Cyprus-Forum.com

[cyprusgrump]

Here is a question for you Mr. Remainer

Do you think the UK will actually leave the EU?

I think the odds are that it will. Maybe 80/20 in that ball park. I also think that biggest risk to it not happening is actually that minority of extreme leavers - NOT ALL THOSE WHO VOTED LEAVE - but a subset of them that are determined to try and get THEIR preferred form of Brexit only and nothing else by any means necessary and with no regard for if that form that they want has majority support of the people or not or the damage getting it might do to others of the UK in general. That if they had or were willing to compromise at all on their maximal desire as to the FORM of Brexit they would accept, with no regard for what the majority want in terms of FORM of Brexit, then we would in fact already have left the EU by now.

FFS!

So you believe that the UK will Leave the EU, yes...?

FFS I gave you my answer already. I think in most likely hood it will but that is not certain, from what I can see. I even gave you an estimate as to what the chances are , in my view. What the fuck more do you want from me ?

Question : Will it rain in Dunstable tomorrow ?
Reply : I think there is 80% chance it will rain.
Question : Just answer the question. Will it rain tomorrow.
Reply : I told what I think already.

This is pathetic imo.

Good! I'm glad you think it is pathetic, you now realise how I ( and I suspect others) feel reading your interminable posts!

[Londonrake]

Here is a question for you Mr. Remainer

Do you think the UK will actually leave the EU?

I think the odds are that it will. Maybe 80/20 in that ball park. I also think that biggest risk to it not happening is actually that minority of extreme leavers - NOT ALL THOSE WHO VOTED LEAVE - but a subset of them that are determined to try and get THEIR preferred form of Brexit only and nothing else by any means necessary and with no regard for if that form that they want has majority support of the people or not or the damage getting it might do to others of the UK in general. That if they had or were willing to compromise at all on their maximal desire as to the FORM of Brexit they would accept, with no regard for what the majority want in terms of FORM of Brexit, then we would in fact already have left the EU by now.

FFS!

So you believe that the UK will Leave the EU, yes...?

FFS I gave you my answer already. I think in most likely hood it will but that is not certain, from what I can see. I even gave you an estimate as to what the chances are , in my view. What the fuck more do you want from me ?

Question : Will it rain in Dunstable tomorrow ?
Reply : I think there is 80% chance it will rain.
Question : Just answer the question. Will it rain tomorrow.
Reply : I told what I think already.

This is pathetic imo.

Erolz. You're giving the distinct impression of getting "frayed". Perhaps we should declare Thursdays a "non Brexit" day and all tend our gardens.

[erolz66]

* Not really a Remainer obviously, "just trying to understand"....

This also I find pathetic if I am honest and frank. I voted remain. I have never denied that and been totally honest about it. The idea that I have ever claimed otherwise is sheer fantasy. As is the idea that just because I voted to remain and still think that leaving is a bad decision for me personally and the country generally therefore I must have and can only have an agenda of trying to stop the UK leaving by any means and with no regard for democracy or any thing else. My 'answer' about 'seeking understanding' was to the question 'why bother having these discussions at all, they will not change anything or anyone'. That you now try and make out that my response was an attempt to say 'I am not really a remainer (someone who voted leave)' is to me a gross distortion and I find it impossible to believe that you have not made this distortion with the specific intent to distort.

I believe there are 'extreme' remainers. People who voted leave who only have an interest in stopping us leaving and with no concern for democracy or anything else other than trying to achieve the end goal of us not leaving. There are also people who voted remain who are NOT extreme. That even though the vote did not go the way they wanted they respect it and the need for it to be implemented who can also have concerns and opinions on how we leave. I believe there are also 'extreme' leavers. People who not only want the UK to leave the EU but want that done in a singular and specific way only and no other and who will do and say anything with no regard for democracy or anything else other than trying to achieve the end goal they want. Both are equally 'bad' in my book. They are the same. The only difference is the ability each of these extreme end of the spectrum have had to make a material difference to the outcome to date. Extreme leavers, those who will accept no other form of leaving than the one they want, regardless of if a majority of MPs OR the people also want to leave that way or some other way, have in my assessment had more ability, more means, by which in pursuing that agenda they have had a material difference to date.

As far as I understand you CG you appear to believe that there is no such thing as an 'extreme' leaver but that every single person who voted remain, is and must be an 'extreme remainer' who must be seeking to stop Brexit by any means fair or foul.

[erolz66]

Erolz. You're giving the distinct impression of getting "frayed". Perhaps we should declare Thursdays a "non Brexit" day and all tend our gardens.

You do not understand how it is frustrating to be asked a question, to give the answer and then be told FFS answer the question in response to having answered the question ?

Any time someone goes to the trouble to post in a thread, only to say nothing about the issues the person they are replying to is talking about or addressing the points they have tried to make but only to question the motives, mental state or the like of the person they are replying to, I ask myself 'why are they choosing to do this' ?

[cyprusgrump]

You do not understand how it is frustrating to be asked a question, to give the answer and then be told FFS answer the question in response to having answered the question ?

Welcome to our world! That is exactly what you do over and over and over Zzzzzzz....

[Londonrake]

Erolz. You're giving the distinct impression of getting "frayed". Perhaps we should declare Thursdays a "non Brexit" day and all tend our gardens.

You do not understand how it is frustrating to be asked a question, to give the answer and then be told FFS answer the question in response to having answered the question ?

