Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Are you so fucking stupid !! Are you seriously suggesting that the little Englanders and the geriatrics knew what they were voting for??
Will you stay away from this thread. The UK ain't your country stupid and for that matter neither is Cyprus. Now fuck off before I lose my temper.

[Robin Hood]

Having read the replies what seems to be the problem is the terminology. It isn’t a ‘No Deal’ it is a departure on WTO rules.

Those casting their votes in the Referendum were simply given an option to leave the EU or not ..... a simple YES or NO. The result was a majority YES to leave and by inference that was on WTO terms as there was no negotiated position at the time.

Then we tried to ‘negotiate’ better terms but we had the wrong person doing the negotiating and facing a belligerent bunch of EU Hierarchy who got awkward, started making demands and threats. Instead of the PM of the day telling them ...... we are willing to discuss some points but if you (EU) won’t discuss anything sensible, ...... she then showed her incompetence by grovelling and making it clear she was negotiating from a position of weakness.

Don’t particularly like BJ, in my book as the OP says he is a clown and no more capable of getting a different deal than May was.

In my working life twice I was involved it what is termed a ‘HOT CUT OVER’ ..... basically you swapped an old control system out for a new one whilst the plant was still running. It took several weeks to do but was meticulously planned in advance ...... not by just one person but every department involved. On the day the operation started we followed the plan and apart from the odd hic-up, in both cases it worked.

In my naivety of thinking politicians actually knew what they were doing, this is how I believed leaving the EU would be! The EU and the UK working together and progressing to the end point, with minimal upset. Surely something in the interests in both parties.

It looks like that is not going to be the case ...... so, hold onto your hats it’s going to be a bumpy ride!

[Robin Hood]

Miltiades:

Are you so fucking stupid !! Are you seriously suggesting that the little Englanders and the geriatrics knew what they were voting for??

Did you? Were you aware of the weaknesses and dangers incumbent with a European elite that were hell bent on a political union of states to form a Federal States of Europe which was designed for the exclusive benefit of the few?

[cyprusgrump]

Having read the replies what seems to be the problem is the terminology. It isn’t a ‘No Deal’ it is a departure on WTO rules.

Those casting their votes in the Referendum were simply given an option to leave the EU or not ..... a simple YES or NO. The result was a majority YES to leave and by inference that was on WTO terms as there was no negotiated position at the time.

Yes!

More importantly perhaps, a 'Deal' means an FTA with the EU... A 'Deal' doesn't mean staying in bits of the EU and therefore being tied to the ECJ, accepting free movement, etc.

[erolz66]

No they don't! You show me a law that states that parliament can change the default position of NO DEAL BREXIT.

The law that states that IS article 50. Because it does not say that once triggered it's terms can then not be changed by democratic means and agreement, then the default is that they can be so changed. That has to be the default position because if it were not then every single treaty between anyone in the world ever, that did not explicitly state the parties can legally and democratically by agreement change that agreement, would exist in perpetuity and be unchangeable. I am just as well ask you so show me the law that says the 1975 referendum result can be overturned. Usual nonsense from you then.

[miltiades]

Miltiades:

Are you so fucking stupid !! Are you seriously suggesting that the little Englanders and the geriatrics knew what they were voting for??

Did you? Were you aware of the weaknesses and dangers incumbent with a European elite that were hell bent on a political union of states to form a Federal States of Europe which was designed for the exclusive benefit of the few?

Yes Robin. Im strongly in favour of stronger ties within Europe. Peace has been with Europe for over 70 years now. I believe in the united Europe
Nationalism along with religions are the cancers of humanity. I also know that our currency has been declining since the referendum result. Not because of speculators but because the markets are neither nationalistic, religious or patriotic. The markets react either favourably or not.
The reaction to the UK leaving the world's largest trading block has been negative.
The vast majority of leavers, in my opinion, have brushed aside economics since they just hate Europe ie foreigners coupled with the fact that Germany IS the leading nation in the EU, this is strongly resented by the little Englanders.

[cyprusgrump]

Yes Robin. Im strongly in favour of stronger ties within Europe. Peace has been with Europe for over 70 years now.

Nonsense...

NATO. It is NATO that has kept peace in Europe, not the EU.

