Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

The basic question was simply, stay or go ffs.

how they go was for the politicians to decide, but going was what was voted for.

Had politicians been able to agree by majority how we leave I would accept that. If we change those politicians via a GE and they can agree by majority how we leave I will accept that. What I will not accept is a minority at the most extreme end of the spectrum of the debate choosing how we leave when we know that way does NOT have majority support of politicians and almost certainly does not have majority support of the people. I do not accept that because I am democrat.

(I moved this from the land of the free thread because it had got very off topic there)

No doubt you'll still be trotting out this same old falsehood long after we have actually left!

And no doubt should Parliament block no deal on 31st October and we have a GE and end up with another Parliament that also will not allow a no deal exit, you will still be insisting that the public voted for a no deal exit in the referendum and seek to block any and all attempts to implement any other kind of exit whilst also blocking any attempt to ask the public directly and explicitly if they support a no deal exit or not. All whilst blaming those who voted remain for you not getting what you want.

I don't think that will happen...

But if there is a GE it is clear that the numbers are on our side (see below), the new parliament will be a pro Brexit parliament.

What I think will happen is there will be a Boris Bounce...

Parliament (well, Remainer MPs) will realise that calling a vote of no confidence or a GE will be like Turkeys voting for Christmas - many of them will lose their seats...

So that will make a No Deal Brexit the default, as previously voted by parliament.

However...

I think the EU will realise that instead of sitting on their hands and letting a Remainer parliament overturn Brexit they are heading for a No Deal Brexit and will offer a deal at the last moment...

I also think that ardent Remainers like yourself will be whinging about it for years to come... How wonderful!

i'm with you on that. This is exactly my assessment as well, which is why a no confidence vote isn't an option for the remoaners.

I too am also looking forward to the salty tears of the likes of Erolz and Militiades.

[Paphitis]

Yeah because saying you will accept any decision that commands either a majority in Parliament or from the People directly but not one that does not command such support from either - that is pretty much the definition of 'undemocratic' .

But you don't do you...? And I suspect you never will...

Because the majority voted Leave and yet you will never, ever respect that vote because you wanted (and expected) Remain to win...

And you can keep posting the same old stuff for the next three years (or longer) but the bottom line remains...

We voted Leave and ardent Remainers like yourself don't accept the democratic vote... How sad you are!

I have said I accept any decision on brexit that commands either a majority in Parliament or from the people. What more can I do ? That your only way to 'respond' to that is to call me liar pretty much says it all from where I am sitting.

then why have the referendum when the Parliament can overturn in your eyes any result they don't like.

So, if Australia has a referendum to become a Republic and abolish the Monarch, then Parliament can simply overturn this by voting against a Republic because they can come up with any excuse such as believe the new format of Government is likely to be less stable or whatever other reason they choose than their current Crown Monarchy British model which has actually served them very well throughout history.

This must be democracy 101 according to Turks!

[Paphitis]

The Brexiteers cannot blame the remainders for making sure all legal and political issues with the referendum has gone through the process. It is very clear that the majority voted for Brexit and no one is challenging the results, but if the Brexiteers cannot take the Brexit vote across the finish line, then it is not the fault of the remainders. You can blame the system all you like. Blame the parliament all you like. Blame the EU all you like. In the end, blame yourselves for not planning a clear path in advance of the referendum, because it is very apparent now, that the referendum results had many “road bumps” before it can be taken across the finish line. If you didn’t see the “road bumps” in advance of the referendum, we’ll, that’s just too bad for the Brexiteers and lucky for the remainders. It has already cost the jobs of two PMs and maybe the third soon. It may cost the breakup of the UK and have a devastating affect on the economy of the UK.

It is obvious that Boris is taking instructions from Trump how to be a dick in dealing with the EU, with his arrogance in making demand to renegotiate or else. Or else what, Boris? The EU gave the UK at least two extensions for the Brexit deadline and the EU did not blink of the threat of no deal Brexit. Who does Boris think he is that his demands will be met by the EU? If Boris has the balls to match his arrogance, he should state now that the UK is not going to wait until October 31st to leave, even without a deal, and just leave the EU without a deal tomorrow. Then he will find out if the EU will run after him for a deal, or the EU will tell Boris not to let the door hit him in the ass on the way out. I think of the latter. Boris can then deal with the Parliament afterwards whether what he did was legal or not as the EU doesn’t care if the UK leaves with a deal or leaves without a deal. They couldn’t careless and Boris is going to find this out the hard way.

Keep on listening to Trump for advice, Boris!

With all fairness, the EU has never been threatened with a NO DEAL BREXIT. It has under Boris Johnson and this could force their hand in action because I do not believe a NO DEAL BREXIT is in their interest.

In addition, they have also stated very clearly that the negotiations can't go on forever and they themselves have stated that Britain must leave on 31st of October. Article 50 can not be pulled back or stopped. Therefore, BREXIT is actually a foregone conclusion according to the EU.

Now, if Trump really is helping then good on him. Somehow I doubt he is helping other than offering BJ some moral help because its obvious Trump likes him.

The Anglosphere will come into play LATER - in that they will band together and negotiate free trade deals with the UK which will undoubtedly be of some assistance to Britain.

[miltiades]

In the meantime folks, Madam Sterling ain't at all happy with Britain's economy right now and we are still in the EU.
Trading now, MMR, at just over 1.09 euros.
Only a complete idiot with not one iota of economic sense , can suggest that Britain will be better of outside the world's largest trading block. The pound folks is on a downward trend, the only way to reverse it is to have a second referendum following the likely GE , the trouble is which party will then be in power!! Fuckrage and his Brexshit party will challenge the conservatives in every seat, so folks it looks as if from a Clown PM we could find our selves debating the .....enormous qualities of none other than Corbin the weasel!! What a fuck8ng mess, what a shame that such a great nation is slowly and surely commiting suicide.

[Paphitis]

In the meantime folks, Madam Sterling ain't at all happy with Britain's economy right now and we are still in the EU.
Trading now, MMR, at just over 1.09 euros.
Only a complete idiot with not one iota of economic sense , can suggest that Britain will be better of outside the world's largest trading block. The pound folks is on a downward trend, the only way to reverse it is to have a second referendum following the likely GE , the trouble is which party will then be in power!! Fuckrage and his Brexshit party will challenge the conservatives in every seat, so folks it looks as if from a Clown PM we could find our selves debating the .....enormous qualities of none other than Corbin the weasel!! What a fuck8ng mess, what a shame that such a great nation is slowly and surely commiting suicide.

have a referendum to find out our care factor!

And when I say care factor, I mean about the short term fluctuations of one of the greatest currencies on the planet which was created by 3 years of uncertainty more than anything.

We do not believe Britain is committing suicide. that is your alarmism and defeatism crying out for help like a spoilt kid who didn't get what he wanted because of the referendum.

Time to suckle on your pacifier.

[cyprusgrump]

In the meantime folks, Madam Sterling ain't at all happy with Britain's economy right now and we are still in the EU.
Trading now, MMR, at just over 1.09 euros.
Only a complete idiot with not one iota of economic sense , can suggest that Britain will be better of outside the world's largest trading block. The pound folks is on a downward trend, the only way to reverse it is to have a second referendum following the likely GE , the trouble is which party will then be in power!! Fuckrage and his Brexshit party will challenge the conservatives in every seat, so folks it looks as if from a Clown PM we could find our selves debating the .....enormous qualities of none other than Corbin the weasel!! What a fuck8ng mess, what a shame that such a great nation is slowly and surely commiting suicide.

It is funny, if a Brexiteer points out anything, anything at all good in the country or economy Remainers shout, "BUT WE HAVEN'T LEFT YET!!!"

And yet at the same time they hold the notion that anything they consider to be bad is, "BECAUSE OF BREXIT!!!"

Funny...

[erolz66]

then why have the referendum when the Parliament can overturn in your eyes any result they don't like.

The UK Parliament has not (yet) overturned the referendum result, even though they have the legal right to do so if not a moral one and even though a large majority of MP's themselves personally did not vote to leave. What they UK Parliament has done is to block a no deal crash out exit on the 29th March and did so only at the very last minute they were able to do so. That is they have reflected exactly the wishes of the UK population on the issue of how we should leave the EU where there is not a majority of the population who support this form of exiting the EU. One of us here believes that the will of the people should be respected full stop and one of us believes that it should be respected only when the result is one they like but should be ignored when it is a result they do not like.

This must be democracy 101 according to Turks!

This is in fact democracy 101 according to the UK.

Turks ? What has this got to do with Turks ? It is the UK Parliament doing these things not the Turkish one. I am dual nationality UK and Cypriot not Turkish. Just about the only connection any of this has to Turkey and Turks would be Johnson having a Turkish great grand father. So if anything, the fact that he is a PM put in to power not by the people of the UK but by less than 1% of them, heading up a minority government and is attempting to implement the referendum result in a way that does not have the majority support of the UK population whilst seeking to deny Parliament and ability to do their job of representing the will of the people, who do not on majority support a no deal exit, could be attributed, if you were a racist anti Turk, to his Turkish ancestry.

[miltiades]

Perhaps YOU know something I don't, is there another reason other than Brexit that has driven Sterling down so much ?
Could it be that the financial world is steadfastly against Brexit?
Which ever way you interpret Sterling's fall the end result is that as a result of Brexit.the pound is losing against the Euro, the US dollar and all other currencies.
I hope you took my advice yesterday and changed your pounds to Euros .

[Paphitis]

Perhaps YOU know something I don't, is there another reason other than Brexit that has driven Sterling down so much ?
Could it be that the financial world is steadfastly against Brexit?
Which ever way you interpret Sterling's fall the end result is that as a result of Brexit.the pound is losing against the Euro, the US dollar and all other currencies.
I hope you took my advice yesterday and changed your pounds to Euros .

yeh there are lots of reasons such as the uncertainty of BREXIT hanging over everyone;s head without clear direction.

But it's really funny as CyprusGrump has indicated how your side cherry pick. Attributing positive economic news to the fact that BREXIT hasn't occurred yet and blaming bad news on BREXIT even though it hasn't happened yet.

[Paphitis]

then why have the referendum when the Parliament can overturn in your eyes any result they don't like.

The UK Parliament has not (yet) overturned the referendum result, even though they have the legal right to do so if not a moral one and even though a large majority of MP's themselves personally did not vote to leave. What they UK Parliament has done is to block a no deal crash out exit on the 29th March and did so only at the very last minute they were able to do so. That is they have reflected exactly the wishes of the UK population on the issue of how we should leave the EU where there is not a majority of the population who support this form of exiting the EU. One of us here believes that the will of the people should be respected full stop and one of us believes that it should be respected only when the result is one they like but should be ignored when it is a result they do not like.

This must be democracy 101 according to Turks!

This is in fact democracy 101 according to the UK.

Turks ? What has this got to do with Turks ? It is the UK Parliament doing these things not the Turkish one. I am dual nationality UK and Cypriot not Turkish. Just about the only connection any of this has to Turkey and Turks would be Johnson having a Turkish great grand father. So if anything, the fact that he is a PM put in to power not by the people of the UK but by less than 1% of them, heading up a minority government and is attempting to implement the referendum result in a way that does not have the majority support of the UK population whilst seeking to deny Parliament and ability to do their job of representing the will of the people, who do not on majority support a no deal exit, could be attributed, if you were a racist anti Turk, to his Turkish ancestry.

So therefore, if Australia is to have a referendum to become a Republic, 150 MPs in Australia's Federal Parliament and 75 Senators have the moral duty to overturn it and prevent it from happening at all because the type of referendum was not discussed?

OK that sounds interesting!

I disagree completely, but am still intrigued about your betrayal of very basic democratic principles.