Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Thanks Paphitis.

It's obviously a matter of supply and demand.

Is there really a shortage of pilots or are the companies trying to steal already trained pilots from each other?

One of my cousins who was working for Cyprus Airways once told me that years ago they used to pay all their expenses to get them trained on the Airbus. However they later dropped it and were only hiring people who did the training paying out of their own pockets.
He didn't specify how much it costs, but he said it was huge.
Is this the trend today?

[Paphitis]

Thanks Paphitis.

It's obviously a matter of supply and demand.

Is there really a shortage of pilots or are the companies trying to steal already trained pilots from each other?

One of my cousins who was working for Cyprus Airways once told me that years ago they used to pay all their expenses to get them trained on the Airbus. However they later dropped it and were only hiring people who did the training paying out of their own pockets.
He didn't specify how much it costs, but he said it was huge.
Is this the trend today?

Most companies are paying for your endorsements. Some expect you to be pre-qualified which means that either you have the endorsement or you go out and pay for it.

The companies that pay for your endorsement, may bond you which means if you leave early, they might go after you for the endorsement cost which is a considerable sum. The Americans for instance will pay for all your endorsements, and they will pay for your FAA conversions but the will bond you. The term is 5 years.

Companies are trying to steal or poach pilots from wherever they can get them.

Not long ago, there was a huge oversupply. So pay and conditions were in sharp decline from the 80s and 90s. But what happened is that companies were shooting themselves in the foot in reality as thousands of pilots retired prematurely and just dropped out of the industry. So the shortage is a fake shortage. Pilots do actually exist, but lots dropped out a long time ago, because their lifestyle dropped. There is also a sharp reduction in people learning to fly and the biggest suppliers of pilots now is probably the military. Learning to fly is very expensive.

No one knows how long this "shortage" is going to last for. But right now, companies have gone from one extreme of cutting pay and conditions to the other extreme of paying massive amounts. Some companies are however resisting. For instance, Australian companies are trying to pay a lot less but are opening cadet programs. So they get a kid from high school, pay everything and Bond them for 10 years and pay them well below par. They are going to have a very sharp rise in incidents and accidents as well, they just will never admit it. These pilots can never become Captains though. They have to leave to get their command time and come back.

There are other companies like Aegean who are trying to pay Captains 8K Euros a month. How they think this is competitive I have no idea. So now there is a massive pool of Greeks in Turkish Airlines who do pay quite a bit. A lot of Cyprus Airways are now at Emirates, Etihad, Qatar and there are a few at other small ones like Aegean, Air Arabia and also Kuwait Airlines.

Emirates and Etihad are finding it hard also. Emirates have 50 wide bodies parked up because they have no crew. This is according to one of their Cypriot pilots. So they are going crazy. The airlines have these roadshows. They go everywhere and hire a conference center and invite us all and they have pilots, recruiters, agents ready to pounce on anyone that comes. Even they have contracts ready and they will try and get signatures. It's literally insane. We get these emails for roadshows from Chinese companies, Emirates, Etihad, and even Turkish Airlines had one just last month where a whole team traveled to Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Singapore, and so on.

They get your emails from crew already working for them. For instance, I know a lot of people at Turkish Airlines, They forward my details, or they farm us from professional career websites.

[Pyrpolizer]

Quite informative Paphitis.
My cousin is with Aegean now.
He likes complaining that the money is not enough, and that he's always in debt. Go figure....

[Paphitis]

Quite informative Paphitis.
My cousin is with Aegean now.
He likes complaining that the money is not enough, and that he's always in debt. Go figure....

They don't pay well.

Only Captains get 8000 Euros per month and First Officers get 5000 Euros per month plus call outs and overnight per diems.

Engineers are also paid quite well for Greece. I would say they too would be on anywhere between 5000 and 10000 per month.

The rest are anywhere between 600 and 1200 Euros.

[Pyrpolizer]

Quite informative Paphitis.
My cousin is with Aegean now.
He likes complaining that the money is not enough, and that he's always in debt. Go figure....

They don't pay well.

Only Captains get 8000 Euros per month and First Officers get 5000 Euros per month plus call outs and overnight per diems.

Engineers are also paid quite well for Greece. I would say they too would be on anywhere between 5000 and 10000 per month.

The rest are anywhere between 600 and 1200 Euros.

No he was a pilot in CA. He must have been a captain by now, I don't know, I rarely see him.
It's just that he changes from one expensive car to another, from one huge house to another, last thing I saw him driving was a Range Rover as big as an army tank.

