Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

I was using the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Corporation) figures. You’d think they’d get it right.

Then again, when it comes to getting reliable accounting stats, I know where I wouldn’t be inclined to go.

EU budget: Who pays most in and who gets most back? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318

So, given Milti’s figures are correct, it seems they won’t miss the UK’s money so much after all.

BTW. Interesting how many get more back than they pay in. I (so it was probably wrong) read some time ago that the UK’s GDP was greater than the combined totals of 19 EU countries. I imagine either someone would have to up their contributions (chances of Germany/France agreeing?) or people will need to tighten their belts and get used to receiving much less. I doubt it would impact upon Brussel’s famous profligacy though.

I you sure they are as reliable as the Clinton News Network (CNN)?

[erolz66]

If the figures do not suit your narrative then of course the figures must be wrong. Just as any figures that do suit your narrative must by definition be accurate.

[Londonrake]

If the figures do not suit your narrative then of course the figures must be wrong. Just as any figures that do suit your narrative must by definition be accurate.

Quid pro quo.

Given Auntie's famous neutrality on matters EU (that's a joke ) you'd think they'd prefer the other set. It more suits their "narrative" . Either way, the UK's contribution isn't really what you would call insignificant and the loss of such a country is a disaster for the EU and its plans.

If you want to see why mine and so many others opinion has hardened on this matter. Why it's turned in essence into a very nasty, bitter, albeit bloodless war, then I commend you to read Milti's posts. In my experience they're not atypical. In fact, I've read a great deal of that sort of stuff over the past 3 years. I know quite a lot of people who voted leave, and I've yet to meet one that fits his descriptions. Conversely, I've known a similar number of pro-remain people and a surprising amount haven't had a bloody clue about the EU, or its workings. Frankly they couldn't give a shit about the Federation but voted remain purely for status quo reasons. The largest group of all though have been those who simply couldn't be assed to vote in the referendum. Some of whom are among those making the most indignant noise about it now. Particularly in demanding a second "Peoples'" vote.

Sorry Milti. This is probably the one thing Hood and I agree upon. IMHO we're fairly typical leavers. You've met us both and know that we don't remotely resemble the profile that you've expended so much contemptuous comment on.

Nice cherry pickin' one liners.

[erolz66]

If you want to see why mine and so many others opinion has hardened on this matter. Why it's turned in essence into a very nasty, bitter, albeit bloodless war, then I commend you to read Milti's posts. In my experience they're not atypical. In fact, I've read a great deal of that sort of stuff over the past 3 years. I know quite a lot of people who voted leave, and I've yet to meet one that fits his descriptions. Conversely, I've known a similar number of pro-remain people and a surprising amount haven't had a bloody clue about the EU, or its workings. Frankly they couldn't give a shit about the Federation but voted remain purely for status quo reasons. The largest group of all though have been those who simply couldn't be assed to vote in the referendum. Some of whom are among those making the most indignant noise about it now. Particularly in demanding a second "Peoples'" vote.

Are there those who voted leave who are ignorant ? Of course there are, just as there are those who voted remain who are ignorant. Does that mean that all those who voted leave are ignorant ? Of course it does not just as it does not mean all those who voted remain are ignorant. Are there those who voted remain (or leave) who are unwilling or unable to hear, see or believe anything other than what they want to hear see or believe ? Of course there are just as there are who are not like this. I could go one replacing 'ignorant' or 'unable to hear' with any number of things. Racist is about the only one of those things that does not follow this same pattern. It is hard to imagine that someone who IS racist would ever vote any way other than for leave. Does this mean all those who voted leave are racist ? Of course it does not.

So as far as I understand you on this point your 'complaint' seems to be that 'remainers' lump all 'leavers' in to one group and ascribe to them things like 'racist motivations' and 'ignorance' and the like and this 'upsets' you because you as a 'leaver' are not these things. I get it. I understand your frustration. However my 'sympathy' towards you in this regard is directly related to the degree to which you yourself do or do not do the same in reverse. Lumping all 'leavers' in to one group and ascribing negative attributes to all those who voted remain in the referendum regardless of their individual behaviour. I am afraid from where I am sitting you, as an individual, are not scoring very well on 'not doing to others the thing you complain you do not like being done to you' and as such my sympathy for your complaint is reduced accordingly.