Any time someone goes to the trouble to post in a thread, only to say nothing about the issues the person they are replying to is talking about or addressing the points they have tried to make but only to question the motives, mental state or the like of the person they are replying to, I ask myself 'why are they choosing to do this' ?

Ohh no! I'm being sucked into the Brexit vortex! Edgar Alan Poe

Frustration abounds. A six month "in yer face" everyday campaign. Followed by a simple question with assurances by those most on high of implementation. Do you want to stay in the EU or leave? The largest electoral event in the history of the UK (yawn!!). A majority vote to leave. The greatest mandate ever delivered to a UK government (yawn!!). Followed by 3 years of the sort of (sorry!) mind numbing, repetitive obfuscation that your good self promotes, plus of course parliament and the HoL, which are clearly majority remain, doing everything possible to overturn that result.

Personally, I've pretty much heard it all. It's quite straightforward. We want out - sort it.

Tell me again............................. about frustration.

[erolz66]

Frustration abounds. A six month "in yer face" everyday campaign. Followed by a simple question with assurances by those most on high of implementation. Do you want to stay in the EU or leave? The largest electoral event in the history of the UK (yawn!!). A majority vote to leave. The greatest mandate ever delivered to a UK government (yawn!!). Followed by 3 years of the sort of (sorry!) mind numbing, repetitive obfuscation that your good self promotes, plus of course parliament and the HoL, which are clearly majority remain, doing everything possible to overturn that result.

Personally, I've pretty much heard it all. It's quite straightforward. We want out - sort it.

Tell me again............................. about frustration.

Frustration abounds indeed. However am I personally responsible for the things you list above as frustrating you ? Is CG personally responsible for the thing I claimed was frustrating to me ? See any difference ?

I know you believe that the reason that we have deadlock to date is down to Parliament being made up of individuals who themselves on majority voted to remain. I understand that this appears to make sense at 'first glance' and why for you from your position it is an 'attractive belief'. I Just do not think it actually stands up to scrutiny if you really want to know if it is true or not. Or more accurately if you really want to know if this is the singular truth or reason as to why we have had deadlock, or the singular truth / reason that 'makes a difference' in terms of where we are now and where we might have been. It is just so clear and obvious to me that another reason we have had deadlock to date is that some of those MP's who themselves voted to leave are also determined that the UK not only leaves but does so only in the way THEY want and not in any other way. It is so clear, to me at least, that this also has played some part, that the blank denial that it has not done so at all, in any way, to me just indicates someone who does not care what is true or not. An argument that this cause of some of the deadlock is not the material one, that I could and do accept is possible. But the idea this has played no part whatsoever or even no material part what so ever, is one that I think can only come from someone who just does not care what the truth actually is if that in any way challenges what they want to believe.

[cyprusgrump]

Frustration abounds. A six month "in yer face" everyday campaign. Followed by a simple question with assurances by those most on high of implementation. Do you want to stay in the EU or leave? The largest electoral event in the history of the UK (yawn!!). A majority vote to leave. The greatest mandate ever delivered to a UK government (yawn!!). Followed by 3 years of the sort of (sorry!) mind numbing, repetitive obfuscation that your good self promotes, plus of course parliament and the HoL, which are clearly majority remain, doing everything possible to overturn that result.

Personally, I've pretty much heard it all. It's quite straightforward. We want out - sort it.

Tell me again............................. about frustration.

Frustration abounds indeed. However am I personally responsible for the things you list above as frustrating you ? Is CG personally responsible for the thing I claimed was frustrating to me ? See any difference ?

I know you believe that the reason that we have deadlock to date is down to Parliament being made up of individuals who themselves on majority voted to remain. I understand that this appears to make sense at 'first glance' and why for you from your position it is an 'attractive belief'. I Just do not think it actually stands up to scrutiny if you really want to know if it is true or not. Or more accurately if you really want to know if this is the singular truth or reason as to why we have had deadlock, or the singular truth / reason that 'makes a difference' in terms of where we are now and where we might have been. It is just so clear and obvious to me that another reason we have had deadlock to date is that some of those MP's who themselves voted to leave are also determined that the UK not only leaves but does so only in the way THEY want and not in any other way. It is so clear, to me at least, that this also has played some part, that the blank denial that it has not done so at all, in any way, to me just indicates someone who does not care what is true or not. An argument that this cause of some of the deadlock is not the material one, that I could and do accept is possible. But the idea this has played no part whatsoever or even no material part what so ever, is one that I think can only come from someone who just does not care what the truth actually is if that in any way challenges what they want to believe.

Someone like you then...?

[erolz66]

Someone like you then...?

Evidence ?

You think if I just wanted to believe stuff , regardless of actual reality, I could not or would not claim to believe that all the many 'irregularities' around the Brexit vote in terms of UK election law, the pending cases still ongoing, the whole Cambridge Analytic links to leave.eu campaign mean that the original referendum itself was not morally or legally valid anyway ? Yet DO I do this ? Make this argument ? State this belief ?

So now I have given just one of the many things that I could choose to 'believe' if all I was trying to do was justify a pre held position or desire with no regards for actual reality and that I do not do and have not done, how about you give an actual example of where you think my stated beliefs indicate that I just do not care about truth if that challenges what I want or would like to believe ? Just one would do for now. Or will you just stick with your 'sound bite' without any need to even try and justify the truth of it ? I think the later is more likely. Care to prove me wrong in that 'guess' ?

[cyprusgrump]

Someone like you then...?

Evidence ?

Every repetitive 'extreme laden' post you have made on the subject...