Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

akinci had already accpeted to remove the troops in a phased way back to 650/900 formula and the gurantee to be replaced by an implementation plan which was a un suggestion.

I hope you are right. Any links in English?

[Paphitis]

I am not sure when exactly we the Gcs started wanting a united Cyprus.
Before 1974 or after??

You just reached a new high level of stupidity. Why would GCs want to be ethnically cleansed and have 1/3rd of their island stolen from them?

What I am sure though is that the chunk of Sot'o's ilk always wanted a Cyprus without Turks.
The coup against Makarios was simply because he chose the method of eradicating them slowly
whereas the Junta and Eoka B wanted it faster.

Makarios was elected by the great majority of GCs. So you are saying that "Soto's ilk" is the great majority of Cypriots, and that we wanted a Cyprus without Turks.
The answer to this depends on what kind of Turks we are talking about. If we are talking about Turks who collaborate with foreign powers to violate our rights and oppress us like they have done during Ottoman rule, then of course we would much prefer Cyprus free from them. Crete is free from such Turks and Crete doesn't have any such problems. But if the Turks were to accept democracy and human rights for all without discrimination then we would have no problem at all with them being in Cyprus as our equal compatriots, just like we have no problem with all the other minorities.

We are lucky to have been in Europe, and discovered hydrocarbons, and still have international recognition,
to have something to offer in exchange of a United Cyprus_with_Turks.

Our international recognition and EU membership were not a matter of luck. We are the native people and also the great majority of people of this island.

These are the elements that might possibly one day lead us to re-unification. Niazi is one of those people who
have enough brains left to know what is good for all Cypriots. There are people from all sides of the GC political spectrum
that respect him, in fact I remember he and Kate Klerides were once very close friends.
If he was the kind Soto's tries to portray not even one GC would even say kalimera to him, let aside have him joining a political party as a candidate for Euroelections

Sure, Niazi has brains. You are the one who doesn't. You have been fooled by GR who is a school drop out, so how hard would it be for a university professor to fool you?

Niazi is the same kind of partitionist as another friend of AKEL: Akinci. What they want is a thin layer of pretend unity under which absolutely everything is divided in two. Unfortunately there are idiot GCs who don't understand that this is not "unification" but the worst kind of partition. Even Yes Man Anastasiades has come to realize this recently. I don't how long AKEL will take to realize this, those idiots still didn't realize that communism has failed.

I got to agree with this post totally.

Well said Sotos!

[Sotos]

You just reached a new high level of stupidity. Why would GCs want to be ethnically cleansed and have 1/3rd of their island stolen from them?

Huh!? From the very first line you revealed you are such an ignorant regarding the history of Cyprus. An arrogant on top of it daring to call me stupid. I will just attempt to enlighten you a bit, but don’t expect me to teach you everything. You need a long way to go to just get the basics. Back to your question: Because nobody evaluated the risk from Turkey correctly. Turkey was always threatening but nobody expected it to invade, and even if it would, we thought we would tear them to pieces. After all our history taught us the Greeks always win. How could it be possible to lose against the Turks?

So "not evaluating the risk from Turkey correctly" is equivalent to "not wanting a united Cyprus"? You IQ keeps sinking lower and lower.

Of course we want a truly united Cyprus and we always did. It is the Turks who had and still have partition as their aim, and this includes the vast majority of them, including Akinci and Niyazi. The disagreement among TCs is just what FORM of partition they want. Some of them want 2 separate countries, the others realize that this is not possible so they prefer a disguised partition which also gives them the added bonus of EU membership and a share from the natural gas profits.

Makarios was elected by the great majority of GCs. So you are saying that "Soto's ilk" is the great majority of Cypriots, and that we wanted a Cyprus without Turks.
The answer to this depends on what kind of Turks we are talking about. If we are talking about Turks who collaborate with foreign powers to violate our rights and oppress us like they have done during Ottoman rule, then of course we would much prefer Cyprus free from them.

