Cyprus-Forum.com

[cyprusgrump]

Clearly parliament, our elected representatives should be the ones managing our departure.

However, what is clear is that the majority of MPs would prefer to stay in the EU - that is why we haven't left yet...

Thankfully, Boris has made it clear that we will be Leaving with or without a deal. I'm happy either way...

And if he doesn't deliver there will be a GE, we'll elect a parliament that wants to Leave and we will Leave with or without a deal.

The whole deal/no deal thing is patently a ruse. It’s never been about any deal. That’s just a way of pretending to “honour the 2016 referendum result” (as both major parties promised to in their 2017 election manifestos) but doing so with a crocodile tear, faux altruistic concern for the result. In reality, it’s simply about not wanting to leave the EU. Until you get a simple, unavoidable decision a). No deal. B). Revoke Article 50 these people will continue to hide behind obfuscating excuses and verbal chaff.

It doesn’t matter how many times you post you will still get the same convoluted questions/answers to what was a very simple question, with no ifs, buts or qualifications. One which resulted, given all the effort put in by the big guns, in an inconceivable result. A vote to leave the EU. The largest mandate in the UK’s electoral history.

You’ll just keep going around in circles as they go on and on. It obviously makes them feel better.

There’s still an unwillingness to acknowledge the obvious, whatever happens the UK is never going back to the way things were pre-2016. Things like the inexorable rise of Farage’s single issue party, from non-existence a few months ago to becoming the largest body in the E.U. Parliament, will be waved away with a few statistics. Delusion.

I wish I could uptick your post!

[erolz66]

I'm perfectly happy Leaving the EU with a trade deal... Why wouldn't I be...?

May's deal was leaving, with out committing to staying in a customs union but to thrash out a free trade deal. You are not, as understand it, happy with this because YOU think it is not brexit or brexit enough. A deal where we leave and commit to thrash out remaining in a customs union with the EU you are not happy with, as I understand it, because you think it is not brexit or brexit enough. So all well and fine to say you would be happy to leave with a deal, but to date every deal proposed you just claim, that is not brexit. You define Brexit as meaning leaving the way you want. Any and all other ways of leaving you reject on the basis that you do not think they are what the people voted for but refuse the option of asking the people if they agree with you or not.

[erolz66]

The whole deal/no deal thing is patently a ruse.

Your whole 'piece' is as far as I can see based on a premise that only those who voted remain in the referendum are 'insincere' in what they have said and done since the result. I think that is is just partisan rubbish myself. I think there are those who voted remain who have acted insincerely since the vote and there are those who have not done so just as there are those who voted leave who have acted insincerely since the vote and those who have not.

[cyprusgrump]

May's deal was leaving, with out committing to staying in a customs union but to thrash out a free trade deal.

May's 'deal' wasn't leaving... it wasn't even called leaving it was the Withdrawal Agreement the clue really was in the name...

Despite her weasel words May has always been in favour of Remain; no surprise then that her WA was BINO and contained the unnecessary 'backstop' which could have tied us into the EU forever.

You are not, as understand it, happy with this because YOU think it is not brexit or brexit enough. A deal where we leave and commit to thrash out remaining in a customs union with the EU you are not happy with, as I understand it, because you think it is not brexit or brexit enough. So all well and fine to say you would be happy to leave with a deal, but to date every deal proposed you just claim, that is not brexit. You define Brexit as meaning leaving the way you want. Any and all other ways of leaving you reject on the basis that you do not think they are what the people voted for but refuse the option of asking the people if they agree with you or not.

So you are just making it up as you go along then...?

I've never read so much nonsense in my life!

I couldn't possibly have made my position clearer - you are just being deliberately obtuse... I hope that is the reason for your complete lack of understanding of what I have said anyway!

Look, it is quite simple and I'll go over it again for you.

1) It was a binary vote and we voted to Leave
2) Leaving means leaving all of the institutions of the EU - Single Market, Customs Union, ECJ, etc. and stopping our contributions to the EU budget.
3) We're going to continue to trade with the EU so a FTA (or a 'deal' if you prefer) would make sense for both sides.
4) In the absence of a FTA we'll leave on WTO terms and no doubt at some point in the future a FTA will come about.

And the first thing we have to do is implement the result of the referendum because that is how democracy works.

[erolz66]

May's 'deal' wasn't leaving... it wasn't even called leaving it was the Withdrawal Agreement the clue really was in the name...

Despite her weasel words May has always been in favour of Remain; no surprise then that her WA was BINO and contained the unnecessary 'backstop' which could have tied us into the EU forever.

