Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Then surely what we have is the best of the worst and the only way we can live peacefully on this island is as 2 good neighbours as I want the safety of my family above all and will not accept any solution that will put them in danger which is a solution forced upon either community.

This statement assumes that both communities are equally unhappy about the current situation. This is clearly not the case, as the 18% TC community holds by force 37% of Cyprus.

As I said above, the ideal solution would be a TRUE unification, where everyone goes home. If however the 2 good neighbours principle is the only realistic way forward, the TC area needs to be limited to 18% in order to achieve a fundamental degree of fairness i.e. the deal will be on the established principle of "land for sovereignty" - you will hand back half of what you stole by force in return for recognition of a sovereign state, EU entry etc etc.

Alternatively, you will continue to have a GC population waiting to get revenge and re-claim its areas at the earliest opportunity. This is recipe for further trouble - plus it means you remain isolated and Turkey stays outside the EU.

Your version of true unification differs from mine and after 46 years it appears we will never be able to bridge our differences. This realization will not only hit all Cypriots in time but also the international players.
Your arguements supports this view you are unable to envisage a united Cyprus where you have to share with TCs.

On that understanding and no trust or compromise from either side we have the current division with in my opinion is the only real solution to ensure that GCs do not have to share or consider TCs as partners and TCs do not have worry about being dominated by the numerically larger GCs.
Return of land for recognition is totally acceptable to me considering our current impass and lack of any vision for a united Cyprus.

[Piratis]

The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is established with the will and blessing of its citizens.

Which citizens? The majority of the citizens were ethnically cleansed from northern Cyprus in order to create this pseudo puppet state of Turkey.

[Tony-4497]

I demand from the Turkish Republic of Northern Cypriots to restore the human rights of Greek Cypriots, something that will eventually erode all your political arguments about full return to "legality".

bg_turk

I do not think you quite realise the impact of what you are saying here.

Some 90% of the land in the occupied area ("TRNC" in your world) is owned by GCs. If the "TRNC" was to respect the fundamental human right of ownership of those GCs it would simply have to dissolve itself in the process.

That's why it cannot and will not respect those human rights. That's why the pseudo law it is developing in order to comply with ECHR rulings provides for the return of a tiny fraction of GC property and prevents the return of the vast majority of properties under various pretexts. As such it is a joke, and it will be interesting to see how the ECHR will respond (to Turkey of course, as the "TRNC" does not even exist).

[bg_turk]

According to data presented by Kifeas only 60% percent of the land in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus belongs to GCs individually, which will be further reduced by exchanging some of this land with the land of TRNC citizens in Southern Cyprus.



After correcting this table for TC land in the RoC and the Buffer Zone(which will be returned to the RoC):

Code: Select all

               GC             TC           other         state         total
TRNC       1368          1113         9              734           3224
               42.4%        34.5%        0.3%        22.8%     100.0%
RoC         3966          0               11            1554         5531
                71.7%       0.0%        0.2%         28.1%      100.0%
Buffer       188           0              2               52            242
                77.7%       0.0%       0.8%          21.5%       100.0%
UK Bases  120            18           20              96            254
                47.2%       7.1%       7.9%           37.8%      100.0%


Clearly privately owned GC land in the North ammounts to no more than 43 percent of the total land.

As you can see even if all displaced persons were to apply for restitution, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus would be fully in position do deal with the problem.

[Alexis]

Hi bg_turk,

The grouping of the numbers in the table you have given opens up
an interesting question. Many TCs on this board have called for recognition of the TRNC in its current state. Hypothetically (and this is a hypothetical question since I don't believe this is ever going to happen), if the TRNC were to exchange, in return for recognition, the right of return of the GCs in your amended table (bearing in mind that is not even all the GC refugees), would the TCs be willing to give GCs 50% political rights in their state?
Also bear in mind that there would actually be more GCs than TCs in this TRNC based on the land ownership figures than TCs.
I would guess that the answer would be no, and this is exactly (imo) why the TRNC cannot remain in its current form. Either we go for partition and at least some land goes to the RoC, or we go for a BBF which gives full freedom for all. I would opt for the later.