Last time my aunt said he got a new house and explained me where about it was.
when I passed by the road I looked and there was a huge house on top of the hill.
The crazy guy must have bought the whole hill, cut the top and built a house up there.

And then he complains he's always in debt....

[Paphitis]

Quite informative Paphitis.
My cousin is with Aegean now.
He likes complaining that the money is not enough, and that he's always in debt. Go figure....

They don't pay well.

Only Captains get 8000 Euros per month and First Officers get 5000 Euros per month plus call outs and overnight per diems.

Engineers are also paid quite well for Greece. I would say they too would be on anywhere between 5000 and 10000 per month.

The rest are anywhere between 600 and 1200 Euros.

No he was a pilot in CA. He must have been a captain by now, I don't know, I rarely see him.
It's just that he changes from one expensive car to another, from one huge house to another, last thing I saw him driving was a Range Rover as big as an army tank.

Last time my aunt said he got a new house and explained me where about it was.
when I passed by the road I looked and there was a huge house on top of the hill.
The crazy guy must have bought the whole hill, cut the top and built a house up there.

And then he complains he's always in debt....

Well if he is a Pilot at Aegean he wouldn't be doing it too tough.

5K for FOs and 8K for Captains and there are additional allowances for reserve callout and overnights as well. There are not many people that earn this amount in Cyprus.

Sounds like he is stupid with his money.

[Kikapu]

Paphitis,

Few points came to my mind today regarding your situation with the E-3 visa, which might have negative issues which you might not face if you had a Green Card.

If you start working in the US, you will be in the max income tax bracket with your expected income. You will be in the 37% bracket more than likely. Then you will have state income tax, usually around 5-6%. Then the usual state sales tax which are around 10%. Some states do not have state income tax or sales tax. California has all of them.

Then you will have about 6% Social Security tax for your state pension, which is what I want to talk about. In order for you to qualify to get any SS benefit when you retire, you will need to have at least 40 credits, which means, you can only get one credit per quarter, which makes it 4 credits a year, which means you must work for 10 years minimum to qualify. As long as you are working in the US, no problem, however, with your E-3 visa, should the company decides to lay you off after 8 years and you have not found another job under the E-3 program withing 10 days starting the new job from the last one (according to the link you have provided earlier), you will basically have your E-3 visa cancelled I would presume. My point is, for whatever reason you do not complete the 40 credits, you will not be able to receive any SS benefits when you retire, say in Australia and all the money you and your partner have put into it, will be lost if you are told to leave the the USA before you get your 40 SS credits each.

The other issue is the company pension, which these days you and the company pay towards it. Find out how many years it would take to be vested in their company pension as each airline is different depending what the collective bargaining the Unions have with the company. It could be 5 years or more. Often we overlook these little things when retirement is still far away for some, but you need to be on top of these important issues. So, aside from looking for a good immigration attorney for a Green Card issues, I would also recommend you looking for a Tax expert for the US to advice you and your partner regarding these issues. All these will add up to thousands of dollars, so make sure you do not lose them by oversight. If you get a Green Card eventually, any kind of work you will do if not flying under E-3 program, you can build your minimum 40 credits as there is no time limit until you retire, so that you will not lose your SS benefits, even if you retire in Australia eventually.

Here are some info.

One Social Security credit will require more earnings

In order to qualify for Social Security benefits, you'll need to earn 40 Social Security "quarters of coverage," which are also known as Social Security credits.

For 2019, one credit translates to $1,360 in earnings, an increase of $40 from 2018. This may not sound like a lot of money (and it isn't, for most workers), but it's important to note that you can only earn four credits per year.

The maximum Social Security benefit will be $73 higher

Finally, because Social Security benefits are limited by the maximum taxable earnings from each year (which rises over time), the maximum possible Social Security benefit is increasing for 2019, as well.

For 2019, the most someone claiming Social Security at full retirement age can get is $2,861 per month. Of course, this could become even higher if workers entitled to the maximum decide to wait longer to claim. If they claim in 2019, a beneficiary's full retirement age is still 66 years old (born in 1953), so if they were to wait until they turn 70 in 2023, their benefit would start at $3,776.52 plus any additional COLAs that are given between now and then.

Tax brackets 2018-2019
Taxable income Tax on this income
0 - $18,200 Nil
$18,201 - $37,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
$37,001 - $90,000 $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000
$90,001 - $180,000 $20,797 plus 37c for each $1 over $90,000

[Paphitis]

Paphitis,

Few points came to my mind today regarding your situation with the E-3 visa, which might have negative issues which you might not face if you had a Green Card.

