Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

It's got nothing to do with Trumpesque rhetoric.

Calling the EU 'criminal' is directly from the Trump rhetoric play book.

It's about getting BREXIT done and dusted and after that Britain can seek a Canada Deal and the EU can refuse all they like if they want to. That's when there is a cost to them also.

No one has done more to stop the UK leaving the EU than those who claim that should it leave the EU and remain in a customs union, it will not have left the EU at all and that everyone who voted leave in 2016 believes this as well. A nonsense notion , shown by the example of Turkey.

They are criminal. the Austerity inflicted upon Greece, Spain, and Italy was devastating. In Cyprus they went one step further and stole funds from depositors.

Great then. We agree that Britain can BREXIT by 31st of October, deal or no deal.

Then both sides can move forward to forge a Canada type deal if they want to.

Problem solved!

See! I told you everything will be ok in the end after the dust settles.

[miltiades]

You also told us that Assad will be removed Along with other such shit.
You also called Trump an idiot whereas now he is the apple of your eye.
You also stated that you Hate Putin more than you hate ISIS.You also posted your own tombstone on this forum. Inconsistency is your signature.

[Jerry]

So how much does the EU cost us each year? According to this source the 1% of GDP it costs us is far outweighed by the benefits of membership.If the pie chart is remotely accurate then the whinging Brexiteers simply don't have a case. https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/eu-me ... a-fortune/

Personally, I think thirteen Billion Pounds a year (and rising) is not an insignificant sum.

Moreover, I'd prefer thirteen Billion Pounds a year to be spent by people I can vote for (or not)...

Fortunately, 17.4 million people in the UK agree with me...

You obviously failed to understand this bit " the Confederation of British Industry estimates that EU membership is worth £3000 a year to every British family — a return of nearly £10 for each £1 we pay in.

As for being spent by people you vote for, whenever the people you voted for are in opposition ..... get it? Besides you can vote for our EU MPs, you may have voted for our representative on the 28 member European Council (currently Kipper Johnson) and one of the EU Commissioners will hold his position because our democratically elected government sent him to Brussels. Cameron nominated Sir Julian King as our Commissioner, he currently holds the security portfolio.

How do you know why 17.4 million people agree with you? People voted for a multitude of reasons; the highest Leave vote was in Boston where, surprise surprise, more than 13% of the population are EU nationals.

Yes, the CBI's forecasts have been so accurate with regard to EU membership haven't they?

What a joke! £10 for every £1 we pay in???

Not my facts, the CBI's, feel free to quote a reliable source that disproves them. As for the 10 x figure, I think you misunderstand; it's the multiplier effect of actually belonging to the EU rather than cash being paid directly to the UK. The UK has a bigger economy because of the workers from the EU. For example,

Summarised HM Revenue and Customs in their report:
“In 2013-14, EEA nationals paid £12.1 billion more Income Tax and National Insurance than they took out in tax credits and Child Benefit.” Your thirteen billion ££s is almost matched by income their tax payments alone and if you add in other taxes like VAT that they almost certainly pay you can see a net benefit already.

Still nothing to say about paragraphs two and three?

[erolz66]

And if every EU nett contributor got back 10 x of what was paid in where would the EU get all the extra money from, like the €4,453.9 million Pre-Accession Assistance for Turkey for instance...? And the money they give to 'poor' EU members...?

The 'extra money' comes from the increase in trade and increased GDP for all members of the EU that results from removing barriers to such trade and from inherent efficiencies in doing things once centrally rather than 28 times separately.

The UKs tax income is partly 're distributive'. That is it takes taxes raised from richer areas of the UK and spends it on poorer areas, like wales and depressed regions in the north of England. The EUs tax income is also partly 're distributive' as well. The key difference is at the national level such 're distribution' is a political decision, with parties promising funds for regions where they need votes etc. The EU's 'redistribution' is not political in that way, it is 'numerical'. Wales gets re distributive EU funds based on the 'numbers' and wales and other poor region of the UK get this money regardless of who they vote for or do not vote for nationally.

[erolz66]

Great then. We agree that Britain can BREXIT by 31st of October, deal or no deal.

We can only leave on the 31st of October without a deal if parliament consents by majority, either directly or by default (by doing nothing until then). That is how democracy works in the UK and has done for hundreds of years or if the EU refuse to grant an extension should parliament force the government to ask for one.

Johnson has claimed the chance of a no deal exit are a million to one. Well he is just like you, big mouth but not prepared to put his money where his mouth is. Would he take a £1000 bet with me, and ill be generous with him I'll only ask for 100,000 to one odds not the million to one he claims to believe is true. Of course he would not because he does NOT believe what he says. If he BELIEVED it he would jump at the chance of taking such a bet at 1/10th the odds he claims to believe are true.

[cyprusgrump]

Not my facts, the CBI's, feel free to quote a reliable source that disproves them. As for the 10 x figure, I think you misunderstand; it's the multiplier effect of actually belonging to the EU rather than cash being paid directly to the UK. The UK has a bigger economy because of the workers from the EU. For example,

Well, we've tried it for 40 years and yet, and yet given the option to leave more than half of the UK population chose to do so...

