Cyprus-Forum.com

[Londonrake]

Paywalled - so I have to post the full Monty I'm afraid:

"What's driving President Erdogan's shameful exploitation of the New Zealand massacre?

Turks were high on the Christchurch killer's list of hate figures. Both in his internet manifesto and engraved on his weapons were the dates and names of victories of Christians over Muslim Turks like the sea-battle of Lepanto in 1571 or Catherine the Great's defeats of the Ottoman armies in modern-day Ukraine two hundred years later.

Traumatised New Zealand does not share the self-proclaimed crusader’s animus against the ghosts of the Ottoman Empire. But Turkey’s President has lent a perverse helping hand to the murderer’s twisted myth-making.

In blaming New Zealand for the deaths of 50 Muslims and the video of the carnage in Christchurch at rallies for Turkey’s looming local elections, Mr Erdogan not only antagonised a grieving country on the other side of the world but also scorned a rare example of historic reconciliation between previous warring parties.

Like Australia, modern New Zealand’s nationhood was formed by the brutal experience of tens of thousands of ANZACs fighting the Turks in the grisly Gallipoli campaign in the First World War. That war helped shape their identity. But the same battle was also a founding myth of modern Turkey, whose first president Mustafa Kemal Ataturk became a national hero for leading his men in thwarting the Allied invasion. Out of the wreckage of the Ottoman Empire, Ataturk emerged as his country’s saviour and founder of a new republic.

Ataturk sought reconciliation with his former enemies and set up a memorial to the fallen enemy buried at Gallipoli, assuring them that their bones now lay among “friends.” Attending ANZAC Day every 25 April - and seeing the Turkish Army salute the war dead of both sides - has now become a rite of passage for young New Zealanders and Aussies. Yet this year President Erdogan had a bloodcurdling warning for any visitor taken for an enemy after Christchurch. Should they come to Turkey "with bad intentions", he declared, following criticism from New Zealand for his decision to screen footage of the Christchurch massacre "they will return in coffins as their forefathers".

Turkey’s recent experience of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism has not only cost hundreds of lives but also depressed tourism very severely. With an economy already stalling, the President’s remarks seemed to promote economic suicide in addition to inflicting gratuitous injury. It seems a long time since the centenary in 2015 when Mr Erdogan welcomed huge numbers of ANZAC visitors, but then he was seeking integration into the EU and was presenting Turkey as a bastion of the West.

The Turkish President’s rhetoric muddies the water between Islamist extremists and his government. Hardly surprisingly, this puts off Western visitors. Overall tourist numbers are sharply down on 2014’s record year.

Economic and tourist downturns don’t seem to have weakened his grip on power so far. If anything, hard times reinforce his party’s faithful in the need for a hard man at the top. Blaming foreign speculators for the general economic squeeze plays well to enough Turks to rally them behind their president. Throwing in claims of a new Christian crusade might cost a few thousand more waiters and hotel cleaners their jobs but it seems a plus for Erdogan’s poll numbers where it counts.

In Erdogan’s electoral heartland, the Asian bulk of Turkey, blaming foreigners who are also unbelievers for any ills plays well. Turks of course can of course point to cases of anti-Turkish prejudice and Western double-standards. However, when it comes to “Do as I say not as I do”, President Erdogan can beat all comers at that game. His indignation at Assad’s bombardment of residential areas to root out rebels is matched by silence about his own repression of Kurdish districts in the south-east.

Worse still is Erdogan’s capricious habit of switching from praise to blame and vice-versa. The Turkish president used to condemn Russia’s president as a Muslim-killer from Chechnya to Syria before he fell out with his NATO allies and started referring to Vladimir Putin as a friend and put in an order for Russian anti-aircraft missiles rather than US ones.

New Zealand is the last place to look for new crusaders. It is the poster-child of post-modern embrace of diversity. By contrast, Erdogan risks trapping Turkey forever in a state of antagonism with the wider world over historic grievances which can never be reversed because they happened so long ago.

Turkey has too rich a heritage, valuable to the whole world, to let itself become reduced to a weapon of an embittered and self-isolating president. But, sadly, a nationalism manipulated to put emotional resentments ahead of rational self-interest can still come up trumps in Turkish politics. "

[Zenon33]

He's a terrorist, and more dangerous for the world than New Zealand's shooter.

[repulsewarrior]

...indeed, it certainly appears that way.

Erdogan is at war. He has made it so that, in the simplest terms there are "Turks", and those not "Turkish".

It seems a Sunni world would not even be enough for him, the Mayor of Istanbul (still) has i'm guessing his idea as a Legacy, his return, (with one more term as President), the Caliphate's Protector and the Muslim religion as a whole.

