events. His aim is to deprive the Turkish community of their rights." In an interview with UPI press agency on 30 December 1963 he said: "All this happened because Makarios wanted to remove all constitutional rights from the Turkish Cypriots."
and of course he did not say what the objective of the removal of the rights were. but lets face it you a re an intelligent man and you have reached a conclusion that it was to make the place more democratic and those nasty tcs were against democracy right? yeah right and it has horns on it too.
this is the real reason why there will be no peace agreement and we will end up as two states sooner or later.
does anybody know when Professor Ernst Forsthoff left the island.
Well, you all know I am from Kucuk Kaymakli and was there in 1963 as a kid and taken as prisoner with other 700 TCs and everything is still very fresh in my mind.
Lordo, you say in a sarcastic way that “those nasty TCs were against democracy right?”, implying that the TCs were not against democracy in 1963, but is that really true in what you are saying, because even today the TCs are against democracy for Cyprus every time we have the so called “settlement talks”.
Lordo I just expressed an opinion whether it was unconstitutional or not based on material I already posted.
Now if you wish to lose your mind trying to figure out how we ended up to 1974 and to 2019 feel free to do it. You will just end up to what every illiterate vosko already knows. It was both sides' fault mainly the GCs fault upto 1974 and mainly the Tcs fault from 74 to date.
So sorry it's all meaningless to me.
What concerns me today is the party festival Ozersay organized for the TC+turkish journalists touring them around in Varoshia. My wife was not even allowed to see her house in there... Those cannibals were spilling out joy for the upcoming stealing of what's left of the GC properties in Varoshia.. Such a joy, and happiness, all those smiles and handshakes as if they won some kind of lottery. I would really feel ashamed if I were a TC. Have you watched the news today? Have you seen Ozersay's party festival?
bullshit. how can it be constitutional to shut down constitutional court and change the constitution of the cyprus without tc participation especially as they started the killing with hundreds of civilians killed. you woul have to have come from planet uranus to come up with such comment. you do not see through the comment when clerides claimed it was safe and there was no need for un excort to get to parliament? and they would not be allowed in unless tcs met the gc's demand.
as to the varoshites, they were offered varosha once in 1978 with no strings attached and refused by gc leadership second time in 2004 and they actually voted against the plan third time after 2004 in exchange for opening iup ercan and magusa sea port which was not accepted by the gc leadership.
i have no sympathy for varoshites or gcs anymore. we have had so many chances to solve the problem and they have refused. especially when talat and akinci has been in power. you people deserve everything you get and more.
Funny how Lordo posted several posts at the beginning of the thread, trying to push further down any replies to him.
First of all the Turk propagandist intentionally left out the last 2 articles of the Treaty of Guarantee (IV & V), probably because he didn't like IV:
Article IV. In the event of a breach of the provisions of the present Treaty, Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom undertake to consult together with respect to the representations or measures necessary to ensure observance of those provisions. In so far as common or concerted action may not prove possible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of • re-establishing the state of affairs created by the present Treaty.
The Treaty of Guarantee is very clear: partition is prohibited, the "Guarantors" guarantee the independence, and territorial integrity of Cyprus, and the only intervention allowed is one of re-establishing the state of affairs created by the treaty.
Turkey with the invasion did exactly the opposite of what they agreed to do: Instead of re-establishing the state of affairs created by the Treaty, it instead violated the independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus, and partitioned the island.
It could not be more clear that the Turkish invasion and occupation are illegal.
(now watch how the Turk propagandist will have no way to reply and he he will start swearing )
Lordo wrote:here are the pages 134 and 135 refering to tc mps not allowed to return and why. also very interesting that the mps did not need an escort to visit to see clerides apparently, it was safe to move around. or at least so he thought.
Thanks for your time I knew there were distortions of the truth, both in what you said previously and what appears in Turkish propaganda sides. The constitution actually collapsed by the minute the TC MPs and the Vice President abandoned their positions. And everybody knows they did that as a reactions to Makarios' proposal for the 13 amendments.
The main issue here is that the GCs took advantage of the TCs absence to abolish the separate majority issue in the Parliament. Was that illegal/unconstitutional? I don't know.(**) All I know there are only a few articles of the 1960 constitution that can't be changed with a 2/3rd majority.
