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brexit not far away now

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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:06 pm

miltiades wrote:Hold on a minute Robin

From I have learned over 40 years of trading is that a speculator makes money on downward movements just as much as upward movements. How come that Stg has for the last 3 years been going down ?


No .... you have not been paying attention! They make money by currency movements in either direction certainly but these guys are not political or even market analysts they are number crunchers and follow the trend. They need a reason to buy and sell. The trend has been down because of all the doom-and-gloom from those that really would like to see the whole idea scrapped and the UK sucked back into the arms of the EU Mandarins.

IMO: If we were to follow the Chinese example of economics and apply MMT, the UK would bounce back after Brexit and the EU would collapse as we will have the World as our market on terms we control. No longer will we have to support farm subsidies for French farmers and subsidies for German Industry. Nor thankfully are we using the Euro as our currency that would make us subservient to the ECB.
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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby Lordo » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:32 am

cyprusgrump wrote:Is WTO Article 24 the antidote to a No Deal Brexit?


Nigel Farage, one of the UK's leading proponents of a 'hard Brexit' told Euronews yesterday that the negative impacts of Britain leaving the EU without a deal could be eliminated by the use of "Article 24 of the World Trade Organisation (WTO)".

What was he talking about?
He was picking up an argument that has been used previously by supporters of Brexit, referring to Article XXIV of the WTO's General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade.

That article governs free trade deals, essentially providing a loophole for countries who wish to lower trade barriers bilaterally, without adhering to the WTO principle that all members should have access to the same trading terms.

It also provides for countries which do not have free-trade agreement in place, to implement interim measures for up to 10 years.

So the UK and EU could continue trading without tariffs on March 30
Yes, under WTO rules this is possible, the UK and EU could both tell the WTO that they wanted to keep the same arrangements as before, or notify the WTO of changes to their relationship and the new terms they want to trade under.

Is there any other major issue with using this provision to alleviate the trade and border challenges associated with a No Deal Brexit?
Yes. Both sides need to agree, also known as having a deal. The EU has always refused to negotiate future trade arrangements until it has reached agreement with the UK over issues such as citizens rights, budget payments and the Northern Irish border.

Under the agreement Theresa May reached with Brussels last year, and rejected by the UK parliament, it was envisioned that there would be a two-year transition period under which the current trading relationships would be continued while the sides negotiated a new regime.


So the UK and EU could continue trading without tariffs on March 30 - so why did she not take? You must be joking, after we crash out we are not member of the wto our membership is via eu. uk have just applied to wto to try to take some of the arrangements eu has with the other members and eu replied "on yer bike boy".
listen to this old boy you may learn something or two if we are out of the eu.

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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby miltiades » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:55 am

Robin Hood wrote:
miltiades wrote:Hold on a minute Robin

From I have learned over 40 years of trading is that a speculator makes money on downward movements just as much as upward movements. How come that Stg has for the last 3 years been going down ?


No .... you have not been paying attention! They make money by currency movements in either direction certainly but these guys are not political or even market analysts they are number crunchers and follow the trend. They need a reason to buy and sell. The trend has been down because of all the doom-and-gloom from those that really would like to see the whole idea scrapped and the UK sucked back into the arms of the EU Mandarins.

IMO: If we were to follow the Chinese example of economics and apply MMT, the UK would bounce back after Brexit and the EU would collapse as we will have the World as our market on terms we control. No longer will we have to support farm subsidies for French farmers and subsidies for German Industry. Nor thankfully are we using the Euro as our currency that would make us subservient to the ECB.

Robin, in your opinion , had the result of the referendum been the other way would these " speculators" have driven the pound up ?
Or at least the pound would not have been where it now is ?
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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby Paphitis » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:53 am

miltiades wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
miltiades wrote:Hold on a minute Robin

From I have learned over 40 years of trading is that a speculator makes money on downward movements just as much as upward movements. How come that Stg has for the last 3 years been going down ?


No .... you have not been paying attention! They make money by currency movements in either direction certainly but these guys are not political or even market analysts they are number crunchers and follow the trend. They need a reason to buy and sell. The trend has been down because of all the doom-and-gloom from those that really would like to see the whole idea scrapped and the UK sucked back into the arms of the EU Mandarins.

