Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

More rubbish!! Did you say you fly planes??
The EU is the most succesful union of nations in history. It will expand and go from strength to strength. Also ...Satan will remain the dictator of Syria !!

Yes I fly planes.

The EU is NOT successful at all. They have had 2 states with Banking collapses and there are another 2 to 3 on the verge.

It has been a literal disaster for so many, and especially for millions of people in Greece, Cyprus, Italy, and Spain living under brutal austerity. Perhaps it is only a success for countries like Germany and maybe 3 or 4 more, but it has been a disaster for many more countries like Greece.

Countries like Greece and Italy are unable to secure their borders, and millions of refugees are on the move. Crime levels are at unprecedented levels and still increasing. Ghettos are forming across Europe.

If you call that a success, then I am sorry, but before long there will be mass migrations out of Europe.

Britain needs to listen to its voters and leave. Free Trade Deals can be secured afterwards. Australia, USA and Canada are also very willing and prepared to help Britain through thick and thin. Don't mock this solidarity because it is both meaningful and considerable. This is Britain's safety net. It has real friends that will fall backwards to help them.

[erolz66]

Britain needs to listen to its voters and leave.

Maybe try and educate yourself on what the difference is between 'Britain' and the 'UK' and you might stop referring to Britain when you mean the UK ?

[Paphitis]

The parliament had already voted that there cannot be a “no deal” Brexit.
Now what for the leavers?

I don't think the Parliament can block a no deal BREXIT. What can't be blocked is a binding referendum.

The referendum actually surpasses the decisions of Parliament. It is literally the voice of the people that the Parliamentarians are suppose to represent and support in Parliament.

There has to be a BREXIT no matter what, even if that means a no deal BREXIT. The people voted for this. More than 17 million people voted for BREXIT.

[Londonrake]

Naive about what?

I do not know about naive but to say after a no deal exit the UK should then "Just negotiate Free Trade Deals with individual EU States" shows a fundamental and profound ignorance about one of the most fundamental aspects involved in Brexit.

True. The Commission negotiate trade deals. Although, it has a pretty unimpressive record, if the time scales for it to do so are examined. The problem of course being that they have to take into account the 33 Parliaments and National Assemblies that make up the bloc. Thus the plodding 5 year negotiations leading to a recent Canada/EU agreement. Even after all that the treaty was almost scuppered at the last minute by an intervention from the Wallonian element of the Belgium government.

It’s probably needless to say but a single country doesn’t have such considerations to worry about in negotiating trade deals.

I share Paphitis view on the EU’s record of success. Starting of course with the fact that the World’s 5th largest economy and second biggest contributor has voted to leave. Add to that dire problems in Italy and the southern countries, coupled with the relentless rise in populism (some in essence authoritarian/neo-Nazi) and things aren’t quite as rosy as sometimes painted. Brussel’s solution, which surely must be the Everest of arrogance/myopia is all can be solved by “more Europe”.

Sorry, I’m interfering (it’s a slow day here).

[erolz66]

I don't think the Parliament can block a no deal BREXIT.

You mean you do not think it can do so AGAIN, because it has already done so once. If it was unable to do so we would have left the EU on the 29 May 2019.

The referendum actually surpasses the decisions of Parliament.

Not in any legal or constitutional sense. The referendum was and is legally 'advisory'. This is how things work in the UK and have worked for centuries. Sovereignty rest with parliament.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referen ... ed_Kingdom

Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results; for example, even if the result of a pre-legislative referendum were a majority of "No" for a proposed law, Parliament could pass it anyway, because parliament is sovereign.

Legally, Parliament at any point in future could reverse legislation approved by referendum, because the concept of parliamentary sovereignty means no Parliament can prevent a future Parliament from amending or repealing legislation.

It is literally the voice of the people that the Parliamentarians are suppose to represent and support in Parliament.

And the people are free to change their minds for if they are not then you have the sovereignty of past generations over that of future ones

There has to be a BREXIT no matter what, even if that means a no deal BREXIT. The people voted for this. More than 17 million people voted for BREXIT.

And over 16 million voted against it in a campaign defined by lies, untruths, rhetoric and bombast with leave campaign groups found guilty of election violations by the relevant authority. The reality is that all options remain 'in play' currently from a no deal exit, to a exit based on the deal proposed to second referendum of some kind and even to revoking article 50 and scrapping exit entirely.