The bottom line for me is that there are only two possible ways that implementing the referendum vote via a no deal exit can have 'democratic legitimacy'. One is for a majority of MP's to support such a means of exit, with the democratic legitimacy being the people vote for their MP's and the MP's vote on no deal exit or not. Such a majority of MP's does not currently exist in Parliament. Thus the only other way such a means of implementing the result of the referendum vote via a no deal exit could be considered democratically legitimate would be to have a referendum on that specific question. Thus for me those that argue that the referendum result means we must leave without a deal even though there is not a majority or MP's that support such a way of exiting the EU and explicitly without asking the people directly if this is what they want are not people who believe in democracy, they are those that just want to get what they want regardless of the requirements of democratic legitimacy. They are in short in my book clear hypocrites. It is not rocket science as far as I am concerned.

[Lordo]

MarkTwain.JPG

i love it when people claim eu has got nasty since the brexit vote. far from it, eu has been very reasonable. parliament would have voted for the deal if the back stop was left to the brits to decide as to when they can stop it.

i got news for you brexiters, the good friday agreement pre-dates brexit and stands infront of you like a rock the size of the moon. it really has nothing to do with the eu except the eu could not sign an agreement that in some way contradicted it because it is international law and eu has no authority over it.

just in case you do not realise who are the people who have to agree with it. i am afraid roi and sinn fein have to agree with it too. even if eu managed to get roi to accept the removal, can the eu get sinn fein to do the same. not likely. we are about to lose northern ireland to the irish. ironically the dup are voting for this outcome. perhaps they are doing it deliberately to actually keep us in. i can smell a double bluff there. and of course by voting for the government they get to keep the 1 billion they were given.

in any case eu made it perfectly clear before the vote that without freedom of movement we cannot have free-trade. it did not stop brexiteers claiming that we would get the free-trade deal we want and in fact our deal will be better than the deal they have amongst themselves. they forgot to add that pigs will also fly in our direction. now thats a plus for my christian friends, it means free food right.

now this was doubly made clear before the vote when switzerland declared they would be removing freedom of movement and they were sent a short message as to te consequences of such action. they would lose all the facilities that had with the eu.

of course were are stil being told that we are the 5th largest economy in the world and they are terrified to lose our trade. figures speak for themselves, our trade with the eu is 56%. our economy would be devestaed at a no-deal brexit. their trade with is 16%. you can see how terrified each side should be.

but of course it is not just figures, actions speak even louder. back in march may decided to run the clock hoping that either eu or the uk parliament, would lose their nerve, neither did instead may lost hers and she was right. she tried it again in april with the same result. she tried passing her law 3 times which was against democratic rules and the same result.

borth idiots are sepeating the same stupid brovado, but i am afraid there is a few good tories that will not allow uk to commit sucide. where did do are die come from. what is so bad that we are risking death. how far can this stupidity go.

[Lordo]

If you want to see why mine and so many others opinion has hardened on this matter. Why it's turned in essence into a very nasty, bitter, albeit bloodless war, then I commend you to read Milti's posts. In my experience they're not atypical. In fact, I've read a great deal of that sort of stuff over the past 3 years. I know quite a lot of people who voted leave, and I've yet to meet one that fits his descriptions. Conversely, I've known a similar number of pro-remain people and a surprising amount haven't had a bloody clue about the EU, or its workings. Frankly they couldn't give a shit about the Federation but voted remain purely for status quo reasons. The largest group of all though have been those who simply couldn't be assed to vote in the referendum. Some of whom are among those making the most indignant noise about it now. Particularly in demanding a second "Peoples'" vote.

Are there those who voted leave who are ignorant ? Of course there are, just as there are those who voted remain who are ignorant. Does that mean that all those who voted leave are ignorant ? Of course it does not just as it does not mean all those who voted remain are ignorant. Are there those who voted remain (or leave) who are unwilling or unable to hear, see or believe anything other than what they want to hear see or believe ? Of course there are just as there are who are not like this. I could go one replacing 'ignorant' or 'unable to hear' with any number of things. Racist is about the only one of those things that does not follow this same pattern. It is hard to imagine that someone who IS racist would ever vote any way other than for leave. Does this mean all those who voted leave are racist ? Of course it does not.

So as far as I understand you on this point your 'complaint' seems to be that 'remainers' lump all 'leavers' in to one group and ascribe to them things like 'racist motivations' and 'ignorance' and the like and this 'upsets' you because you as a 'leaver' are not these things. I get it. I understand your frustration. However my 'sympathy' towards you in this regard is directly related to the degree to which you yourself do or do not do the same in reverse. Lumping all 'leavers' in to one group and ascribing negative attributes to all those who voted remain in the referendum regardless of their individual behaviour. I am afraid from where I am sitting you, as an individual, are not scoring very well on 'not doing to others the thing you complain you do not like being done to you' and as such my sympathy for your complaint is reduced accordingly.

