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[Maximus]

I agree, and the eu does do this.

But turkey is reneging on the ratification of the readmission agreement, now she is reneging on a blackmail to implement that readmission agreement with another blackmail.

in reality, turkey will or may or could create problems for the eu if she doesn’t get her way.

What do you think the eu should do then?

[erolz66]

What do you think the eu should do then?

Just keep doing what she has been doing already up till now. She should not change that 'strategy' until Turkey does not just threaten to do x, but actually does it. Then of course a new strategy should be adopted but imo not before then.

[Maximus]

What do you think the eu should do then?

Just keep doing what she has been doing already up till now. She should not change that 'strategy' until Turkey does not just threaten to do x, but actually does it. Then of course a new strategy should be adopted but imo not before then.

Like what?

[erolz66]

What do you think the eu should do then?

Just keep doing what she has been doing already up till now. She should not change that 'strategy' until Turkey does not just threaten to do x, but actually does it. Then of course a new strategy should be adopted but imo not before then.

Like what?

Not sure, or certainly not as sure as I am that they should keep doing what they have been doing until Turkey pulls the trigger on the threats. Am open to suggestions.

[B25]

I agree, and the eu does do this.

But turkey is reneging on the ratification of the readmission agreement, now she is reneging on a blackmail to implement that readmission agreement with another blackmail.

in reality, turkey will or may or could create problems for the eu if she doesn’t get her way.

What do you think the eu should do then?

The Eu should cut Turkey off completely. Stop all Turkish Airlines landing in the EU, stop imports/exports to from Turkey, when Turkey sends the refugees, to round them up and ship them back and a whole host of other things.

This would make Turkey behave and very pronto. Right now Turkey is calling all the shots because the EU and the west are spineless cowards and have no balls to take such action.

How long do you think Turkey would last 1 week? 2 maybe?

[Maximus]

The eu could create a humanitarian corridor in western turkey for its national security, to accommodate the refugees.

Like what turkey is trying to do in Syria.

They could put the refugees to work in any commercial interests they have in turkey, under Greece’s administration to help them recover from the financial crisis and recover the costs of such an action.

It would be like a moat before they could reach the “flood gates”.

Maybe open the floodgates to the Turks in Europe to be deported back to turkey. I know, I know, this is illegal but never mind that, turkey would be acting on her threats of blackmail and acts illegally anyway.

Gawd, what an awful mess turkey would be creating.

[erolz66]

The eu could create a humanitarian corridor in western turkey for its national security, to accommodate the refugees.

Like what turkey is trying to do in Syria.

So you mean with force and against the consent of Turkey ? Not an option I favour. Certainly not as a 'first response'.

Maybe open the floodgates to the Turks in Europe to be deported back to turkey. I know, I know, this is illegal but never mind that, turkey would be acting on her threats of blackmail and acts illegally anyway.

I am not and never have been a 'fan' of 'two wrongs make a right' arguments (and there are a lot of 'legal' issues with your corridor idea as well btw, though that is not why they would not be my first choice response).

Compared with your suggestions I would say I prefer B25's, things like looking at Turkey's ongoing membership of the customs union, at least before putting the lives of EU service personnel at risk as well as the lives of the 'innocents' that would and always are a 'collateral effect' of such military operations.

[Maximus]

I’m not being that serious, just for the record.

More, trying to expose Turkish hypocrisy.

Perhaps I failed.

However, it is clear, turkey is a threat to the eu, as well as peace and stability in the wider region.

She has no legitimacy as a state and should be treated accordingly.

The eu should do everything within its power to protect itself and its member states borders.

[erolz66]

More, trying to expose Turkish hypocrisy.

If you say to me Turkey is hypocritical I would not disagree at all. However I do not think there is a state anywhere in the world ever that has not also been 'hypocritical'. So then it is just a matter of degrees. In terms of 'judging' state hypocrisy in comparative states, I recognise the phenomenon that the 'default position' or the normal natural tendency is to see , notice , care about such hypocrisy in others more than in oneself and thus when I do such a judgement I do also try and 'factor in' this natural tendency. It also seem relevant to me to be clear about the difference between things like a nation, a state, a states government and a states governments executive when considering such things. I do think that in a comparative terms , Turkey under this current AKP government executive, and even more so under its 'phase B' stage of existence (for me any analysis of AKP rule has to recognise the 'story of two halves' element of that rule) is more hypocritical than 'most' other states it could be compared with.

She has no legitimacy as a state and should be treated accordingly.

Well for me the idea that a states legitimacy as a sovereign state is determined by the 'illegality' or degree of such from its current or past government executives, is just not how the world works, ever has worked and quite possibly ever could work. If you are going to define a states legitimacy in such terms I am not sure there is or ever has been a 'legitimate state' ever and certainly not a 'big one'. In this sense I guess I am closer to a RH 'world perspective' (as far as I understand such) than say a Paphits one. I think all states have do and will act 'illegally' at times in their own self interest and I actually see some correlation between how 'big' (in terms of power) a state is and how much it does this. That to some degree bigger states are bigger because they have demonstrated a greater willingness to act illegally than 'smaller' states.

The eu should do everything within its power to protect itself and its member states borders.

no disagreement there but again you could replace Eu with any nation or union of nations , even Turkey, and this would still be 'true' imo.

[Maximus]

This is like an invasion, without the use of military force.

The eu’s own principles and laws are the weapons that others are trying to use against her.