Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

Is Turkey in the EU ?

If they were, everyone will EXIT!

Turkey is in the customs union and is not in the EU. You agree with this (I think)

Yet you then try and argue that should the UK leave the EU and remain in the customs union , then the UK will not have left the EU , will still be in the EU in all but name only and what is more not only do you think this you claim to know as FACT that every single other person that voted leave also thinks this, despite the glaring inconsistency.

[Paphitis]

Is Turkey in the EU ?

No, obviously not, why are you obsessed by it...?

The obsession is yours not mine. It is the obsession that should the UK leave the EU yet remain in the customs union it will still be in the EU and the instance that very single voter who voted leave in the referendum also thinks exactly the same as you do - that leaving the EU whilst remaining in the customs union is to not leave at all. It is clearly nonsense. Turkey is in the customs union. It is not in the EU. The UK could leave the EU and be in the customs union and it wil still not be in the EU, just as Turkey is not in the EU.

Is Canada...? Because they seem to have a FTA with the EU which is apparently not available to the UK without free movement, ECJ, etc. Etc...

We can go for a Canada deal. What is not possible is to have a deal like the one with Canada without that requiring more barriers to trade with the EU than we currently have. It just is not possible. Goods from Canada to the EU (and visa versa) will still have to pass customs. Even as far as 'no tariffs' goes the Canada / EU deal covers only a fraction of goods that being a member of the EU covers and does not cover services at all. Nothing wrong with a Canada like deal. Much wrong with making out that a Canada style deal can and will give us the same level of trade benefit we currently have with the EU. It can not and will not. That is just reality. In reality May's deal was leading to a Canada style deal but that was not enough for the extreme brexit faction.

You will never get a Canada deal as a beggar. Britain will be in limbo for years.

This is not the way to be able to negotiate with these criminals. they will tear you apart and throw you to the wolves like they have done to other member States.

[erolz66]

For me any time the CBI and the TUC same exactly the same thing as each other, I take notice.

[Paphitis]

If Britain wants a Canada or Norway deal, it needs to leave the EU.

It will eventually get it, because this is about money and capitalism and the EU will want a FTA with post BREXIT Britain.

Right now, the EU are playing hard ball and Britain the beggar is a gift that keeps on giving. When that stops, the game changes completely.

[cyprusgrump]

So how much does the EU cost us each year? According to this source the 1% of GDP it costs us is far outweighed by the benefits of membership.If the pie chart is remotely accurate then the whinging Brexiteers simply don't have a case. https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/eu-me ... a-fortune/

Personally, I think thirteen Billion Pounds a year (and rising) is not an insignificant sum.

Moreover, I'd prefer thirteen Billion Pounds a year to be spent by people I can vote for (or not)...

Fortunately, 17.4 million people in the UK agree with me...

You obviously failed to understand this bit " the Confederation of British Industry estimates that EU membership is worth £3000 a year to every British family — a return of nearly £10 for each £1 we pay in.

As for being spent by people you vote for, whenever the people you voted for are in opposition ..... get it? Besides you can vote for our EU MPs, you may have voted for our representative on the 28 member European Council (currently Kipper Johnson) and one of the EU Commissioners will hold his position because our democratically elected government sent him to Brussels. Cameron nominated Sir Julian King as our Commissioner, he currently holds the security portfolio.

How do you know why 17.4 million people agree with you? People voted for a multitude of reasons; the highest Leave vote was in Boston where, surprise surprise, more than 13% of the population are EU nationals.

Yes, the CBI's forecasts have been so accurate with regard to EU membership haven't they?

What a joke! £10 for every £1 we pay in???

Oh what a good idea, let's just dismiss opposing views as a joke instead of backing up yours with reliable facts.

Nothing to say about paragraphs two and three I see.

Clearly, your 'facts' are a joke...

If we really got back 10 x what we paid in we'd be desperate to pay more every year...

And if every EU nett contributor got back 10 x of what was paid in where would the EU get all the extra money from, like the €4,453.9 million Pre-Accession Assistance for Turkey for instance...? And the money they give to 'poor' EU members...?

[cyprusgrump]

For me any time the CBI and the TUC same exactly the same thing as each other, I take notice.

Well there is your problem right there...