So once we leave we can see if you and the CBI (who take funds from the EU) were right or not... And if you are right we can have another vote in 40 years and go back...

We're leaving get over it!

[cyprusgrump]

And if every EU nett contributor got back 10 x of what was paid in where would the EU get all the extra money from, like the €4,453.9 million Pre-Accession Assistance for Turkey for instance...? And the money they give to 'poor' EU members...?

The 'extra money' comes from the increase in trade and increased GDP for all members of the EU that results from removing barriers to such trade and from inherent efficiencies in doing things once centrally rather than 28 times separately.

The UKs tax income is partly 're distributive'. That is it takes taxes raised from richer areas of the UK and spends it on poorer areas, like wales and depressed regions in the north of England. The EUs tax income is also partly 're distributive' as well. The key difference is at the national level such 're distribution' is a political decision, with parties promising funds for regions where they need votes etc. The EU's 'redistribution' is not political in that way, it is 'numerical'. Wales gets re distributive EU funds based on the 'numbers' and wales and other poor region of the UK get this money regardless of who they vote for or do not vote for nationally.

And Turkey gets high speed rail systems and €4,453.9 million Pre-Accession Assistance whatever anybody votes for...

The Welsh must be thrilled....

[erolz66]

The government tried to implement what the people decided and they have so far failed because extreme brexiters claim that what they voted for (to leave) is actually something that was not on the ballot at all and have blocked all attempts to implement the will of the people expressed in the referendum unless it is a form of leaving that they want and that there is NOT a democratic majority in support of, in parliament or in the population as far as we can know that.

This is utter nonsense and you know it...

Blimey, you accuse me of lying!

We voted to leave and Remainer PM May offered the WA instead... which was rejected by all parts of the house on several occasions... And you know why?

Because the WA is not Brexit.

Saying it in 200 point letters does not make it any less untrue.

Are you SERIOULSY trying to claim that parliament rejected May's deal because it was 'not Brexit' ? You are seriously trying to claim here the reason why so many Labour Mp's voted against May's WA is because they did not think it was Brexit (enough) ? All the Lib Dem MPs that voted against it was because it was not Brexit ? The SNP, Plaid the Green. The ONLY people who voted against it 'because it was not brexit' was the MINORITY of extreme leavers. That you try and claim their singular reason for rejecting May's deal is the reason ALL MP's who rejected is just typical of the way you distort reality to fit your desire. This is no different from the claim as fact that all who voted leave in 2016 consider that to leave the EU but remain in a customs union is to not have left at all, with no evidence to support that other than you claiming they all believe that and regardless of the glaring inconsistency that no one believes, yourself included, that Turkey is in the EU.

[erolz66]

And Turkey gets high speed rail systems and €4,453.9 million Pre-Accession Assistance whatever anybody votes for...

Turkey only gets such pre accession assistance because our democratically elected leaders decided to open entry negotiations with Turkey and the democratically elected MEP's ratified such a decision. Any single countries leader could have vetoed that decision. If you or the welsh want that to change then elect in people who can and will change it, as your national leader and or as you MEPs. You might not like the decisions made on your behalf by those you have democratically elected but hey that is how democracy works a lot of the time.

[cyprusgrump]

The government tried to implement what the people decided and they have so far failed because extreme brexiters claim that what they voted for (to leave) is actually something that was not on the ballot at all and have blocked all attempts to implement the will of the people expressed in the referendum unless it is a form of leaving that they want and that there is NOT a democratic majority in support of, in parliament or in the population as far as we can know that.

This is utter nonsense and you know it...

Blimey, you accuse me of lying!

We voted to leave and Remainer PM May offered the WA instead... which was rejected by all parts of the house on several occasions... And you know why?

Because the WA is not Brexit.

Saying it in 200 point letters does not make it any less untrue.

Are you SERIOULSY trying to claim that parliament rejected May's deal because it was 'not Brexit' ? You are seriously trying to claim here the reason why so many Labour Mp's voted against May's WA is because they did not think it was Brexit (enough) ? All the Lib Dem MPs that voted against it was because it was not Brexit ? The SNP, Plaid the Green. The ONLY people who voted against it 'because it was not brexit' was the MINORITY of extreme leavers. That you try and claim their singular reason for rejecting May's deal is the reason ALL MP's who rejected is just typical of the way you distort reality to fit your desire. This is no different from the claim as fact that all who voted leave in 2016 consider that to leave the EU but remain in a customs union is to not have left at all, with no evidence to support that other than you claiming they all believe that and regardless of the glaring inconsistency that no one believes, yourself included, that Turkey is in the EU.

You lose all credibility when you cite 'extreme leavers'...

There is nothing extreme about the 17.4 million ordinary people that used their democratic vote to leave the EU...

Nor is there anything extreme in those MPs that chose to represent the views of those that voted them into the job...

I'll remind you once again of the numbers...