And given that we haven't been in for the whole 70 years, it won't matter if we leave anyway...

[miltiades]

A United Europe guarantees that there will not be another war amongst European nations. NATO has kept the peace between Russia and the USA.
Use any logic , but you have none , so just carry on singing Rule Britannia........
I can envisage a scenario a few years down the road with the UK out of Europe and in dire financial difficulties where the " popular" press blames Europe for asphyxiating our economy and calling for a ....war. isn't this what Hitlerd did ?
By the way, how is that pound in your pocket mate, I would hurry up and convert it if I were you.

[cyprusgrump]

A United Europe guarantees that there will not be another war amongst European nations. NATO has kept the peace between Russia and the USA.
Use any logic , but you have none , so just carry on singing Rule Britannia........
I can envisage a scenario a few years down the road with the UK out of Europe and in dire financial difficulties where the " popular" press blames Europe for asphyxiating our economy and calling for a ....war. isn't this what Hitlerd did ?
By the way, how is that pound in your pocket mate, I would hurry up and convert it if I were you.

Don't let facts get in the way of your irrational rants eh?

Europe is becoming less united by the day - thanks to the EU.

Oh and I think you lose the thread due to Godwin's Law...

[erolz66]

Parliament has no such right to impede the people’s choice.

Who has the right to decide how we exit ? Parliament ? The people ? Or Johnson by fiat decision ? Who is the highest democratic power ? You will say the people have already had that say on how we will exit. I will say that is BS. So what is the best way to truly know if you are right or I am as to what that will is , that does not and can not possibly involve trampling over the peoples right to decide ? You ask them. That is no only the best way it is the only way if you have any REAL regard for the supremacy of the will of the people. You do not ask them what they have already been asked in 2016. You ask them do you support a no deal exit, yes or no. Nothing else. Of course this will not guarantee that you will get what you want regardless of the will of the people, so this is not an acceptable solution to you.

You can not subvert the genuine will of the people by asking them. It is literally impossible. You can only subvert that will by NOT asking them.

The people have that right. The question asked was clear.

Thee people were asked if they wanted to remain or leave the EU. That's clearcut and to me the default here means NO DEAL!

The people knew exactly what they voted for.

We both claim to believe and respect that the people are the ultimate source of 'legitimate democracy'. That what they want by majority should be what they get and no one and nothing should deny them getting that. One of us is sincere and one of us is a lying piece of hypocritical shit.

You claim that there can be no doubt at all that when the people voted in 2016 all those who voted leave (or 93% of them if you want to get pedantic), knew and understood that they would then have no democratic say indirectly via their elected representatives or directly, in how we left, understood the default position and were able to realistically know what the chances were that this default position would be the one that we ended up with. That they also knew and understood that if we were unable to get a deal agreed that Parliament would approve and if Parliament also sought to stop a no deal exit, it could and would just be suspended in order to do so. These are the kind of 'hoops' you have to jump through for your claim 'they knew exactly what they voted for' to be able to be logically consistent with the situation right now. I think that is nonsense and so clearly so but forget that.

The real 'kicker' here is someone, anyone who really believed in the principal and practice that the 'people are the ultimate legitimacy in a democracy' rather than just being a hypocritical lying piece of shit pretending to believe in the democratic supremacy of the people, would in a scenario where there was ANY POSSIBLE DOUBT that an action might not be the actual real will of the people, might not be what a majority of them would choose when asked, would not just support asking them directly to be absolutely sure , they would demand it. That you do not do this but actively do everything to prevent,which just by coincidence I guess, would guarantee you get what you want, says it all in terms of the sincerity of your claim to believe in the supremacy of the will of the people over everything else. That I do say that if there is even the slightest possible doubt that an action might not be an actual reflection of what a majority of the people actually want then they should be asked, even though that does not only not guarantee me getting what I want, it does not even make it any more possible, if you claim what I want is to not leave the eu at all, nor does it even guarantee that I get what I want in terms of preference for leaving , namely no a no deal, also say a lot.

Yeah we both claim to believe in the supremacy of the will of the people over all else, and one of us is sincere and one is a lying hypocritical piece of shit and guess what I do not think it is me.