IMO: If we were to follow the Chinese example of economics and apply MMT, the UK would bounce back after Brexit and the EU would collapse as we will have the World as our market on terms we control. No longer will we have to support farm subsidies for French farmers and subsidies for German Industry. Nor thankfully are we using the Euro as our currency that would make us subservient to the ECB.

Robin, in your opinion , had the result of the referendum been the other way would these " speculators" have driven the pound up ?
Or at least the pound would not have been where it now is ?


You simply don't get it do you because you are a peasant and you tell is you are a bigshot investor.

there is NOTHING at all within Britain's economic fundamentals or its trade that has caused the currency to drop. What has caused the currency to drop is sentiment. Also uncertainty and a lack of investor confidence caused by the mass hysteria, the media, remoaners, and the anti Brexiters.

If for instance the remainers rallied behind the brexiteers with grace and dignity, there would not be as much of a fall. It's people like you who have caused the fall as well as the media because it spooks the mum and dad investors from the markets.

BREXIT has not occured yet and when it does these things have a habit of correcting themselves and before you know it the Sterling will start to climb once again.

The key here is to get BREXIT over with as soon as possible. This is an imperative, It will be a disaster if this uncertainty continues for another 3 years like it has for 3 years till now. BOJO, is correct in setting the 31st of October deadline for BREXIT.

Even get a NO DEAL BREXIT under WTO criteria is just fine and Britain can still trade with the EU without any change for at least 2 years and maybe as much as 10 years.
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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby Paphitis » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:15 am

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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby miltiades » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:29 am

So General , according to you( you are always wrong) the British economy will thrive and Sterling will rise after Brexit and the pigs will start flying.
As a long time investor I have always believed that an investor should NEVER invest on sentiment but on realities. From your posts one can easily draw the conclusion that your head does not rule your actions but your prejudices rule. Remember " I hate Poooootin.more than ISIS" " the criminal EU" " Assad must go"
These are sentiments that clearly display prejudiced and not well balanced views.Sterling has fallen for one and only one reason. Brexit.
When selling my UK property etc, I initially considered converting to Euros but decided against and converted to US Dollars.
A good move that has saved me enough to keep me going for many years on fine wines.
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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby Paphitis » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:40 am

miltiades wrote:So General , according to you( you are always wrong) the British economy will thrive and Sterling will rise after Brexit and the pigs will start flying.
As a long time investor I have always believed that an investor should NEVER invest on sentiment but on realities. From your posts one can easily draw the conclusion that your head does not rule your actions but your prejudices rule. Remember " I hate Poooootin.more than ISIS" " the criminal EU" " Assad must go"
These are sentiments that clearly display prejudiced and not well balanced views.Sterling has fallen for one and only one reason. Brexit.
When selling my UK property etc, I initially considered converting to Euros but decided against and converted to US Dollars.
A good move that has saved me enough to keep me going for many years on fine wines.


I'm not a fortune teller.

What I can say is that Britain will be OK subject to it being a player on the international markets. If the global economy improves, Britain will do well. If the global economy hits a recession, we all struggle and so will Britain.

What I can also say with some authority is that with British Zeal, they will be a global economic player to be envied by most of the world. Britain has always been strong. It will remain strong. It will still produce Rolls Royce Engines. It will still have world class produce. It will still build Jaguar Cars. London will still remain a financial center.

Another thing I can say is that the sky will NOT fall down on the 1st of November and that Britain will still trade and can manipulate its own markets to suit its interests and that it could now negotiate trade deals with the USA, Canada, China, India, Australia and Brazil which it could not do beforehand on its own.

It can also guarantee its own independence from the ECB.

So yes, Britain will thrive and move foreword. I have no idea what Britain has to be jealous about anyway. It has an NHS. The rest of the EU do not. It's like America where the poor die on the streets. the old scaremongering that Britain will not be able to access medicines is nonsense when Brits have universal health coverage. A few years ago, Brits were being fed horse meet because of the EU. :roll:

Britain also has the best political and democratic system in all of Europe. they are lucky to have an institution like the Crown which have basically been a bedrock during the past 3 years of uncertainty. It's times like this where a country can actually fall back on something knowing it will not change. That there is a guardian standing over the democratic process and protecting the union of the country.