[miltiades]

I don't think the Parliament can block a no deal BREXIT.

You mean you do not think it can do so AGAIN, because it has already done so once. If it was unable to do so we would have left the EU on the 29 May 2019.

The referendum actually surpasses the decisions of Parliament.

Not in any legal or constitutional sense. The referendum was and is legally 'advisory'. This is how things work in the UK and have worked for centuries. Sovereignty rest with parliament.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referen ... ed_Kingdom

Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results; for example, even if the result of a pre-legislative referendum were a majority of "No" for a proposed law, Parliament could pass it anyway, because parliament is sovereign.

Legally, Parliament at any point in future could reverse legislation approved by referendum, because the concept of parliamentary sovereignty means no Parliament can prevent a future Parliament from amending or repealing legislation.

It is literally the voice of the people that the Parliamentarians are suppose to represent and support in Parliament.

And the people are free to change their minds for if they are not then you have the sovereignty of past generations over that of future ones

There has to be a BREXIT no matter what, even if that means a no deal BREXIT. The people voted for this. More than 17 million people voted for BREXIT.

And over 16 million voted against it in a campaign defined by lies, untruths, rhetoric and bombast with leave campaign groups found guilty of election violations by the relevant authority. The reality is that all options remain 'in play' currently from a no deal exit, to a exit based on the deal proposed to second referendum of some kind and even to revoking article 50 and scrapping exit entirely.[/quote
Mate, the UK is the fourth largest contributor , Germany being the first with almost double that of the UK

France follows and then Italy.

[erolz66]

It’s probably needless to say but a single country doesn’t have such considerations to worry about in negotiating trade deals.

Unless it is negotiating with a trade block. When we finally get round to negotiating a trade deal with the EU all those issue will still remain. It will still require consent from all those governments in the block we are negotiating with. Any such deal might well be put in jeopardy at the last minute by "an intervention from the Wallonian element of the Belgium government". So this idea that the UK can avoid such issues in trade negotiations once it is out of the EU only really makes sense if it is negotiating a deal with itself, or with individual states.

I share Paphitis view on the EU’s record of success. Starting of course with the fact that the World’s 5th largest economy and second biggest contributor has voted to leave. Add to that dire problems in Italy and the southern countries, coupled with the relentless rise in populism (some in essence authoritarian/neo-Nazi) and things aren’t quite as rosy as sometimes painted. Brussel’s solution, which surely must be the Everest of arrogance/myopia is all can be solved by “more Europe”.

Sorry, I’m interfering (it’s a slow day here).

I think the EU has fundamental systemic structural problems. However I do not think that is a reason why the UK should end it's membership via a no deal exit. Via an agreed withdrawal sure but not via a no deal exit, unless and until the people have been given an opportunity to vote as to if this is what they actually want or not. A no deal exit will cause vast suffering for millions of the most vulnerable people in the UK.

[erolz66]

the UK is the fourth largest contributor , Germany being the first with almost double that of the UK

net.JPG

[Londonrake]

I was using the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Corporation) figures. You’d think they’d get it right.

When it comes to getting reliable accounting stats, I know where I wouldn’t be inclined to go.

EU budget: Who pays most in and who gets most back? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318

So, given Milti’s figures are correct, it seems they won’t miss the UK’s money so much after all.

BTW. Interesting how many get more back than they pay in. I (so it was probably wrong) read some time ago that the UK’s GDP was greater than the combined totals of 19 EU countries. I imagine either someone would have to up their contributions (chances of Germany/France agreeing?) or people will need to tighten their belts and get used to receiving much less. I doubt it would impact upon Brussel’s famous profligacy though.

[Paphitis]

Mate, the UK is the fourth largest contributor , Germany being the first with almost double that of the UK

France follows and then Italy.

Germany and France should be the major contributors because all the odds are stacked in their favour.

they should be paying for the lesser but they don't want to. Instead, they condemned both Greece and Cyprus to 50 years of austerity and to loans they will never pay back.

The EU is basically a little club for the big boys. Greece and Cyprus might get a little handout to build a 2 lane bitumen road for Christmas if they behave themselves like serfs should.

BTW, Britain is second behind Germany and ahead of France.