The bottom line for me is that there are only two possible ways that implementing the referendum vote via a no deal exit can have 'democratic legitimacy'. One is for a majority of MP's to support such a means of exit, with the democratic legitimacy being the people vote for their MP's and the MP's vote on no deal exit or not. Such a majority of MP's does not currently exist in Parliament. Thus the only other way such a means of implementing the result of the referendum vote via a no deal exit could be considered democratically legitimate would be to have a referendum on that specific question. Thus for me those that argue that the referendum result means we must leave without a deal even though there is not a majority or MP's that support such a way of exiting the EU and explicitly without asking the people directly if this is what they want are not people who believe in democracy, they are those that just want to get what they want regardless of the requirements of democratic legitimacy. They are in short in my book clear hypocrites. It is not rocket science as far as I am concerned.

with the exception of the corporations who would benefit from brexit all those who voted for brexit were indeed ignorant of the worst kind. they voted for something which was not even negotiated yet.

this reminds of of the time when crooks would draw a crowd trying to sell boxes for 50 pounds caliming that there are hundreds of pounds of goods in them, but they could not be opened before you buy. and of course they place a few people in the crowd who would bu a box each and the the great unwashed would buy these boxes in their droves. we may have moved in time but the world is full of ignorant people who are no better than sheep.

[miltiades]

Would any of you Leavers tell me why has Sterling fallen so low since Brexit ? I would love to know also if any Leaver is happy with the pounds devaluation. To me it looks like the financial markets the world over consider Brexit bad for the economy of the UK.
It will be the biggest catastrophe that the UK has ever experienced coupled with the fact that Fuckrage might well in a few months down the road, be the PM.
For God sake wake up, ditch the little englander mentality, Europe must be United it will avoid another war, its not enough rejoicing each time some pretentious royal has a baby. Look at the UK newspapers , a fucking joke, such and such royal wire this and that fucking dress, stunning the ...croods!! Wake up. We are part of Europe not some distant banana republic.

[Paphitis]

Would any of you Leavers tell me why has Sterling fallen so low since Brexit ? I would love to know also if any Leaver is happy with the pounds devaluation. To me it looks like the financial markets the world over consider Brexit bad for the economy of the UK.
It will be the biggest catastrophe that the UK has ever experienced coupled with the fact that Fuckrage might well in a few months down the road, be the PM.
For God sake wake up, ditch the little englander mentality, Europe must be United it will avoid another war, its not enough rejoicing each time some pretentious royal has a baby. Look at the UK newspapers , a fucking joke, such and such royal wire this and that fucking dress, stunning the ...croods!! Wake up. We are part of Europe not some distant banana republic.

What the markets don't like is uncertainty.

Which is another reason to get on with it. The markets would be ok with BREXIT as long as it occurs quickly and efficiently so they can analyse the situation and react and bring back some certainly into the marketplace. Once that is over with, the markets become resilient and eventually its business as usual.

Britain will not fall into a catastrophic hole. It will live and go on like it has done so before post Brexit and it will continue to trade globally and with other EU countries and life goes on.

What the markets hate and fear most of all is all the delays and fighting and the uncertainty.

[miltiades]

Mate, you are outside Europe, your currency isn't the Sterling. Keep your opinions to your self.

[Paphitis]

Mate, you are outside Europe, your currency isn't the Sterling. Keep your opinions to your self.

You said there is a reason why the Sterling dropped. well its being remarkably quite steady for a while now.

But the market does get spooked and loses confidence when there is uncertainty just like the uncertainty around BREXIT can have a detrimental affect on the market. The market fears uncertainty more than anything. They fear uncertainty more than they actually fear BREXIT. This isn't opinion but rather fact! The Sterling is still one of the best currencies in the world and will recover and move forward. Cyprus had one of the most expensive currencies o the planet and they abolished it for the Euro which is only worth half as much. So how STUPID is Cyprus? Not to mention the fact they basically hand cuffed themselves to their National debt forever. Now, that is friggin insane and stupidity that just has no bounds.

This is the same the world over and also, I am as much a European Citizen as you are and as such am even entitled to vote in European Elections. It's also a free world, so I can make comment if I so wish.

But the quicker the EU collapses, the better off we will all be.

Britain is just going to save itself all the grief down the track.