...will he go too far? It is an irony, with a small change of intentions, he may have his dream realised, and Peace, should he choose God, to serve, rather than the religion he declares as his; he is a religious man after all.
(as such, i am still Hopeful.)

[B25]

He's a terrorist, and more dangerous for the world than New Zealand's shooter.

Yes, but the EU/UK/US still love this MF, hence no action against him for anything he does.

[repulsewarrior]

...there is a big difference between Turkey, and the "new" Turkey Erdogan seeks to leave as his Legacy.

I am afraid B25 it is more complicated than that.

...over "Turks", Turks would agree with you, they are a scourge.

"Turks" out of Turkey, you may join in, in saying. The time is not right.

It is not that the UK/USA/EU, "love" him, there is History between Turkey, and them. One hopes that Turkey the State can survive Erdogan's leadership, there is the possibility of one more term as President, as such correct me if i'm wrong, by Turkey's Constitution. All in due time, i imagine these adversaries and more(Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Israel, Russia, to name a few), are saying individually, and some collectively, to themselves'.

...waiting to see how NZ Foreign Minister is greeted in Ankara.

[Paphitis]

Whilst the entire world (EU, USA, Australians et al) rallied their support behind New Zealand, Erdogan proved yet again how crazy he is.

Because the Aussie shooter wrote a "manifesto" and in this manifesto he mentioned that Constantinople and Hagia Sophia will one day be liberated from Islamic Occupation. Erdogan decided to respond to this lunatic by saying that Aussies and Kiwis will be all going home once again in coffin boxes (in reference to Galipoli) if ever they come to "liberate" Agia Sophia. This was Erdog's response to Australia and New Zealand.

Australian Prime Minister summonsed the Turkish Ambassador as the comments caused a diplomatic incident and massive offence.

Erdogan is not liked by either Australia or NZ. They think he is a lunatic in the same vain as Pootin.

I have said it before and I feel strongly about it. Shit stain countries like Turkey, and Russia should have their consulates shut down. It's pointless have them in Canberra and they are not welcome.

I would say Saudi Arabia too but they got too much oil and we need the access to these taps. So we tolerate them in our hypocrisy.

We do not need to trade with them either. We are resourceful buggers.

[Cap]

Erdogan defeated in Syria.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-new ... kUPoV3OcQA

[repulsewarrior]

...an interesting bit of reading, thanks.

...not a word about the NZ Minister's visit to Turkey; seems like Erdogan has soothed, his words were taken out of context, i read.

[Paphitis]

...an interesting bit of reading, thanks.

...not a word about the NZ Minister's visit to Turkey; seems like Erdogan has soothed, his words were taken out of context, i read.

That's what they say now but who does he think he is kidding?

Rather than send a normal message to New Zealand (and Australia) like all the other countries did, he stated that the Aussies and Kiwis will be sent home in Coffin Boxes like the ANZACs were if the Australian's and Kiwis come on a conquest for Constantinople and Hagia Sophia. To people who do not know, ANZAC Day is Australia's National Day of commemoration of all wars and conflicts around the world. It's not just about Galipoli or WW1 (Western Front) where Australia actually led the Allies to victory over the Germans under the Command of Field Marshal Monash (a very prominent academic and Zionist too) who also served at Galipoli as a General.

Why would Australia and New Zealand even contemplate such a thing anyway? It's literally insane.

Erdogan was responding to the lunatic Gunman's manifesto, proving that Erdogan is just as much a lunatic as him.

This Erdogan is very much like Pootin. 2 peas in a pod. They just talk it up with idiotic and crazy things to appear like the strongman for their own domestic consumption. You can just imagine what some people in Turkey would say.

The Australian Government was so upset at those comments they summonsed the Turkish Ambassador to meet with the Australian Prime Minister who wanted to convey his absolute offensive disgust to Erdogan.

That is when Erdogan started to do cartwheels backwards and said his comments were taken out of context. They were not taken out of context at all. If Erdogan was descent, he would apologize.

You won't get an apology from a madman.

Don't think for a second that erdogan is respected by the Americans, or Aussies or even the Kiwis and the EU. We all think he is an idiot! We don't like him. Erdogan isn't normal. He is the new wave of totalitarian leader we see in China and Russia as well. These people are sociopaths, and dangerous. It is leaders like this that are dangerous because they will snap and take their country to war over nothing.

[repulsewarrior]

Listening to American AM Talk Radio, the terrorist is describe as a, Eco Green Fascist, and specifically, not a White Supremacist.

...i ask myself, can't an individual be described as an Eco Green Fascist, and a White Supremacist; are the two mutually exclusive?