You are listening to organisations which are almost fanatically in favour of the EU for their own selfish reasons... Organisation that benefit from EU funds...

And you take their views as more important and carrying more weight than the great British public who voted in favour of leaving the EU in a binary choice of Leave or Remain. The public that actually have those same funds taken out of their wages and paid to the EU so they can bribe the CBI and TUC (and BBC, etc.)...

[erolz66]

You will never get a Canada deal as a beggar. Britain will be in limbo for years.

This is not the way to be able to negotiate with these criminals. they will tear you apart and throw you to the wolves like they have done to other member States.

You pseudo macho Trumpesque rhetoric does not impress me.

The reality is that the UK's negotiating position is worse than it should have been is all down to decision the UK made not ones the EU imposed on it. Our negotiating position would have been stronger if we had called a referendum at a time of EU wide treaty change and renegotiation and not called a time that was defined by narrow party political reasons and not nation interest.

Our negotiating position would be stronger if after we had the vote we had not rushed in to triggering article 50 before we had found agreement amongst ourselves as to what we wanted to replace EU membership with. After the vote when the EU said we can not talk about the future until you trigger article 50, we should have said , if we cared about national interest and having the best negotiating position possible, then we will stay as reluctant members, block and veto everything we legally can, until you change your mind. The reason why we did not do this and why we rushed in to triggering article 50 lies way more at the feet of the extreme leave camp than any where else. This is how Greece got the EU to accept that the RoC could join the EU regardless of if there was a settlement first or not.

[Paphitis]

You will never get a Canada deal as a beggar. Britain will be in limbo for years.

This is not the way to be able to negotiate with these criminals. they will tear you apart and throw you to the wolves like they have done to other member States.

You pseudo macho Trumpesque rhetoric does not impress me.

The reality is that the UK's negotiating position is worse than it should have been is all down to decision the UK made not ones the EU imposed on it. Our negotiating position would have been stronger if we had called a referendum at a time of EU wide treaty change and renegotiation and not called a time that was defined by narrow party political reasons and not nation interest.

Our negotiating position would be stronger if after we had the vote we had not rushed in to triggering article 50 before we had found agreement amongst ourselves as to what we wanted to replace EU membership with. After the vote when the EU said we can not talk about the future until you trigger article 50, we should have said , if we cared about national interest and having the best negotiating position possible, then we will stay as reluctant members, block and veto everything we legally can, until you change your mind. The reason why we did not do this and why we rushed in to triggering article 50 lies way more at the feet of the extreme leave camp than any where else. This is how Greece got the EU to accept that the RoC could join the EU regardless of if there was a settlement first or not.

It's got nothing to do with Trumpesque rhetoric.

It's about getting BREXIT done and dusted and after that Britain can seek a Canada Deal and the EU can refuse all they like if they want to. That's when there is a cost to them also.

What isn't ok is begging and asking for a deal before BREXIT because the EU is clearly going to exploit this weakness and take Britain for a ride.

What this is is common sense and Trump knows how to make a deal.

[erolz66]

Well there is your problem right there...

You are listening to organisations which are almost fanatically in favour of the EU for their own selfish reasons... Organisation that benefit from EU funds...

And you take their views as more important and carrying more weight than the great British public who voted in favour of leaving the EU in a binary choice of Leave or Remain. The public that actually have those same funds taken out of their wages and paid to the EU so they can bribe the CBI and TUC (and BBC, etc.)...

Look any time cats and dogs (or capitalists and communists, or Turks and Greeks or or or ) were to say exactly the same thing on a given issue I would take notice because that is an atypical scenario without much or any precedent. It is not rocket science.

[erolz66]

It's got nothing to do with Trumpesque rhetoric.

Calling the EU 'criminal' is directly from the Trump rhetoric play book.

It's about getting BREXIT done and dusted and after that Britain can seek a Canada Deal and the EU can refuse all they like if they want to. That's when there is a cost to them also.

No one has done more to stop the UK leaving the EU than those who claim that should it leave the EU and remain in a customs union, it will not have left the EU at all and that everyone who voted leave in 2016 believes this as well. A nonsense notion , shown by the example of Turkey, even for the person saying it but to then claim they also know as fact every single other person who voted leave in 2016 also thinks this ridiculous thing as well, well what other label for someone like that is there other than an 'extremists' ?