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[Kikapu]

As it is now, I do not think that Boeing is in any danger of folding just because of the MAX, since the MAX is not the only product they have. I can see the MAX folding and written off, but not Boeing, because there are other Boeing models which are in demand and are good products. I would say however, that Boeing needs to deal with the MAX and get rid of it as it is becoming more and more a liability for Boeing than an asset, regardless how many thousands of orders there are for the MAX on the books. Those orders mainly were made before the two crashes and steadily, it's popularity is on a decline where cancellations of those MAX's orders will start mushrooming at some point as the grounding continues and more problems are being discovered with it's hardware and software, and Boeing needs to do this before there is another MAX crash relating to the MCAS, and even if the crash that is not related to the MCAS but conspiracy theories would be enough to cause harm to the MAX, which the third crash of the MAX could do Boeing in for good.

[Robin Hood]

As it is now, I do not think that Boeing is in any danger of folding just because of the MAX, since the MAX is not the only product they have. I can see the MAX folding and written off, but not Boeing, because there are other Boeing models which are in demand and are good products. I would say however, that Boeing needs to deal with the MAX and get rid of it as it is becoming more and more a liability for Boeing than an asset, regardless how many thousands of orders there are for the MAX on the books. Those orders mainly were made before the two crashes and steadily, it's popularity is on a decline where cancellations of those MAX's orders will start mushrooming at some point as the grounding continues and more problems are being discovered with it's hardware and software, and Boeing needs to do this before there is another MAX crash relating to the MCAS, and even if the crash that is not related to the MCAS but conspiracy theories would be enough to cause harm to the MAX, which the third crash of the MAX could do Boeing in for good.

I didn't say Boeing will fold ..... I said that IMO the brand name 'Boeing' will disappear as a civilian aircraft manufacturer brand name! Boeing will continue but as the manufacturer of military aviation equipment. The line of Boeing models, excluding the 737 Max, will still be supported but under a different brand name.

[Kikapu]

As it is now, I do not think that Boeing is in any danger of folding just because of the MAX, since the MAX is not the only product they have. I can see the MAX folding and written off, but not Boeing, because there are other Boeing models which are in demand and are good products. I would say however, that Boeing needs to deal with the MAX and get rid of it as it is becoming more and more a liability for Boeing than an asset, regardless how many thousands of orders there are for the MAX on the books. Those orders mainly were made before the two crashes and steadily, it's popularity is on a decline where cancellations of those MAX's orders will start mushrooming at some point as the grounding continues and more problems are being discovered with it's hardware and software, and Boeing needs to do this before there is another MAX crash relating to the MCAS, and even if the crash that is not related to the MCAS but conspiracy theories would be enough to cause harm to the MAX, which the third crash of the MAX could do Boeing in for good.

I didn't say Boeing will fold ..... I said that IMO the brand name 'Boeing' will disappear as a civilian aircraft manufacturer brand name! Boeing will continue but as the manufacturer of military aviation equipment. The line of Boeing models, excluding the 737 Max, will still be supported but under a different brand name.

I don't think you can separate the brand name of "Boeing" from the company of Boeing. The two are one, surely?

In the 70's in the UK, there was a Japanese car model/brand called "Datsun", which then it became to be called "Nissan". It took almost a generation for the name change to sink into peoples minds. Boeing is everywhere. They do own other brand names like McDonnell Douglas which they can use, I guess.

[Londonrake]

Another aspect?

Boeing laying off their own software design teams and paying people in India ($9 per hour) to do the job instead. Thought perhaps to have led to the current problems with the Max.

This, from a company that makes nearly $100 billion a year profit Greed?

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 267_1.html

.

[Paphitis]

Boeing is here to stay. they are so big and have a market presence.

Boeing have nothing to worry about at all. Remember, Airbus has been through something similar and it was much much worse but they got through it as expected. this too will blow over in time and it will be business as usual.

Plus, they are financially strong and secure. They got a lot of money and power.

The Boeing name is an institution and won't be going anywhere. They are actually in the advance stages of testing their new B797. I do know one of the Test Pilots working on this project who is running some of the mock tests in the B797 simulator (which already exists). Boeing have nt officially announced it yet.

