repulsewarrior wrote:...thank-you, Kikapu, i only wish i could say it better myself.
Kikapu wrote:Pyrpolizer wrote:Sotos wrote:
I know very well what TCs want because the TELL us what they want: Everything divided in two. Go ask the TCs how many of them accept a truly united Cyprus without any division of either the territory or among the citizens, and almost nobody will accept this. From this forum out of so many TCs we've seen over the years only Kikapu wants such thing. People like Kikapu are probably less than 1% among TCs, and partitionists like Akinci and Niyazi are NOTHING like Kikapu.
What we wanted was ENOSIS. Did you forget that? Enosis caused the reaction for partition. So much you know about our history….
Like I said the majority of TCs are happy with a BBF, Kikaku included.
just that we all understand my position on BBF, is that since BBF is what is agreed to by the sides and it is what has been negotiated for the last few decades, I too support BBF as a concept since it is the only thing on the table. Where many people are divided on BBF, are it's applications. To Turkey and the "trnc", they want BBF which had everything in the 1959 Zurich agreements and more. To the RoC, they want a Democratic system as it is practiced anywhere in the western world, and this was way before 2004 when the RoC became part of the EU. We all know what the majority TCs and Turks want in the BBF via the Annan Plan and we also know what the majority of the GCs do not want in the BBF, also via the Annan Plan. There lies the dilemma.
I personally do not want or trust any settlement based on anything close to or worse than the 1959 Zurich agreements in any new BBF agreements as those said agreements is what has caused all the problems that we have today. Most of us have seen that movie in real time, and repeating past mistakes will only lead to similar problems in the future. It is a system that was never design to succeed other than cause division of the people and the country, so why repeat it? Turkey would love to repeat it, using the TCs as it's foot soldiers to demand the return of the failed past agreements because the Turks want full control of the island, either directly or indirectly, and the only way they can ever hope to achieve that, is through another undemocratic agreements as the case was with the 1959 Zurich agreements.
The RoC is not going to allow such agreements to happen, and did not happen before 2004 when the RoC became a full member of the EU, and most definitely, it is not going to let it happen anytime in the future as an EU member state. If the numerical minority TCs are not going to trust a fully Democratic system built into BBF as an EU member state with all of it's safeguards on rule of law, Human Rights and International law, why would the numerical majority GCs trust an undemocratic system in the BBF that goes against all of the EU's values?
It is a waste of time for the TCs/Turks asking for such undemocratic agreements to be in the BBF unless they expect the repeat of past problems to reappear in the near future, and they will. There's no question about that in my mind Why would anyone want to repeat failed past policies and not give a chance to Democratic policies with EU values? The GCs/RoC wants to give a Democratic system a go and not the past failed undemocratic system so why won't the TCs/Turkey?
For Federal Democratic system to work, "Political Equality" can only be based on political equality of each state to each other via the upper house, with "one man one vote". Political Equality cannot be based on equality of communities, but only individual citizens. This is not rocket science and we do not need to re-invent the wheel on what Democracy is and how to apply it. Cyprus is in the EU and has no choice but to apply EU values to any new BBF agreements regardless what the TCs and the Turks wants otherwise. This is the reality of today, just as the reality of the partitioning of the island at present via invasion and occupation by Turkey. The TCs and Turkey holding occupied territory as a ransom to blackmail the GCs/RoC to a BBF settlement not based on EU values only prolongs the non settlement on the island. For the GCs and the RoC is an easy choice. Keep the current status quo as is over turning the clock back to the 1959 Zurich agreement and worse.
Having lived in the Democratic Federal Government System in the USA for 25 years and Democratic Federal Government System in Confederate Switzerland for 15 years, I would choose both countries systems any day of the week over the systems proposed by the TCs/Turkey, because it can never safeguard the islands future in a positive way, but the opposite would be the outcome. We are Europeans and must accept to live in western democratic system regardless which community is a numerical minority or which one is a numerical majority, since governments in Democratic countries are formed by political parties in the majority and not by communities in the majority.
I hope I have explained my position on BBF!
Lordo wrote:you are barking up the wrong tree my native american friend. cyprus is nothing like any other country. there are two main communities in cyprus and they deserve the right to not only rule themselves but also so self determination.
Lordo wrote:you are barking up the wrong tree my native american friend. cyprus is nothing like any other country. there are two main communities in cyprus and they deserve the right to not only rule themselves but also so self determination.
gcs will not be able to flood the north and take control of the north politically. only becasue bloodshed will ensue like in 1963 when they tried exactly that to reduce tcs to a minority.
it is time to tell the truth to gcs instead of inflaming their myths and fears. you either take it or leave it. bbf has a good system where each community can rule themselves without imposing their will on the other or the other's will imposed on them.
what happens in america can stay there as it is also full shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
switzerland is the most racist country on earth, they can keep it too.
cyprus for cypriots. thats it.
everything else is bullshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit of the first order.
Pyrpolizer wrote:You have explained your position very well Kiks.
My view is that in comparison with the Annan Plan or the 1960 agreements it's going to be worse in some aspects and better on others.
As for the future of TCs in case of no solution: Not bright, albeit a number of them have and will always be profiting.
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