The uncertainty ends now Miltiades. In November it will all be over and Britain can move on. That will be a time to celebrate and move forward.

I don't wish any ill on any country, like Britain or any other country in the EU. But you got to admit, the EU bought this upon itself. They did not behave honorably in the past and they do not behave honorably to Britain and hence will pay a price for that.

Britain has made its decision and needs to move forward and protect the most valuable thing it has - it's Democracy and its people.
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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby cyprusgrump » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:44 am

No Deal has 17-point lead over stopping Brexit, poll finds

Westmonster wrote:A bombshell new Opinium poll has exposed how there is massively more public support for finally leaving the European Union on 31st October without a deal than cancelling Brexit. Remoaners once again exposed as a shrinking fringe amplified by Remainstream media.

The poll, carried out days ago, asked voters: “If Boris Johnson is unable to make changes to the Withdrawal Agreement that enables it to pass the House of Commons before October 31st, which of the following should he do?”

46% want to see a No Deal Brexit delivered at the end of October, whilst only 29% would want to see the UK’s EU exit cancelled. That’s a 17-point lead for a WTO Brexit compared to overturning the referendum result.
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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby miltiades » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:55 am

The vast majority of people are stupid anyway. Thats why !!
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Re: brexit not far away now

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:05 am

Milti:
Robin, in your opinion , had the result of the referendum been the other way would these " speculators" have driven the pound up ? Or at least the pound would not have been where it now is ?

I don’t know the answer to that .......... because it is speculative and subjective! But you did ask ........ :wink:

If you look at the trends going back before even the decision for referendum was made, the trend has gone both ways over time. It fell to a new average of around 1.15 immediately after the referendum but that was not because we had left the EU it was because of the opinions and overconfident indications from certain prominent people, who were speculating what they thought would happen immediately after a leave vote. The speculators reacted to the doom-and-gloom predictions ......... which, as we know, never happened. But the damage to Sterling was done!

I see currency speculation as the equivalent of accusing a man of being a Paedophile because someone else suggested they were based on their opinion. The victim gets pilloried based on speculation he is something that cannot and has not yet been proved but he has shown very few signs of being one, according to his mates at the rugby club!

Britain appears to have a strong and healthy economy with low unemployment so based on economic trend the outlook appears healthy. But this has not stopped the doom merchants from loudly peddling their gloomy predictions. THAT is what is hitting the pound in your pocket .......... not economics and not Brexit itself.

I say ‘appears’ because I don’t actually agree with that for the simple reason that 80% of the UK economy is based on finance and banking and the service sector with a mere shadow of its former manufacturing left ..... and IMO that is a system just heading for a disaster! Russia, China, Iran, many countries in SE Asia, Sth America and Africa are ditching the dollar based banking system and trading in sovereign currencies and also selling off US Bonds to buy gold. The price of gold has been controlled by the US for decades but they appear to have lost the absolute control they have had up to now.

So the UK has to do a lot to recover manufacturing industry and create jobs that in turn create wealth, not just swell the bank accounts of the few or inflate asset prices and stock market values ..... all of which are based on SPECULATION not wealth creation. That means new economic thinking. I almost choke on the thought but in certain instances, not all, I tend to agree with Paphitis' optimism ....... but he only gets 1 out of 10 for his presentation. :roll:

China already realised the need for changes a couple of decades ago or even longer, and this is why their economy is a threat to the US and the west in general. The Chinese government owns 80% of the banks, virtually controls the others and owns its Central Bank. They can directly fund research and development, entrepreneurs, start up ventures, the building of factories and infrastructure and the social system .......... without debt or inflation and with no interest to pay to private investors. A collapse of a particular project or factory does not mean massive job losses, they divert the labour and resources elsewhere and by buying bonds in their own industries, effectively subsidise their operation.

IMO: The UK should take a seriously look at changing the banking and financial systems to operate more on the lines of the Chinese economy ..... and it is not structurally that difficult to do, could almost happen overnight and the public would not see any immediate difference! In the longer term, like China, the benefits would become obvious.

That’s my take. :wink: :D
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