Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

As I have said, I would judge that as an attempt to pervert the will of the people. I don’t know how to make this clearer; we have a deal ..... WTO Rules ..... that was on the table from day one. This idea of NO DEAL was a scare mongering phrase, a tactic to make it seem like a catastrophe unless Teresa May got her deal through.

So when Parliament once again democratically blocks such a decision you will have no issue with that in terms of how that decisions should be made ?

No body is likely to seek my opinion!

Which does not change the reality that the decision HAS to be made and someone HAS to make it. All I am saying is given that the decision HAS to be made, then why not make it the way we have made every other decision in the last 500 years ? Are you saying we should not do it this way, the way we have made every other decision in the last 500 years, but some other way, simply because you personally know fuck all about it ?

[Robin Hood]

BTW: If you are reading this LR .... our mutual friend was not aware that Fractional Reserve Banking was actually now considered by the BoE not to be the case and Currency Creation was in fact the proven method.

That’s very unfair RH. As you’re well aware I’ve always said that if they want the Greek debt conundrum, the Italian economy, troubles at the ECB, BoE, IMF, WB sorted out, plus of course guidance on the likes of “Peoples’ QE” then they should stop all this messing about and get you in there.

Just as long as they don’t let you near any bananas.

I don't like bananas much so no danger there. BUT .... when Varoufakis explained to Christine Lagarde all about money creation ..... she just stared at him blankley, didn't open her mouth and didn't have clue what the hell he was talking about. Now SHE is the new head honcho of the ECB .... if she can stay out of jail.

So put me, Varoufakis, Richard Werner, Steve Keen and others who do understand the principals of MMT and we could be a winning team! Do you remember the classic Teresa May comment "There's no such thing as a money tree!" ..... then she used the money tree to create £1bn to bribe the DUP. The 'conspiracy' sites picked up on it but the MSM missed it!

[cyprusgrump]

At least one ardent Remainer gets it...

Lately, he has been enraging remainers – of which he is one – by saying: “There’s only one fucking thing worse than a fool who voted for Brexit, and that’s the rise of the cunts trying to get the vote overturned.”

“And people started calling me a Nazi!” he says. “I thought: ‘Really? A member of the Third Reich?’ Look, I think it’s ridiculous that we’re leaving. None of us were even qualified to vote. You ask a guy above a chippy in Bradford if we should leave Europe. ‘Yeah!’ But I still think if there’s a second referendum, as a nation, we’ll never recover. We have to come out because, no matter how ill-informed people were, you’re saying to them their vote doesn’t count. And its symptomatic of shutting people’s opinions down.”

[erolz66]

Bananas! Having read this I can only say it is another good reason for leaving the EU and their army of bureaucratic form fillers behind.

You may consider classification of such things as 'madness' and specifically 'EU madness'. Yet there are those that want such classifications. Not retail buyers, but whole sale buyers and sellers. They want such classifications because it allows them to buy and sell at a wholesale level and know exactly what they are buying without having to physically see the goods and if they do not get what they paid for, there is a legal means of demonstrating that. None of this is in any way EU specific. The UK before EEC entry had its own such classifications, for the same reasons and will again after it leaves. Just we will have to now duplicate all the effort and cost of drawing up such classifications, having already paid a contribution to do such , shared amongst 27 other nations, as part of our EU membership fees.

I am rather stunned that having shown that you did believe something that was not true as the result of a decades long propaganda campaign, carried out via the MSM, this does not seem to concern you at all ?

[erolz66]

At least one ardent Remainer gets it...

Lately, he has been enraging remainers – of which he is one – by saying: “There’s only one fucking thing worse than a fool who voted for Brexit, and that’s the rise of the cunts trying to get the vote overturned.”

“And people started calling me a Nazi!” he says. “I thought: ‘Really? A member of the Third Reich?’ Look, I think it’s ridiculous that we’re leaving. None of us were even qualified to vote. You ask a guy above a chippy in Bradford if we should leave Europe. ‘Yeah!’ But I still think if there’s a second referendum, as a nation, we’ll never recover. We have to come out because, no matter how ill-informed people were, you’re saying to them their vote doesn’t count. And its symptomatic of shutting people’s opinions down.”

I am NOT one of the cunts trying to get it over turned. I am one of the cunts trying to make sure we implement it by the same means and procedures we have used to implement everything else for the last 500 years. That 90% of your discussion with me as someone who is not one of the cunts Gallager refers to , is based on the premise that I am such a cunt, indicates alot to me.

[erolz66]

Do you remember the classic Teresa May comment "There's no such thing as a money tree!" ..... then she used the money tree to create £1bn to bribe the DUP. The 'conspiracy' sites picked up on it but the MSM missed it!

Johnson is behaving like it is a magic money Forrest. In party political terms this is very dangerous. Earning a reputation as the party of fiscal responsible is a long and hard process. Loosing it is not. Many Tories, MP's, party members and voters know this.

I think that there is a very high probability that, personal career wise, Johnson is fucked what ever happens. That even if he does get a deal that can pass HoC or effect a no deal exit, in pretty short order the Tory party will be saying to him 'Hey we like you, you are a nice guy, a funny guy and well done getting brexit though but you can fuck off now'

[Kikapu]

At least one ardent Remainer gets it...

Lately, he has been enraging remainers – of which he is one – by saying: “There’s only one fucking thing worse than a fool who voted for Brexit, and that’s the rise of the cunts trying to get the vote overturned.”

“And people started calling me a Nazi!” he says. “I thought: ‘Really? A member of the Third Reich?’ Look, I think it’s ridiculous that we’re leaving. None of us were even qualified to vote. You ask a guy above a chippy in Bradford if we should leave Europe. ‘Yeah!’ But I still think if there’s a second referendum, as a nation, we’ll never recover. We have to come out because, no matter how ill-informed people were, you’re saying to them their vote doesn’t count. And its symptomatic of shutting people’s opinions down.”

I agree with him, which is why upon leaving the EU, there can be a new referendum to re enter the EU or not. This is the area the remainers should focus on and not try to prevent in the implementation of Brexit. Totally respectful of the democratic system. If it passes and we re enter, then the leavers can ask for another referendum to leave the EU. Fair is fair.

[erolz66]

I also see a possible scenario where by Parliament does find a way to force Johnson to ask the EU for an extension and the EU refuses leading to the UK leaving on a no deal basis as the result of the EUs unilateral decision that was contrary to the UK national governments expressed desire.

If this were to occur the irony of the likes of CG getting his desire because the EU gave it to him, in the face of the failure of our national Parliament to be able to do so, when the thing he desires is to 'take back control' from the EU to return it to our national government, would not be lost on me.

[cyprusgrump]

At least one ardent Remainer gets it...

Lately, he has been enraging remainers – of which he is one – by saying: “There’s only one fucking thing worse than a fool who voted for Brexit, and that’s the rise of the cunts trying to get the vote overturned.”

“And people started calling me a Nazi!” he says. “I thought: ‘Really? A member of the Third Reich?’ Look, I think it’s ridiculous that we’re leaving. None of us were even qualified to vote. You ask a guy above a chippy in Bradford if we should leave Europe. ‘Yeah!’ But I still think if there’s a second referendum, as a nation, we’ll never recover. We have to come out because, no matter how ill-informed people were, you’re saying to them their vote doesn’t count. And its symptomatic of shutting people’s opinions down.”

I agree with him, which is why upon leaving the EU, there can be a new referendum to re enter the EU or not. This is the area the remainers should focus on and not try to prevent in the implementation of Brexit. Totally respectful of the democratic system. If it passes and we re enter, then the leavers can ask for another referendum to leave the EU. Fair is fair.

Excellent!

I don't think you'll find any Leavers that are against re-visiting the question at some point in the future...

[erolz66]

If it passes and we re enter, then the leavers can ask for another referendum to leave the EU. Fair is fair.

In such a scenario people will only be able to get such a referendum if they are able to cost, or seriously threaten to cost, one of the major parties the ability to win power if it is not granted. To effectively 'blackmail' them in to doing so. There would have to be an 'anti farrage' figure that would have to set up a new 'anti UKIP/Brexit' party that demonstrated that cost in multiple elections for all this to happen (imo). Even then it would probably also require a GE where a main party had to go in to a coalition in order to govern and have a leader of that do 'political calculation' that offering such a referendum would secure them exclusive power in the next GE and be wrong about what the result of such would be.

That is pretty much how the first referendum was secured.

The idea that any UK government would ever give the people a referendum for any other reason that it was politically expedient for them, themselves, is a very naive one imo. History shows this imo.