If you start working in the US, you will be in the max income tax bracket with your expected income. You will be in the 37% bracket more than likely. Then you will have state income tax, usually around 5-6%. Then the usual state sales tax which are around 10%. Some states do not have state income tax or sales tax. California has all of them.

Then you will have about 6% Social Security tax for your state pension, which is what I want to talk about. In order for you to qualify to get any SS benefit when you retire, you will need to have at least 40 credits, which means, you can only get one credit per quarter, which makes it 4 credits a year, which means you must work for 10 years minimum to qualify. As long as you are working in the US, no problem, however, with your E-3 visa, should the company decides to lay you off after 8 years and you have not found another job under the E-3 program withing 10 days starting the new job from the last one (according to the link you have provided earlier), you will basically have your E-3 visa cancelled I would presume. My point is, for whatever reason you do not complete the 40 credits, you will not be able to receive any SS benefits when you retire, say in Australia and all the money you and your partner have put into it, will be lost if you are told to leave the the USA before you get your 40 SS credits each.

The other issue is the company pension, which these days you and the company pay towards it. Find out how many years it would take to be vested in their company pension as each airline is different depending what the collective bargaining the Unions have with the company. It could be 5 years or more. Often we overlook these little things when retirement is still far away for some, but you need to be on top of these important issues. So, aside from looking for a good immigration attorney for a Green Card issues, I would also recommend you looking for a Tax expert for the US to advice you and your partner regarding these issues. All these will add up to thousands of dollars, so make sure you do not lose them by oversight. If you get a Green Card eventually, any kind of work you will do if not flying under E-3 program, you can build your minimum 40 credits as there is no time limit until you retire, so that you will not lose your SS benefits, even if you retire in Australia eventually.

Here are some info.

One Social Security credit will require more earnings

In order to qualify for Social Security benefits, you'll need to earn 40 Social Security "quarters of coverage," which are also known as Social Security credits.

For 2019, one credit translates to $1,360 in earnings, an increase of $40 from 2018. This may not sound like a lot of money (and it isn't, for most workers), but it's important to note that you can only earn four credits per year.

The maximum Social Security benefit will be $73 higher

Finally, because Social Security benefits are limited by the maximum taxable earnings from each year (which rises over time), the maximum possible Social Security benefit is increasing for 2019, as well.

For 2019, the most someone claiming Social Security at full retirement age can get is $2,861 per month. Of course, this could become even higher if workers entitled to the maximum decide to wait longer to claim. If they claim in 2019, a beneficiary's full retirement age is still 66 years old (born in 1953), so if they were to wait until they turn 70 in 2023, their benefit would start at $3,776.52 plus any additional COLAs that are given between now and then.

Tax brackets 2018-2019
Taxable income Tax on this income
0 - $18,200 Nil
$18,201 - $37,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
$37,001 - $90,000 $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000
$90,001 - $180,000 $20,797 plus 37c for each $1 over $90,000

The tax brackets appear to be similar to Australia Kikapu.

As for SS contributions, we have what we call Superannuation Contributions in Australia which is a way of saving and investing for your retirement so you can get a self funded pension from a fund. I would be crazy to not continue making 'voluntary' contributions to my pension fund in Australia. So if things don't work out for whatever reason, I have that to fall back on. Even if I stay in the USA, I can claim my Australian Super and Pension fund still and draw on it whenever I need to.

But yes I am aware of the loopholes. I don't really know how to address them. I could get a Green Card but you can also get stitched. So I would say I will need to speak to the airline and a lawyer that specializes in these things because there are minefields ahead and I don't want to step on one.

It's the same situation for guys that go to the Middle East and China. I presume these guys don't want to stay there forever because why would you want to. But these guys go their because the tax rate is zero or 10%.

My only ambition is to look after my kiddos. I really don't care if the US grant me citizenship or not. I want my kids to get it mainly for the education opportunities and maybe even future career opportunities or just having choices in life and the ability to live there if they want to. They are great kids too, so the US should be very happy to accept people like them into their fold. They will be contributing members of any society whether in the US or Australia because that is how they are being raised.

I would be more than happy to retire in Australia and have my kids as US citizens.

[Kikapu]

Paphitis,

Few points came to my mind today regarding your situation with the E-3 visa, which might have negative issues which you might not face if you had a Green Card.

If you start working in the US, you will be in the max income tax bracket with your expected income. You will be in the 37% bracket more than likely. Then you will have state income tax, usually around 5-6%. Then the usual state sales tax which are around 10%. Some states do not have state income tax or sales tax. California has all of them.

Then you will have about 6% Social Security tax for your state pension, which is what I want to talk about. In order for you to qualify to get any SS benefit when you retire, you will need to have at least 40 credits, which means, you can only get one credit per quarter, which makes it 4 credits a year, which means you must work for 10 years minimum to qualify. As long as you are working in the US, no problem, however, with your E-3 visa, should the company decides to lay you off after 8 years and you have not found another job under the E-3 program withing 10 days starting the new job from the last one (according to the link you have provided earlier), you will basically have your E-3 visa cancelled I would presume. My point is, for whatever reason you do not complete the 40 credits, you will not be able to receive any SS benefits when you retire, say in Australia and all the money you and your partner have put into it, will be lost if you are told to leave the the USA before you get your 40 SS credits each.

The other issue is the company pension, which these days you and the company pay towards it. Find out how many years it would take to be vested in their company pension as each airline is different depending what the collective bargaining the Unions have with the company. It could be 5 years or more. Often we overlook these little things when retirement is still far away for some, but you need to be on top of these important issues. So, aside from looking for a good immigration attorney for a Green Card issues, I would also recommend you looking for a Tax expert for the US to advice you and your partner regarding these issues. All these will add up to thousands of dollars, so make sure you do not lose them by oversight. If you get a Green Card eventually, any kind of work you will do if not flying under E-3 program, you can build your minimum 40 credits as there is no time limit until you retire, so that you will not lose your SS benefits, even if you retire in Australia eventually.

Here are some info.

One Social Security credit will require more earnings

In order to qualify for Social Security benefits, you'll need to earn 40 Social Security "quarters of coverage," which are also known as Social Security credits.

For 2019, one credit translates to $1,360 in earnings, an increase of $40 from 2018. This may not sound like a lot of money (and it isn't, for most workers), but it's important to note that you can only earn four credits per year.

The maximum Social Security benefit will be $73 higher

Finally, because Social Security benefits are limited by the maximum taxable earnings from each year (which rises over time), the maximum possible Social Security benefit is increasing for 2019, as well.

For 2019, the most someone claiming Social Security at full retirement age can get is $2,861 per month. Of course, this could become even higher if workers entitled to the maximum decide to wait longer to claim. If they claim in 2019, a beneficiary's full retirement age is still 66 years old (born in 1953), so if they were to wait until they turn 70 in 2023, their benefit would start at $3,776.52 plus any additional COLAs that are given between now and then.

Tax brackets 2018-2019
Taxable income Tax on this income
0 - $18,200 Nil
$18,201 - $37,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
$37,001 - $90,000 $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000
$90,001 - $180,000 $20,797 plus 37c for each $1 over $90,000

The tax brackets appear to be similar to Australia Kikapu.

As for SS contributions, we have what we call Superannuation Contributions in Australia which is a way of saving and investing for your retirement so you can get a self funded pension from a fund. I would be crazy to not continue making 'voluntary' contributions to my pension fund in Australia. So if things don't work out for whatever reason, I have that to fall back on. Even if I stay in the USA, I can claim my Australian Super and Pension fund still and draw on it whenever I need to.

But yes I am aware of the loopholes. I don't really know how to address them. I could get a Green Card but you can also get stitched. So I would say I will need to speak to the airline and a lawyer that specializes in these things because there are minefields ahead and I don't want to step on one.

It's the same situation for guys that go to the Middle East and China. I presume these guys don't want to stay there forever because why would you want to. But these guys go their because the tax rate is zero or 10%.

My only ambition is to look after my kiddos. I really don't care if the US grant me citizenship or not. I want my kids to get it mainly for the education opportunities and maybe even future career opportunities or just having choices in life and the ability to live there if they want to. They are great kids too, so the US should be very happy to accept people like them into their fold. They will be contributing members of any society whether in the US or Australia because that is how they are being raised.

I would be more than happy to retire in Australia and have my kids as US citizens.

Great. That was the point I was going to make but forgot, which was for you to continue contributing to your pension in Australia if you are working abroad. You are ahead of me already.

[B25]

With all due respect, but why don't you two Kiks and Paphiti pm each other with all this crap. Who gives a f what the airlines pay, employ and whatever else.