Cyprus-Forum.com

[Londonrake]

What game ? You put up a 'proposition' that the motions Bercow selected from the 8 proposed was evidence of his bias. I think the proposition does not stand up to impartial enquiry and said so. Personally, after all that happened, I care little for what the UK's status and relationship with the EU ends up being. Certainly no where near as much as I care about the way the UK is tearing itself apart over it or the global global trend, of the sustained assault on and death of both 'reason' and 'reasonableness'.

cyprus46758-100.html#p879521

I didn't put up any proposition. I just posted an article which outlined the amendments The Honourable Mr Speaker had chosen and their repetitive nature - although May's multiple "meaningful votes" on the (absolutely appalling) WA it seems are subject to a different (17th century) rule. In fact, I preceded it by saying that the man was much maligned.

no where? global global? of?

[Sotos]

Personally I hope the UK exists. Cyprus will be hit financially to a degree but I think politically it is to our benefit. The UK does not want a proper solution to the Cyprus problem as this could affect their interests with the bases and being one of the major EU countries they have affected EU policies regarding Cyprus in a negative way. With the UK out of the EU and with Cyprus in, and if EU manages to integrate further (UK was one of the main obstacles for this) then we will have better chances for a proper solution and for reclaiming the territory occupied by the bases.

Also, it is in the interest of EU for the UK to become an example of why it is a bad choice to leave the EU.

I think many people just see the economic side of it and the "backstop" and forget that there are other major political issues at play which for obvious reasons are not usually openly talked about.

[Londonrake]

Personally I hope the UK exists.

Hallelujah to that. I hope they exist, too.

Cyprus will be hit financially to a degree but I think politically it is to our benefit.

It seems to me that your country is making strenuous efforts to avoid the "political benefit". Alienating the UK would be an economic disaster.

The UK does not want a proper solution to the Cyprus problem as this could affect their interests with the bases

Do you have any proof of that?

With the UK out of the EU and with Cyprus in, and if EU manages to integrate further (UK was one of the main obstacles for this) then we will have better chances for a proper solution and for reclaiming the territory occupied by the bases.

Haven't you had enough of EU integration (aka German economic hegemony)? If you think the UK leaving the EU will lead to the reunification of Cyprus you are being a bit myopically naive.

Also, it is in the interest of EU for the UK to become an example of why it is a bad choice to leave the EU.

Or to put it more succinctly - if any country should exercise it's supposedly democratic right to leave they should be severely punished. As an example to anybody else who has such ideas? Wonderful club - ehh?

I think many people just see the economic side of it and the "backstop" and forget that there are other major political issues at play which for obvious reasons are not usually openly talked about.

I certainly agree with that. 100% of the discussion is about economics and trade. That's not really the core issue though.

Try checking out the inexorable rise of anti-EU movements in the EU. In the supposedly devoted France, for instance, 10 years ago you wouldn't have gotten 4% of the electorate to vote for anti EU parties. Two years ago 40% of them did so. Have a look at the AFD (Germany), the 5 star movement (Italy), FPO (Austria), NF (France), EPP (Hungary), Law and Justice Party (Poland)................ and others on the rise.

[erolz66]

I didn't put up any proposition. I just posted an article which outlined the amendments The Honourable Mr Speaker had chosen and their repetitive nature - although May's multiple "meaningful votes" on the (absolutely appalling) WA it seems are subject to a different (17th century) rule. In fact, I preceded it by saying that the man was much maligned.

no where? global global? of?

Who is the one playing games here ?

You have fun. I hope you get what what you wish for.

[Sotos]

It seems to me that your country is making strenuous efforts to avoid the "political benefit". Alienating the UK would be an economic disaster.

You are exaggerating. And nobody said that we will intentionally "alienate" the UK. What I say is that with UK out of EU and Cyprus in, the relationship between Cyprus and UK can be more balanced.

Do you have any proof of that?

The whole policy of the UK toward Cyprus from the 50s until today. From inviting Turkey to get involved in Cyprus in the 50s, to using their position in the security council to try to skew resolutions in favor of the Turkish side (and leaving us on counting on Russia and China).

Haven't you had enough of EU integration (aka German economic hegemony)? If you think the UK leaving the EU will lead to the reunification of Cyprus you are being a bit myopically naive.

I didn't say that UK leaving the EU will lead to reunification. What I said is that one of the obstacles (the UK) will be reduced. Cyprus is a small island, it will fall under somebodies hegemony anyways. The EU is built based on some principles and we at least have some say in it, so that is the best option for us.

Or to put it more succinctly - if any country should exercise it's supposedly democratic right to leave they should be severely punished. As an example to anybody else who has such ideas? Wonderful club - ehh?

The "punishment" would come in the form of "reduced benefits". Compare that, for example, with the harsh embargoes placed on Cuba by the Americans to make sure that an example of communism in the Americas will fail and discourage others from following that example.

Try checking out the inexorable rise of anti-EU movements in the EU. In the supposedly devoted France, for instance, 10 years ago you wouldn't have gotten 4% of the electorate to vote for anti EU parties. Two years ago 40% of them did so. Have a look at the AFD (Germany), the 5 star movement (Italy), FPO (Austria), NF (France), EPP (Hungary), Law and Justice Party (Poland)................ and others on the rise.

The EU certainly has issues, but dissolving the EU is not what would serve the interests of any of those countries. The time that a relatively small European country like France, England or Spain, could be world powers on their own has passed and it is not coming back. Without the EU even the big European countries would be subordinates of others. With integration EU offers to Europeans the opportunity to be major players along with US, China and Russia. It hasn't happened yet, but it could. In my opinion the EU will either become a federation or it will dissolve. The current situation can't last forever.

[erolz66]

Londonrake

You claim one of the reasons you enjoy this forum is the relative absence of Brexit discussion on it. Yet you yourself push your views about Brexit here and when I challenged them you respond with 'I am not interested in discussing Brexit any more'. Seems to me that what you like about this forum is not the relative lack of Brexit related discussion but the, up to now, relative lack of being challenged when you pro actively inject your own partisan views about Brexit here.

In this latest example, you have a neo nazi pushing their anti semtic agenda. Seeking and hoping to link any 'anti Brecow' sentiment he could find to Bercow being jewish.

You do not challenge the anti semtic post. You do not ignore it. You actually aid and abet this neo nazi pushing his anti semitic agenda by instead posting a highly partisan in terms of Brexit, ill thought out, 'anti Bercow' link that suits your position on Brexit despite and regardless of the obvious flaw in it and despite how doing so feeds in to the neo nazis objective.

To which the neo nazi thanks you and calls you 'mate'. He thanks you not because your link in any way addresses the original 'excuse question' the neo nazi had used to push his anti semtic agenda - which was why did Bercow cast the deciding vote the way that he did when the vote on the amendment was tied. The link you gave does not address this 'question' at all. It does however feed in to 'anti Bercow' sentiment that the neo nazi is seeking to exploit. He thanks you because by the very act of you 'engaging' with his anti-semtic post, as if it is a genuine and innocent enquiry, without any mention of the anti semtism built in to it, you have given him what he wants and served his dangerous agenda.

The link you posted puts forward two propositions, one that Bercow showed bias in his selection of amendments in the second round of the indicative vote process and secondly that he was being 'inconsistent' in allowing second indicative votes on motions put in the first round having made clear he would not allow the governments bill to be continually represented without any changes to the bill.

Both the propositions in your link are easily challenged but you made clear, yet again, having yourself introduce the link in the first place, you had no interest in any discussion as to why the propositions in it are so weak.

The Irony here is that the vote Bercow cast the deciding vote on that the nazi's 'excuse question' was 'about' was in fact to block these indicative votes being brought back for a third round of the indicative vote process.

So having introduced the partisan brexit link yourself, having aided and abetted a neo nazi pushing their racist agenda and having said you have no interest in discussing the weakness in the link you posted, when I challenged it's first proposition, you then go on to 'push' the second proposition in your link.

The second proposition in the link you posted, is that there is an inconsistency between Bercow blocking the government from bringing its bill, to be passed in to law, repeated times and him allowing such with indicative votes. This proposition is weak because it is a classic case of comparing apples with oranges (false equivalence). The indicative vote process was set up and designed as that - a process to indicate (not pass in to law) if there was or was not any option that a commons majority could coalesce around. The bringing of same motions in subsequent rounds was built in to this process and was the point of it as a process. That is not the case with the governments bill that the link tries to falsely 'equate' these motions within order to show Bercow's inconsistency.

Then for good measure, as someone who does not want to argue or discuss the things you have posted, you throw in a pejorative '17th centuary'. What is unusual in Bercow applying this rule is not that it dates back hundreds of years. It is that it has been hundreds of years since a speaker has had any need to apply it and therefore consider it. In any 'recent' time any government that lost a vote on it's 'flagship' policy by such a margin would have fallen. The 'atypical' part in all this is not the speaker applying and old rule, it is him being put in an position where he needs to apply it.

No doubt just yet one more argument you have no interest in discussing, having first introduced the topic yourself as part of your pushing your partisan views on Brexit here, a place you allegedly enjoy because of its relative lack of discussion about Brexit.

I have little serious doubt that it will not be long before you also tell Sotos, that you have little interest in discussing with him the things you raised and posted about brexit from your partisan position.

I entered this thread to challenge a neo nazi's attempts to push an anti semitic agenda. I did not comment on the link you posted as part of you pushing your partisan brexit position here, despite the clear weakness in the points put forward in that link and the contradiction with what you said to me the last time you introduced your partisan Brexit position in to a discussion. I only pointed out the 'fallacies' in the link you posted when you then also engaged with that neo nazi about the link you posted whilst ignoring the anti semitism in his comment.

The Irony inherent in your response to Sotos about the rise of the likes of the AfD, 5 star, etc given your own behaviour here, does not escape me either.

And finally just to be clear, do not confuse me with someone that has any interest what so ever, in being pulled up or pulling others up on spelling mistakes, double words, misused words, grammatical mistakes or anything similar outside of them leading to misunderstanding as to what is being said. To be even clearer when I say I have no interest in such things I mean that I myself will not do this.

[DT.]

That Jew Bercow said NO. Anyone knows why?

That orthodox christian kurupetos seems obsessed with people's Jewish ancestry. Anyone know why ?

Not very smart?

[miltiades]

Yet it was a jew that told us that God created the Universe !! The poor guy was wondering in the desert for 40 years, what else could he, Moses, have done but dream the impossible. We all, or most of us, fell for it.
In Genesis, his first book he set about creating the most succesful ever mythology, or rather the biggest con EVER.
Took him, God, 6 days to create the sun, the moon,the earth, millions of stars and galaxies....galore, all these in just 6 days.
Too lazy to create Eve, didnt want to dirty his hands again after making Adam, he just chopped off a rib from Adam and bingo, made a woman, gave her a ...brain, May comes to mind, a pair of tits a gorgeous pussy , May DOES NOT come to mind, and the stuborness of a mule !! What a load of shit, equal to that of ....Btexshit !!!

[Robin Hood]

Yet it was a jew that told us that God created the Universe !! The poor guy was wondering in the desert for 40 years, what else could he, Moses, have done but dream the impossible. We all, or most of us, fell for it.
In Genesis, his first book he set about creating the most succesful ever mythology, or rather the biggest con EVER.
Took him, God, 6 days to create the sun, the moon,the earth, millions of stars and galaxies....galore, all these in just 6 days.
Too lazy to create Eve, didnt want to dirty his hands again after making Adam, he just chopped off a rib from Adam and bingo, made a woman, gave her a ...brain, May comes to mind, a pair of tits a gorgeous pussy , May DOES NOT come to mind, and the stuborness of a mule !! What a load of shit, equal to that of ....Btexshit !!!

Do I take it then that you are not a Church goer?

Brexit: Tell me ...... do you believe in a Federal States of Europe, with a single currency, a single central bank, its own foreign policy and its own Army/Navy/Air Force and agree to them dictating their rules to the UK, through an EU Ruling Elite, who we have no say in electing?

[miltiades]

I do follow traditions, i go to weddings, funerals, christenings etc. I do not for a flimsy second believe in the absolute mythological teachings, or rather mental brainwashing.
Yes I believe in a totally united Europe, one currency, one army and a centrally elected European Parliament. I also beleive that if and when the UK comes out, I do not think it will by the way, ii a few years some arsehole, Farage for instance, will call for a ...war on Germany. I beleive convincingly that Europe united is far more conducive to peace than divided Europe. Out with nationalist bullshit, Long live Europe.