Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

According to Morgan Stanley we are now in a Bear market. Just wait when The Raging Bull makes an entrance. Much depends on factors feeding the Bear. The Trade war with China being the most prolific Bear feeder. Wall street doesnt like it, Trump does realize this...

[Paphitis]

According to Morgan Stanley we are now in a Bear market. Just wait when The Raging Bull makes an entrance. Much depends on factors feeding the Bear. The Trade war with China being the most prolific Bear feeder. Wall street doesnt like it, Trump does realize this...

I'm anticipating a bear market for a while mainly because of Brexit and USA protectionist policies.

But after you always get that raging bull. Should happen within 2 years.

Trump's policies could be the catalyst against the UN, one world Government and more and more countries are following .

The USA, Australia, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, Bulgaria, Republic of Macedonia, Serbia, Czech Republic, and Poland refused to sign the UN treaty on refugees yesterday.

[Paphitis]

And the really strange thing is that Tsipras signed when he should have been the first to NOT sign.

Greece has been sold out.....

[miltiades]

Right now Tomtom is at 7.55€ , my set target for selling , making around 120€. Decided, having watched it recover from 7.33 to stick around? Besides, €120 isn't a great sum.im now watching Galapagos, should drop down to $75 I shall be tempted to buy.

[miltiades]

Sold Tomtom at 7.58 making me a profit of 150 €.
This ....pile of shit has made me thus far $767, not bad !!

[miltiades]

Sold Tomtom at 7.58 making me a profit of 150 €.
This ....pile of shit has made me thus far $767, not bad !!

Early morning trading saw Tomtom down to 7.34
At approx. 12.38 an analyst, whose name I forget, upgraded Tomtom, simple the markets react sending the price to around 7.62. Short lived like most " upgrades".
Now I know that Hedge fund has ecpressed
An interest in the company. Thus far just an expression of interest. Speculative trading
is not learned overnight, its many years of experience , its knowing what sparks an increase in the price. The number one factor is of course a bid, however there are many others that can up or down a price.
I do hope that our two resident " experts" take note. What next with Tomtom ?
A firm expression of interest by anyone.

[Pyrpolizer]

I retrieved the IPO prospectus to find out the number of shares in circulation. Now whether they were offered at 17.50 Euros or 0.20 is not a big deal, but the ammount of shares are because from that we can determine the market capitalization.

You claimed that there were 120 million shares at 60 Euros, but in actual fact there were only 26 million shares.

I accept on looking at it further that Tom Tom listed at about $17 per share as per the IPO. They only issued 26 million shares though.

The information is right here:

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ ... o_2005.pdf

https://www.historicalstockprice.com/to ... ck-prices/

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/s ... trycode=nl

No thanks I am not interested for a Kolokasi brain's soup.
ALL your links are irrelevant.The traded volume has nothing to do with the outstanding shares.
You have 24 hours left.

Oh right, so what you are saying is this:

Tom Tom was not worth 120 million x 60 euros = 7.2 Billion Euros (Tom Tom has never been a mid cap)

It was worth 26 million x 60 Euros = 1.6 Billion (Tom Tom has always been a small cap)

Yes I get it because what you said wads wrong. the market NEVER over prices a stock by a factor of 10 (those were your words kolokasi brains)

The market has the ability of actually appraising stocks in accordance with the fundamental values that the market is willing to pay.

Paphitis you are jumping and twisting as usual. What's your point trying to present me irrelevant or fallacious data ??
The issue is very simple and you already wasted me more than 20 pages trying to save face:
For the last time, this is what you said

The traded value of a share "should translate to the approximate real value of the entire company"

I never gave you any number of what this company's worth.
What I told you is your statement is utterly wrong because if it were true then at boom time it should have worth 7.2 Billion Euros (yes you got that multiplication right) whereas with today's 30B shares it would be about 2.1. The first number is impossible to be true for various reasons including the fact that it should increase over the years considering the various acquisitions.
Your second number of 1.6B is totally fallacious so no comments about that.
Please make sure you understood that I am not claiming any specific value for this company. (I feel the need to stress this otherwise after a few days you may once again put words in my mouth that I never said.)

And since we are here show me where did I say that "the market over prices a stock by a factor of 10" Kolokasi_brain of the 50s. I gave you my exact words together with a link but you are such a bonehead you missed it.
The ball's on you now. Show me!

Your silence for an answer once again. Will you ever show me or not?

You write beautiful rosy high school level essays that could well get you a straight A in high school. At any higher level though, where nonsense counts, you would be whining as to why you were graded with a big F.

The traded value of a share "should translate to the approximate real value of the entire company"

Me save face? You're kidding right.

The stock markets have been trading with Billions of investors around the world since the 19th century and yet you purport that all of these investors are gamblers.

If the market was so crooked, it wouldn't be so successful. Each year, the markets get bigger and stronger and add wealth to most people who know how to invest responsibly. There are millions of brokers and fund managers who make a good living by advising and managing trillions worth of funds each year on behalf of others and these people get more wealthy each year on average by about 12%

Another rosy essay with nonsense. Did you at least check this 12% Vs the seemingly impressive Dow Jones chart??

You claimed that Tom Tom had a market value of 120 million shares by 60 Euros, but the fact is it was only a spike and the amount of shares were only 26 million in 2006. You insinuated that Tom Tom's market cap reached 7.2 Billion when it only declares a 35 million Euro profit that year. That is impossible.

Jesus you still repeat the same fallacies. IT WAS NOT 26M in 2006. That was in 2005 immediately after they entered the stock market. By the end of 2006 it was about 116M and by the end of 2007 120M. And I didn’t insinuate anything. I said that if your statement that "the traded value of a share should translate to the approximate real value of the entire company" WAS TRUE… {Lets place a full stop here to make sure you got the first part of the IF statement} then at the boom date the value of the entire company should have been 7.2 billion. I already said that’s IMPOSSIBLE. You are repeating my own words. Trying to prove what?? That you are insane and don’t understand where you got everything wrong?

I asked you to prove your statements but all you come up with is insults.

I have nothing left to prove other than provide you official documents confirming the number of outstanding shares at the precise dates I talked about. I gave you the chance to find them yourself within 24 hours. So far you failed. You have 6 more hours left. After that I will provide them myself without any further request. As for the insults you started it Re:Kolokasi blah blah

I have backed up my statements with evidence straight from the company's 2005 prospectus:

26 million shares on offer at a value of 17.5 Euros, which eventually spiked to 60 Euros because the IPO was over subscribed.

It’s turning out to be a solid forum rule that all your backings are irrelevant. This one is no exception. But since we are here could you please tell me how much profit those 26 million suckers made so far, by buying at the invitation price of 17.50 Euros while our resident gambler bought it just yesterday for about 7.50?

The market is an investment stream. A very valid investment stream which generally adds wealth to people who conservatively invest in it in a structure manner. The numbers and figures do not lie.



Let’s see how much of an investment stream the markets are:
And let’s see if they average out 12% per annum as per your previous claim.

For a start your DJIA chart is not appropriate because it only reflects price gains. In fact if you follow the same procedure I will follow you will find the price gains were only 4.13%
I will use this chart instead pressing the max button. It contains both price gain and dividend gains

Investing 19,220 in January 2000 should by now in year end of 2018 according to the chart deliver about 53,887
The compound percentage gain over these 19 years is 5.57% (your chart would yield 4.13%)
To verify get a calculator and punch (19220) *(1.055759^19).
The average inflation rate in the US over these years is 2.2%.
Data from here
So for an American or anyone the net gain is 3.37% per year.
Not impressive to me, and certainly way off from your dream value of 12%
Certainly not worthy for anyone whose home country inflation rate is higher, and probably not worthy for anyone who has to exchange his currency.

Millions of people around the globe are in Pension Funds which invest in these very markets and they have been doing this since the depression.

YOU MUST BE JOKING thinking because they are millions they should be right
Do you have to be a rocket scientist to realize from simple charts like the one you posted that the stock market are ALREADY ON A HUGE BUBBLE ROUTE?
The question is not if they will ever collapse, but WHEN THEY WILL COLLAPSE.

[Pyrpolizer]

the fact is it was only a spike and the amount of shares were only 26 million in 2006.

OK time is up,
You proved totally incapable of figuring out how to do a Google search, that would deliver you what you really want to know.
Google doesn't provide ready on the plate answers you know. You have to use your brain a bit to make it deliver meaningful results.

Directly from TomTom:
https://corporate.tomtom.com/news-relea ... 07-results

All you have to do to find the number of outstanding shares is divide the Net Profit (in million) by the Earning per Share (EPS) in the Audited columns for both 2006 and 2007

So how many were they Paphitis in 2006:
26 million or 116 million
How many in 2007
26 million or 120 million

[miltiades]

Pyrpolizer, forget the past, utterly irrelevant. The name of the game is to buy at 7.43- NOT 7.50 AS YOU WROTE- and sell in less than 24 hours at 7.58. This is speculative trading not as you naively say gambling.
With gambling you either win or lose your entire bet, with speculative trading you win
Some or lose some. You do not lose your entire " bet". I can see that you have never played the market. By the way do you, by any chance, know of any other ...pile of shit stocks , Im getting to like them. Im not done with Tomtom yet not by a long run, there is dosh , big dosh to be made. Just watch and learn.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyrpolizer, forget the past, utterly irrelevant. The name of the game is to buy at 7.43- NOT 7.50 AS YOU WROTE- and sell in less than 24 hours at 7.58. This is speculative trading not as you naively say gambling.
With gambling you either win or lose your entire bet, with speculative trading you win
Some or lose some. You do not lose your entire " bet". I can see that you have never played the market. By the way do you, by any chance, know of any other ...pile of shit stocks , Im getting to like them. Im not done with Tomtom yet not by a long run, there is dosh , big dosh to be made. Just watch and learn.

Oldboy I said about 7.50 because my point WAS NOT your exact gambling point, but the comparison with the 17.50 that some suckers paid initially. You sound more dotard than what I thought.
You are right I never did speculative trading because it's gambling. It doesn't matter if you win or lose 100% or 10%.
As long as your chance is 50% it's gambling.
I am not convinced you ever gained anything from this stupid activity, and I believe you are fooling everybody in here.
I may just as well say I bought Ripple in peace when it hit the 0.40 low and next day fool everybody that I sold it at 0.44.
That's what you are doing...