Any kind of Turks, meaning everybody who speaks Turkish even those among the TCs who knew more Greek than Turkish. If it weren’t the Turks we would eradicate the Maronites. And if it weren’t the Maronites we would eradicate the leftists.In the meantime we kept busy eradicating each other for been Makariakoi or Grivikoi. How little you know of our past poor Sotos!
As for who collaborated with who, may I remind you that we collaborated with Greece for the purpose of Enosis, which endangered the physical existence of TCs on the island just like it happened in Crete. Hence we left them no other choice than collaborate with Turkey.

Bullshit. We have many other minorities in Cyprus with which we co-exist in peace without any issues. The problem with the Turks is not that they speak a different language, but that they want to impose by force what they want and disrespect our democratic rights, one of which is to unite our own island with whomever we want. Just like Falklands, Gibraltar or Scotland choose to be part of the UK.

Crete is free from such Turks and Crete doesn't have any such problems. But if the Turks were to accept democracy and human rights for all without discrimination then we would have no problem at all with them being in Cyprus as our equal compatriots, just like we have no problem with all the other minorities.

It cost Greece more than what it gained. In our case Greece wanted to get bigger, not lose more lands. In fact what happened in Crete was what caused the TC fears in Cyprus from the 40s onwards.

The best solution for both Cyprus and Crete (and everywhere else) would be human rights for all and democracy, without discrimination. Don't you agree? It is the Turks who have expanded against our lands, not the other way around.

Our international recognition and EU membership were not a matter of luck. We are the native people and also the great majority of people of this island.

How little you know again. It’s not because we are the native people, but because Turkey actually invaded/occupied/ and ethically cleansed the GCs getting under it’s control a disproportional part compared to what was needed to safeguard the TCs. Had she taken about 18% we would today have 2 recognized states in Cyprus. Hence we were lucky in our misfortune. The EU membership was just a follow up, which btw made the TCs EU citizens as well, depriving the occupied administration of any EU rights.

Bullshit again. Even if they had taken 1% by ethnic cleansing and land grab it still wouldn't be recognized because it wouldn't belong to them. At best they could have declared as independent their own villages, but as we can see from cases like Catalonia, even this would be difficult to achieve international recognition.

Sure, Niazi has brains. You are the one who doesn't. You have been fooled by GR who is a school drop out, so how hard would it be for a university professor to fool you?

Really, have I? You are so pathetic Sotos, I started feeling sorry for you. Just stop mocking Lordo for been stupid, it looks you deserve 1st prize.

You are just throwing empty words. I am substantiating what I say. Didn't Get Real fool you a few days ago and made you believe that he hacked Youtube by merely showing you a screenshot?

Niazi is the same kind of partitionist as another friend of AKEL: Akinci. What they want is a thin layer of pretend unity under which absolutely everything is divided in two. Unfortunately there are idiot GCs who don't understand that this is not "unification" but the worst kind of partition. Even Yes Man Anastasiades has come to realize this recently. I don't how long AKEL will take to realize this, those idiots still didn't realize that communism has failed.

If you think Akinci is a partitionist then you better tie a rock on your neck and go get drowned in the sea. Denktash, Eroglu and the likes yes, but not Akinci. Furthermore you confuse communism with socialism. Akel today is not a communist party, but rather a socialist party. Socialism is about caring for the people. It doesn’t matter if they are Turks or Greeks.
As for what re-unification could be, it has already been agreed and what is left is the final details. Nobody cares if you like it or not, but don’t give me the bullshit it’s going to be the worst kind of partition. Tell that to the ignorant fanatics of ELAM . If on the other hand you think you are ever going to have a unitary state where you will throw the settlers in the sea, get back homes and lands, everybody back to his villages as in 1974, and the TCs would live under a minority status, then you are simply dreaming. Weak up!

Akinci is a partitionist like all the rest and I have already explained this.

If you think that unification is not possible, then just say so. What you do is to take the worst kind of partition and label it "unification", and this is what is stupid.

If a TRUE liberation of the north is not possible, then I would rather have no solution at all, or even agree to 2 state solution (if they return to us enough lands), which leaves the Turks out of the EU and without any share of our natural gas. Why the hell should I prefer a fake unification? So that I will reward the Settlers with EU citizenship, live in a dysfunctional country with Turkish vetoes, and give a free pass to 80 million Turks to roam the whole of Cyprus?