So yeh, they will still be building airliners and they are still building B737 Max 8 aircraft. There is actually a back log of orders.

[Robin Hood]

Another aspect?

Boeing laying off their own software design teams and paying people in India ($9 per hour) to do the job instead. Thought perhaps to have led to the current problems with the Max.

This, from a company that makes nearly $100 billion a year profit Greed?

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 267_1.html.

Have you ever worked with Indian engineers?

One of the first things they ask you is how many degrees you have? Because when it comes to qualifications they make the average Brit look like a mental retard! It is common for them to have 2-3 degrees and a Masters. If they are from a very rich family they will most likely be also hold a PhD.

They have absolutely phenomenal memories and can absorb information like blotting paper. Some have photographic memories and can literally memorise a 100+ page manual/specification/scope of work, just by reading it through. They have the inordinate ability to shut out the world around them and direct 100% concentration on studies with instant recall.

But when it comes to applying that knowledge to the real world they frequently flounder like fish out of water. To use the expression you always find so hilarious, they completely lack the ability to ‘think-outside-the-box’. They can only do what they have learned and often cannot comprehend the obvious ........... because they never read about it!

MCAS and many of these software problems are due to the people writing the program not having a full awareness of problems because it takes the requirement to take into account many facets of the system to find the remedy. I have found the majority of these guys are fine when given a task in detail and are dedicated to doing the job but, leave them to draw their own conclusions from a situation and they frequently go off in the wrong direction.

[Robin Hood]

Boeing is here to stay. they are so big and have a market presence.

Boeing have nothing to worry about at all. Remember, Airbus has been through something similar and it was much much worse but they got through it as expected. this too will blow over in time and it will be business as usual.

Plus, they are financially strong and secure. They got a lot of money and power.

The Boeing name is an institution and won't be going anywhere. They are actually in the advance stages of testing their new B797. I do know one of the Test Pilots working on this project who is running some of the mock tests in the B797 simulator (which already exists). Boeing have nt officially announced it yet.

So yeh, they will still be building airliners and they are still building B737 Max 8 aircraft. There is actually a back log of orders.

The Airbus 380 problem was with cracks in the engine mounts, maybe a design calculation flaw but not the same as a software error and/or progressive failures across all variations of the same model. "Much, much worse" is hardly an accurate description!

How many crashed because of the cracks? Did Airbus ever refute the problem when it was found?

The 380 is now no longer in production?

[Kikapu]

Another aspect?

Boeing laying off their own software design teams and paying people in India ($9 per hour) to do the job instead. Thought perhaps to have led to the current problems with the Max.

This, from a company that makes nearly $100 billion a year profit Greed?

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 267_1.html.

Have you ever worked with Indian engineers?

One of the first things they ask you is how many degrees you have? Because when it comes to qualifications they make the average Brit look like a mental retard! It is common for them to have 2-3 degrees and a Masters. If they are from a very rich family they will most likely be also hold a PhD.

They have absolutely phenomenal memories and can absorb information like blotting paper. Some have photographic memories and can literally memorise a 100+ page manual/specification/scope of work, just by reading it through. They have the inordinate ability to shut out the world around them and direct 100% concentration on studies with instant recall.

But when it comes to applying that knowledge to the real world they frequently flounder like fish out of water. To use the expression you always find so hilarious, they completely lack the ability to ‘think-outside-the-box’. They can only do what they have learned and often cannot comprehend the obvious ........... because they never read about it!

MCAS and many of these software problems are due to the people writing the program not having a full awareness of problems because it takes the requirement to take into account many facets of the system to find the remedy. I have found the majority of these guys are fine when given a task in detail and are dedicated to doing the job but, leave them to draw their own conclusions from a situation and they frequently go off in the wrong direction.

Silicon Valley in California applies to the US government to issues thousands of H1B visas every year to foreign workers in the IT sector, which most of the applicants arrive from India.