According to you May's deal was not leaving. That is the point. You seem to think you have some right to be the sole arbiter of if it was leaving or not. Well you have no such right. Had May's deal passed the the UK would have left the EU on March 29th, in every sense that makes any sense. We would no longer legally be members. We would no longer have a seat at the table (the only real definition of if a country is in or out of the EU that makes any logical sense). We would no longer be liable for contributions to the EU budget as members. We would no longer be obliged to allow EU citizens to live and work in the UK without restriction. We would be free to negotiate FTA agreements with other countries. We would no longer be subject to ECJ rulings as a member state. There would be no way of joining again without having to accept the Euro, Schengen, not having a special rebate. In every sense we would have left the EU. That you continue to insist not just that this would NOT have been leaving AND insist that every single person who voted leave in 2016 must also agree with you that this is not leaving, just shows to me how 'extreme' your position really is.

2) Leaving means leaving all of the institutions of the EU - Single Market, Customs Union, ECJ, etc. and stopping our contributions to the EU budget.

Says who ? Sure you can say that as your opinion but you want to say it as if it is the indisputable view of everyone who voted leave in 2016 as well.

[cyprusgrump]

May's 'deal' wasn't leaving... it wasn't even called leaving it was the Withdrawal Agreement the clue really was in the name...

Despite her weasel words May has always been in favour of Remain; no surprise then that her WA was BINO and contained the unnecessary 'backstop' which could have tied us into the EU forever.

According to you May's deal was not leaving. That is the point. You seem to think you have some right to be the sole arbiter of if it was leaving or not.

No, according to pretty much the whole of the political establishment...

2) Leaving means leaving all of the institutions of the EU - Single Market, Customs Union, ECJ, etc. and stopping our contributions to the EU budget.

Says who ? Sure you can say that as your opinion but you want to say it as if it is the indisputable view of everyone who voted leave in 2016 as well.

No, according to common sense.

If you choose to Leave something you Leave, you don't stay half in...

Did the ballot paper have a 'Leave the European Union but stay in some bits of it really' Option? No. You're wrong.

Leave or Remain were the options, if we'd voted 'Remain in the European Union' would you have expected that we would have a debate about which bits we could Leave? No, don't be ridiculous...

[miltiades]

It was designed so that low intellect plonkers , such as you, would not find it difficult to understand.
By the way, how is the Pound in your pocket ? Not that you give a toss, just as long as we have ....our country back !! Rule Brit ......

[Paphitis]

It was designed so that low intellect plonkers , such as you, would not find it difficult to understand.
By the way, how is the Pound in your pocket ? Not that you give a toss, just as long as we have ....our country back !! Rule Brit ......

Shut up!

[Londonrake]

We all know full well - admit it or not - if the referendum result had been 52/48 in favour of staying in the EU that would have been it. There wouldn’t have been any of the crap we’ve witnessed/experienced over the past 3 years, which has been a pathetic display of rank hypocrisy and “I’ll squeem ‘n’ I’ll squeem until I’m sick!” petulance.

A lot of people are very angry about what’s happened since June 2016. That isn’t going away any time soon and if we don’t leave the E.U. - meaningfully - there will be a day of reckoning.

[erolz66]

May's 'deal' wasn't leaving... it wasn't even called leaving it was the Withdrawal Agreement the clue really was in the name...

Despite her weasel words May has always been in favour of Remain; no surprise then that her WA was BINO and contained the unnecessary 'backstop' which could have tied us into the EU forever.

According to you May's deal was not leaving. That is the point. You seem to think you have some right to be the sole arbiter of if it was leaving or not.

No, according to pretty much the whole of the political establishment...

It is easy to say "pretty much the whole of the political establishment" agrees that May's deal was not Brexit. You saying it does make it true.

No, according to common sense.

Yeah common sense that goes along the lines of

Turkey is in the customs union and is NOT in the EU.
Norway is in the single market it is NOT in the EU.

Therefore common sense says

If the UK is in the customs union that means it is still in the EU
If the UK is in the single market that means it is still in the EU

That is NOT what I consider common sense.

, if we'd voted 'Remain in the European Union' would you have expected that we would have a debate about which bits we could Leave? No, don't be ridiculous...

No more than I would accept the claim that had the vote been remain, this would have meant that we had voted to join the Euro, Schengen, give up our rebate etc etc. According to you if you choose to be IN something, you don't stay half in. This is exactly what you are trying to do in reverse.