Cyprus-Forum.com

[Humanist1]

how do you do that whole box thing when you cut and paste

[Humanist1]

"Erolz

It’s a circular argument isn’t it.

Then a Turk is a Turk and a Greek is a Greek.

One speaks this language, follows that religion and believes these things and the other their own.

You can’t force someone to believe what they don’t want to.

What Cyprus had in 1960 was a forced constitution that was destined, Actually set up to fail to create the present situation.

None of this changes the fact that Cyprus is occupied and the tc have a separatist approach to being Cypriot.”

Agreed

[erolz66]

Erolz

It’s a circular argument isn’t it.

Then a Turk is a Turk and a Greek is a Greek.

One speaks this language, follows that religion and believes these things and the other their own.

You can’t force someone to believe what they don’t want to.

What Cyprus had in 1960 was a forced constitution that was destined, Actually set up to fail to create the present situation.

None of this changes the fact that Cyprus is occupied and the tc have a separatist approach to being Cypriot.

No you can not force someone to believe something that they do not want to believe. But everyone can freely chose what they want to believe. Which goes back to the mantra 'be the change you want to see'. If the change you want to is a unitary Cypriot NATION (which is the requirement for Cypriot nation-state that is stable in the long term), then you need to choose to believe you have more in common with a fellow Cypriot than you do with someone who is not Cypriot. It is pretty simple.

The argument is not circular. It is a case of chicken and egg. If in the lead up to the end of British colonial rule in Cyprus a majority of TC had chosen to believe they had more in common with a GC than they did with someone from Turkey and a majority of GC chosen to believe they had more in common with a TC than they did with someone from Greece, then there would have been no need or excuse for anything other than an independent unitary Cyprus. It is because we did NOT (in majority) chose to believe this that we ended up with the 60's agreements that we did that could only ever fail.

Saying that the TRNC has a separatist approach is not the same thing as saying that TC have a separatist approach and conflating the two does not help at all. I am a TC and I do NOT have a separatist approach. I might well be a minority amongst TC and there undoubtedly exists TC who DO have a separatist approach but that does not mean that I as a TC have such. If we are ever to find a way to go from where we are today to a true unitary Cypriot nation, then the route to that is to try increase the number of TC that have my approach and that aim is not well served by telling me that 'TC have a separatist approach' without any qualification of some or many or even most.

[Humanist1]

Erolz

You are not making sense. You state a Cypriot Nation, yet you say someone who is not Cypriot. That does not make sense. You do have a separatist approach or at least that how it comes accross in your post.

[erolz66]

Mate I think your stuchk in 1974. The majority of GC's have nothing in comon with GC's and they know that.

Have you read this forum for the last 10 years ? Have you ever read the comments section of Cyprus Mail ? Have you ever heard the expression 'Cyprus is Greek' (or Cyprus is Turkish). Have you ever seen a GC politician talk about Hellenism ? Who is really in denial here I have to wonder ?

[Humanist1]

sorry that was meant to be Greeks

Yes I have heard, however it is not a standing President. The reality is whilst Turkey has a military presence we rely on Greeks for support. I have not heard a standing President to talk about Helenism.

Erolz I live in Australia and I have an accent. I am 51years of age and i arived in Australia as a 12 year old in 1981. My mother lost her brother in the war he was 17 years of age when he went to war. I constantly have to state that I am Australian to those people who ask me where I come from, despite that I have worked since the age of 15 years and completed my university studies and have worked as a social worker for the last 30 year and keep paying my taxes.. Cyprus is now for me the place I was born I cannot say I am Cypriot because I don’t know what that means.

So to summarise .... the minute we prefix the Cypriot we are being separatists. Unity isn’t Greek or Turkish it simply is Cypriot. That does not mean you stop speaking Greek or Turkish believe in traditions and or custome you have grown up with or anyone has the right to expect so. I am an Australian I speak both grek and English the first only with my parents, I believe in Jesus and have the outmost respect for Islam and Muslim people as I do for Buddhist people and I certainly do not think that Christiaity is the right religion, I am simply open tothe idea that another religious sect may be the true teaching. What interest me most in religion is the staff tat are coon amonst all teachings basically be a good person and treat other as you would yourself.

[erolz66]

Erolz

You do have a separatist approach or at least that how it comes accross in your post.

If that is how it is coming across to you then I have not explained what I mean in a way you can understand it. I do however have to 'retire' for the night now but I will try and explain further in due course (and also try and answer you question about the 'box thing' as well if no one else has responded to that by the time I can return to this discussion).

[Maximus]

Erolz,

Chicken and egg is a circular argument.

The conundrum is what comes first when you can’t have one without the other.

I agree with humanist, it’s starting not to make sense.

Simply because we are talking about manufacturing a common Cypriot identity between, two separate groups of people.

How to go from where Cyprus is today to a United cyprus?

I will try and keep it simple.

Reverse the invasion and occupation as much as possible,

Dismantle the trnc.

Those that are Cypriot stay,

Those that are not Cypriot, go to turkey.

No need to complicate it but we know this is not the agenda of turkey or the tc leadership.

[Humanist1]

Maximus

I think the issue here is that the trnc leadership has no voice and that we need to be mindful of. And unfortunately if this is the case, it is left up to TC’s to take action. We cannot do it as we are seen as the enemy.

[Maximus]

I would accept that and give the benefit of the doubt to the tc leadership but how is that or how are they good for Cyprus.

It simply isn’t.