"AKEL, as a contemporary communist party, is guided by the ideology of Marxism – Leninism..." https://www.akel.org.cy/en/2014/02/16/t ... y-of-akel/

[repulsewarrior]

...i have never been able to convince myself that while Greek speaking, Crete, its people, are Greek. I feel the same way about Cyprus. Culturally they are older, and it is evident.

Indeed, what the "Greeks" did to the "Turks" in Greece, in Crete, and in Turkey, was atrocious. So too what "Turks" did to "Greeks".

Cyprus was not included as "Greek" or "Turkish" in this struggle both had, to become "Nations" in a Modern World. That says something in itself.

...all Cypriots should vote. I hope enough of them vote for candidates that represent Cypriots as Cypriots, that those "Greek" and "Turkish" are exposed as a minority, in Cyprus.

[Paphitis]

RW,

if you went to Crete and said that, the Cretans would have gutted you in the storm water drain.

[Pyrpolizer]

So "not evaluating the risk from Turkey correctly" is equivalent to "not wanting a united Cyprus"? You IQ keeps sinking lower and lower.

It have to step down to your IQ when you are asking silly questions. May I remind you that your question was : " Why would GCs want to be ethnically cleansed and have 1/3rd of their island stolen from them". The answer is precisely what I told you. In short: They didn’t want to, but they miscalculated the risk. Do you now get it, or you want further analysis?

Of course we want a truly united Cyprus and we always did. It is the Turks who had and still have partition as their aim, and this includes the vast majority of them, including Akinci and Niyazi. The disagreement among TCs is just what FORM of partition they want. Some of them want 2 separate countries, the others realize that this is not possible so they prefer a disguised partition which also gives them the added bonus of EU membership and a share from the natural gas profits.

We wanted a united Cyprus with equal rights, AFTER we violated their rights and plunged them to misery, and AFTER we were eventually defeated in a war my dear.
You have no idea what the majority of TCs want, you are just hypothesizing from the comfort of your chair. So spare the bullshit for someone else. In short the majority are happy with a BBF solution. It’s you who doesn’t like it, thinking it’s partition, and try to load the blame on them. Why don’t you blame the GCs and their leadership for accepting it, rather than blaming just them?

Bullshit. We have many other minorities in Cyprus with which we co-exist in peace without any issues. The problem with the Turks is not that they speak a different language, but that they want to impose by force what they want and disrespect our democratic rights, one of which is to unite our own island with whomever we want. Just like Falklands, Gibraltar or Scotland choose to be part of the UK.

You can be excused for having no clue of Cyprus’ past. We did not have any other minorities in the past. And you can’t compare the 2019 with the 60s. Different times different circumstances. What they, and what we, wanted before 1974 together with the reasons, plus how each side tried to get it on the expense of the other, are part of our history. It’s a complex issue. Go learn about it, rather than expecting easy answers from me.

The best solution for both Cyprus and Crete (and everywhere else) would be human rights for all and democracy, without discrimination. Don't you agree? It is the Turks who have expanded against our lands, not the other way around.

I ‘ve seen many Einsteins like you praising the ideal. For a start Democracy without discrimination is a very long process, not something you get from one day to another. Historically all democracies went through the process of war and bloodshed. Look at the US e.g. where the state itself was discriminating just a few decades ago. The people/corporations/private sector were always discriminating and they will continue for ever. Now if you think you are going to get the ideal Democracy -without dreaming on daylight like you do- then explain us how, after the Turks expanded against our lands as you said.

Bullshit again. Even if they had taken 1% by ethnic cleansing and land grab it still wouldn't be recognized because it wouldn't belong to them. At best they could have declared as independent their own villages, but as we can see from cases like Catalonia, even this would be difficult to achieve international recognition.

In your opinion of course.

You are just throwing empty words. I am substantiating what I say. Didn't Get Real fool you a few days ago and made you believe that he hacked Youtube by merely showing you a screenshot?

No, he made total fools of both you and Paphitis, by offering to sell you the script that hacks Youtube. You can always visit GR for a demo at no cost, to find out what a know-it-all fool you are.