[bg_turk]

The TRNC should be a unitary state, its constitution should have no references to different ethnicities, everybody should be equal before the law and no one should be discriminated based on their ethnic backgroud. This is exactly what Greek Cypriots demand today, everybody should go back to their homes, the only difference is that GCs in the north will receive TRNC citizenship.

[Tony-4497]

bg_turk

In addition to the issue raised above by Alexis, you seem to assume that "TRNC" can keep all of the state-owned land that Turkey has stolen by force. Clearly, this cannot happen.

Also, you assume that all of the TC land in the RoC controlled area will be exhanged with GC land in the occupied area. Again, this assumes that all those individuals involved agree with this arrangement (which I doubt).

I believe that the one significant thing to note from that table is the ownership ratio of GC and TC owned total land, which is 5:1 (i.e. 61.0%:12.23%). Accordingly, a fair split for 2 sovereign states would be 83.5% v 16.5%... so 80:20 is actually a pretty good deal for TCs.

[Alexis]

The TRNC should be a unitary state, its constitution should have no references to different ethnicities, everybody should be equal before the law and no one should be discriminated based on their ethnic backgroud. This is exactly what Greek Cypriots demand today, everybody should go back to their homes, the only difference is that GCs in the north will receive TRNC citizenship.

An interesting suggestion. Presumable this new nation would change it's name to something with no ethnic links to reflect it's constitution?
Greek Cypriots do demand a Unitary State with full right of return wherever possible, but the State they demand covers the whole of Cyprus. One of the big issues in the Cyprus problem is that we can never get to a situation in which all refugees can return to their homes (or if not their homes their home towns) and partition into two separate unitary states exists. For this to be the case the GCs would dominate both of these states. Even in the case you put forward (in which the TCs originally from the South group in the north and the gap is filled by GCs) not all refugees will be able to return and the GCs would still be above 50%. This is exactly why the RoC constitution is so absolutely opposed to partition (as well as union with another state). The analysis of the numbers also reveals why many GCs today might accept partition but insist on a re-drawing of the boundary to reflect the populations.

[bg_turk]

Alexis,

if the TRNC unilatrally declares tomorrow that it will allow GCs to return to their properies, provided they accept the soveregnity and recgonzie the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, this will be the final blow to the RoC. Recognition will be just a matter of time.

The official language of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus will be Turkish. I do not believe a change in the name would be necessary, for example Greece is not exclusively greek, it also belongs to the turkish minority there, so is Bulgaria. The TRNC will not be exclusively turkish either, it will belong to all of its residents. Safeguard mechanisms that will esnure the protection of minorities should be introduced for the full satisfaction of the TRNC citizens of greek origin.

The population of the TRNC today is 232 thousand*, the total number of greek cypriot refugees is around 180 thousand, not all of which will return because the properties of some will be exchanged for turkish properties in the south, say swapping for around 50 000 TCs who left the South, the maximum number of GCS that will be eligible to return will be around 130-140 thousand. Clarly GCs will not be a majority of the TRNC and will constitute around a 1/3 of the total population.

Of course this will be the worst possible scenario for the government of the RoC, since the human rights issue on the island will be resolved, and that government will no longer be able to exploit it in order to achieve political concessions from the TRNC.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Re ... ern_Cyprus

[Piratis]

Greek Cypriots are the majority of the whole Cyprus and we have been so for 3500 years.

The invaders will sooner or later be thrown out of our country and legality, democracy and human rights will be restored. The ones that caused the suffering to the Cypriot people and went against the laws and the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus will be punished approprietly.

Meanwhile it would be very convenient for us if you allow Greek Cypriots to return to the illegally occupied Cyprus. It will help us to fight the foreign occupation from the inside, and liberate our country easier.

The Turkish occupation of Cyprus is an illegal occupation. And just like it was the case with similar occupations (Iraq of Kuwait, Nazis in WWII, Ottomans in Greece etc) the foreign invaders will sooner or later forced to leave from our island.

To Turks belongs Turkey, not our island. We are the Cypriots and Cyprus belongs to us.