Imo that was an improvement towards better Democracy without violating the principle of the Bi-commonality of the state.. Still the TCs would have 30% of the power and could play a huge role.It would just be a matter of forming alliances. Damn it Akel only has 26% and look at it's power, imagine the TCs having a free to go 30% no matter what!
One of the most important competences of the House is its right to amend the Constitution, the supreme law of the state, except the basic articles of the Constitution, that is those provisions which determine the form of government as a presidential Republic (with a Greek Cypriot President and a Turkish Cypriot Vice-President), as well as all those provisions ensuring the bicommunal character of the state and the principle of separation of powers. The remaining articles of the Constitution may be amended by a law passed by a majority vote comprising at least two-thirds of the total number of the Greek Cypriot Representatives and two-thirds of the Turkish Cypriot Representatives.
is that how you see it pyro. an improvement on democracy?
let me declare here and now that if it was that, I would agree with it. but as you know it was not and infact it was for treason. the objective was to hand over sovereignty to griiis.
now why i hear you say? and you can stop blaming akel for this.
after the election if makarios distributed the number of mps to the parties according to the vote, it actually would have worked. even tt would have worked with akel to avert treason so long as akel at least believed in roc. whether at that time they did or not is in doubt.
but thats not how it happened,is it?
akel were given was it 5 or 6 seats the rest went to eoka men.
but when it comes to tc mps withdrawing from government, did you really expect any to turn up after the onslaught on nicosia particularly kucuk kaymakli? i expected a fairer assessment from you. never mind you cannot change your basic character can you. the narrative was tcs rebelled and we put them down. yeah and pigs will fly too.
what was it the independent constitutional judge said again.
Professor Ernst Forsthoff, the neutral President of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus until 1963 told Die Welt on 27 December 1963 "Makarios bears on his shoulders the sole responsibility of the recent tragic events. His aim is to deprive the Turkish community of their rights." In an interview with UPI press agency on 30 December 1963 he said: "All this happened because Makarios wanted to remove all constitutional rights from the Turkish Cypriots."
and of course he did not say what the objective of the removal of the rights were. but lets face it you a re an intelligent man and you have reached a conclusion that it was to make the place more democratic and those nasty tcs were against democracy right? yeah right and it has horns on it too.
this is the real reason why there will be no peace agreement and we will end up as two states sooner or later.
does anybody know when Professor Ernst Forsthoff left the island.
Well, you all know I am from Kucuk Kaymakli and was there in 1963 as a kid and taken as prisoner with other 700 TCs and everything is still very fresh in my mind.
Lordo, you say in a sarcastic way that “those nasty TCs were against democracy right?”, implying that the TCs were not against democracy in 1963, but is that really true in what you are saying, because even today the TCs are against democracy for Cyprus every time we have the so called “settlement talks”.
come man why would tcs be against democracy in cyprus when they were given more power than their numbers would have deserved ordinarily. on that score alone i would say to you tcs beleived in democracy as was in cyprus at the time and had no wish to bring it down..look at the gcs when they not only had no intention of implementing democracy in cyprus, they had every intention to stop it working so they can justify to their stupid population that it was not working and it worked. after decades there are stu[id people who claim it did not work. which is simply bullshit.
when it came to gcs vs tcs. tcs knew all along that gcs had no intention of implementing democracy in cyprus and were hell bent on enosising roc with greece in a do or die manner just like boris's do or die thoughts. this is when calls of ya taksim ya olum came from. you know very well even in the darkest days of 63/64 or even 67 or even 74, tcs never asked for enosis with terggy. to them it was very simple. you enosise with griis if you want to but it will not be with the tcs. now this becomes do or die. either you stop eneosis or you die becasue enosis with greece is no living for tcs
read these words. Ölürüz de kömür gözlüm ölürüz Dost ağlasın, zalim felek utansın Kıyamette kavuşmak var, biliriz Dost ağlasın, kahpe felek utansın.
Bir çıkmaza girdi bugün yolumuz Geçit vermez sağımızla solumuz Kalır gayri bizim burda ölümüz Mert ağlasın, namert olan utansın.
Avşar ili yaylasına göçmedik Aşın yeyip sularını içmedik Tenhalarda kendimizden geçmedik Can ağlasın, hain felek utansın
Dadaloğlu'yum yine coştu çağladı Ak üstüne karaları bağladı Firkat odu yüreciğim dağladı Ben ölende Çapanoğlu utansın
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