[repulsewarrior]

..."not evaluating the risk from Turkey correctly", is an understatement, if it is not entirely wrong.

It would not surprise me if Greece and Turkey had a plan to split the island, but no one expected the People of Cyprus to reject the coup, even though "they" had succeeded in removing Makarios.

...of course it should have been expected, with the Junta's failure, that Turkey would invade on their own, much more. Neither, in fact had an interest in Cypriots, as Cypriots, and in effect Makarios signed the Zurich Agreement to prevent Cyprus from being subjected to their plans to divide it. While Makarios may have seen Cyprus as Greek, and while he relied too much on "Greeks" and "Turks" being civil as members of a Family of Man, he did succeed in establishing a Constituency that has since then worked to sustain their Cypriot identity as Cypriots. Makarios did not witness the "Greeks'" latest betrayal, the resulting Financial Crisis. And in this recovery, naysayers (still) continue to consider the Flag of Cyprus a rag. Although their fears should not be overlooked, they must also be overcome; lines have been drawn just the same.

[repulsewarrior]

RW,

if you went to Crete and said that, the Cretans would have gutted you in the storm water drain.

I agree with you, i don't doubt "Greeks" in Crete would like to slit my throat. It is something to think about, isn't it Paphitis.

[Sotos]

It have to step down to your IQ when you are asking silly questions. May I remind you that your question was : " Why would GCs want to be ethnically cleansed and have 1/3rd of their island stolen from them". The answer is precisely what I told you. In short: They didn’t want to, but they miscalculated the risk. Do you now get it, or you want further analysis?

So you don't understand the difference between "want to" and "miscalculated the risk"? If somebody miscalculates the risk of walking through a bad neighborhood and he gets murdered by some criminals does that mean that he wanted to die?

We wanted a united Cyprus with equal rights, AFTER we violated their rights and plunged them to misery, and AFTER we were eventually defeated in a war my dear.
You have no idea what the majority of TCs want, you are just hypothesizing from the comfort of your chair. So spare the bullshit for someone else. In short the majority are happy with a BBF solution. It’s you who doesn’t like it, thinking it’s partition, and try to load the blame on them. Why don’t you blame the GCs and their leadership for accepting it, rather than blaming just them?

Wrong again. We ALWAYS wanted a united Cyprus with equal rights, and it is the Turks who NEVER accepted this and imposed discrimination based on race so they can have gains on our expense. They did this during Ottoman rule, they did this with the racist 1960 constidution that was imposed on us, and now they are blackmailing us again for more racist discriminations.

I know very well what TCs want because the TELL us what they want: Everything divided in two. Go ask the TCs how many of them accept a truly united Cyprus without any division of either the territory or among the citizens, and almost nobody will accept this. From this forum out of so many TCs we've seen over the years only Kikapu wants such thing. People like Kikapu are probably less than 1% among TCs, and partitionists like Akinci and Niyazi are NOTHING like Kikapu.

You can be excused for having no clue of Cyprus’ past. We did not have any other minorities in the past. And you can’t compare the 2019 with the 60s. Different times different circumstances. What they, and what we, wanted before 1974 together with the reasons, plus how each side tried to get it on the expense of the other, are part of our history. It’s a complex issue. Go learn about it, rather than expecting easy answers from me.

I know very well the history of my country. Both the majority (GCs) and all other ethnic minorities except the Turks wanted only what they deserved - nothing more and nothing less. It is only the Turkish minority which NEVER accepted democracy and ALWAYS insisted on racist discriminations so they can gain on our expense and on the expense of every other Cypriot minority as well.

I ‘ve seen many Einsteins like you praising the ideal. For a start Democracy without discrimination is a very long process, not something you get from one day to another. Historically all democracies went through the process of war and bloodshed. Look at the US e.g. where the state itself was discriminating just a few decades ago. The people/corporations/private sector were always discriminating and they will continue for ever. Now if you think you are going to get the ideal Democracy -without dreaming on daylight like you do- then explain us how, after the Turks expanded against our lands as you said.

The process has existed in Cyprus as well. For example we suffered as second category people under the Ottomans for centuries. The problem is that the Turks do not want to progress because it doesn't suit them. In 2019 they insist on things that were outdated even in the 60s. I do not expect an "ideal democracy" but I expect a normal democracy like those that exist in all other EU countries, including what exists NOW in Cyprus. What we have now is not "ideal" but it is WAY better compared to what we will have with the undemocratic, racist, "solution" that the Turks want. So why should I want to legalize the partition with such a "solution", instead of the current partition we have now?

Bullshit again. Even if they had taken 1% by ethnic cleansing and land grab it still wouldn't be recognized because it wouldn't belong to them. At best they could have declared as independent their own villages, but as we can see from cases like Catalonia, even this would be difficult to achieve international recognition.

In your opinion of course.

In my opinion based on International law and real examples.

You are just throwing empty words. I am substantiating what I say. Didn't Get Real fool you a few days ago and made you believe that he hacked Youtube by merely showing you a screenshot?

No, he made total fools of both you and Paphitis, by offering to sell you the script that hacks Youtube. You can always visit GR for a demo at no cost, to find out what a know-it-all fool you are.

So you are such a fool that ever after I showed that GR was bullshiting you, and even after I replicated what GR was showing to you, you STILL believe his crap? If GR can fool you so easily then how hard would it be for the Turks to fool you?

[Pyrpolizer]

So you don't understand the difference between "want to" and "miscalculated the risk"? If somebody miscalculates the risk of walking through a bad neighborhood and he gets murdered by some criminals does that mean that he wanted to die?

I answered you 3 times so far: No, but he miscalculated the risk. What is it that you didn’t understand?

Wrong again. We ALWAYS wanted a united Cyprus with equal rights, and it is the Turks who NEVER accepted this and imposed discrimination based on race so they can have gains on our expense. They did this during Ottoman rule, they did this with the racist 1960 constidution that was imposed on us, and now they are blackmailing us again for more racist discriminations.

I know very well what TCs want because the TELL us what they want: Everything divided in two. Go ask the TCs how many of them accept a truly united Cyprus without any division of either the territory or among the citizens, and almost nobody will accept this. From this forum out of so many TCs we've seen over the years only Kikapu wants such thing. People like Kikapu are probably less than 1% among TCs, and partitionists like Akinci and Niyazi are NOTHING like Kikapu.

What we wanted was ENOSIS. Did you forget that? Enosis caused the reaction for partition. So much you know about our history….
Like I said the majority of TCs are happy with a BBF, Kikaku included.

I know very well the history of my country. Both the majority (GCs) and all other ethnic minorities except the Turks wanted only what they deserved - nothing more and nothing less. It is only the Turkish minority which NEVER accepted democracy and ALWAYS insisted on racist discriminations so they can gain on our expense and on the expense of every other Cypriot minority as well.

We had a "perfect Democracy" from 1963-1974 doing as we pleased while 1/5th of our population was living in conditions of total misery in enclaves, eaten by fleas, with no medical care, no medicine, no food. Mainland Greek MPs who visited with Red Cross said they felt ashamed to be Greek. Read some books FCS. Half the responsibility was ours half their TMT’s. Plus the thieves among us who were burning their houses to make them leave and steal everything. Who in his right mind would ever accept such a "perfect Democracy"?

The process has existed in Cyprus as well. For example we suffered as second category people under the Ottomans for centuries. The problem is that the Turks do not want to progress because it doesn't suit them. In 2019 they insist on things that were outdated even in the 60s. I do not expect an "ideal democracy" but I expect a normal democracy like those that exist in all other EU countries, including what exists NOW in Cyprus. What we have now is not "ideal" but it is WAY better compared to what we will have with the undemocratic, racist, "solution" that the Turks want. So why should I want to legalize the partition with such a "solution", instead of the current partition we have now?

No such process ever existed in Cyprus. See above.
What such "solution"? The one you just imagine?

So you are such a fool that ever after I showed that GR was bullshiting you, and even after I replicated what GR was showing to you, you STILL believe his crap? If GR can fool you so easily then how hard would it be for the Turks to fool you?

You showed nothing. And yes I believe he can do it. Other than expressing doubt you haven’t proved anything, so stop fooling yourself.