[Paphitis]

The A380 is an excellent aircraft. State of the Art. It's problems however are far more than some cracks on the engine mounts. It is an aircraft that is far too big and hence not extremely flexible across a network. It's very difficult getting the right load factors to turn a profit. this is what the A380 operators are finding which is why QANTAS, Emirates, Singapore, Etihad are not buying many. It's simply just too big. The market is the greatest judge and jury I am afraid and the A380 isn't doing well. Compare that to the B737, and the market is all in and favourable and it's also quite favorable towards the A320 family.

aircraft are periodically scanned and x-rayed as part of their cyclic maintenance programs to detect cracks. They occur and they will always occur. Hence all the regular inspections.

But that was not what I was talking about. The entire Airbus Fleet has had extensive Flight management and Software issues and is still to this day plagued by excessive automation which needs extensive management.

There have been a number of crashes due to sensor faults and Flight Management issues such as the Air France crash a few years ago where there was an IAS disagreement and the pilots stalled the aircraft in a massive cell.

these types of accidents are going to occur, but neither Airbus or Boeing are going down for them. In fact, these are the 2 leading manufacturers of passenger aircraft in the world. They are innovators and offer huge contributions to the Aviation Industry around the globe. The are high impact players.

As for the A380, all aircraft have stress fractures. I would hardly call that a significant problem. it's a bit like the Battery issue of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. Yes the batteries caused a couple of fires but that does not mean that the 787 isn't a superb aircraft. The B787 is brilliant, as is the A350 its direct competitor.

As for the B737. Well, this is the best airliner ever. The numbers do not lie. This is a classic. It will be flying for the next 40 years because the industry love the 737. It's a money making machine. Same with the A320. This is another classic, like the B747 and B777 as well. They will take their place in history. The A380 falls short because airline companies are avoiding it because they are finding it difficult to get adequate load factors on such a large capacity aircraft to be profitable. For that reason alone, the A380 is problematic for the industry.

And also this...

On 5 November 2014, Lufthansa Flight 1829, an Airbus A321 was flying from Bilbao to Munich when the aircraft, while on autopilot, lowered the nose into a descent reaching 4000 fpm. The uncommanded pitch-down was caused by two angle of attack sensors that were jammed in their positions, causing the fly by wire protection to believe the aircraft entered a stall while it climbed through FL310. The Alpha Protection activated, forcing the aircraft to pitch down, which could not be corrected even by full stick input. The crew disconnected the related Air Data Units and were able to recover the aircraft. The event was also reported in the German press several days before the Germanwings crash. The German Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accident Investigation (BFU) reported on the incident on 17 March 2015 in a Bulletin publishing the flight data recorder and pitch control data in English and German. As a result of this incident an Airworthiness Directive made mandatory the Aircraft Flight Manual amended by the procedure the manufacturer had described in the FOT and the OEB and a subsequent information of flight crews prior to the next flight. EASA issued a similar Airworthiness Directive for the aircraft types A330/340.

So these issues at Boeing are NOTHING NEW.

There are literally a dozen more examples of Air France 447 and Lufthansa 1829. I just need time to research as there are dozens of A319/A320/A321/A330/A340 crashes to sift through. A lot as a result of sensors and automation as well. Boeing has been the more frugal when it comes to automation which is why pilots favour Boeing generally speaking.

A B737 is much nicer to fly than an A320 in my opinion.

What is ludicrous is all the doomsday talk about Boeing. There really isn't that much of a big deal and the media have really blown this out of all proportion. Boeing will fix the software issue for the Max 8 and the type will be flying again by December the latest or July 8th at the earliest (according to an insider I know).

If the industry loses faith on the Max 8, then those who are able to will reconfigure their orders to the Max 9 and the B737-10NG. Some companies like Air Canada and Virgin Australia have done that. QANTAS is going to put a big order for various B737 Max 8, Max 9 and B737-10NG aircraft as well. So it's business as usual.

Boeing is just going to get the Max 8 back in the air, pay out some compensation and they are going to move on and launch their B797 at the Paris Air Show. This will be their moment.

[erolz66]

As for the B737. Well, this is the best airliner ever. The numbers do not lie.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm