Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

My provlepsis is that GR is slowly but surely becoming agnostic stage 1. Stage 2 is rejecting the notion of a creator and accepting science.
Again I reiterate. There is NO creator, man created God, evolution over millions of yeats created the world we now have.

Yes, you just keep reiterating because I suspect you’re converting readers by the droves… must be something to do with your absolutist authoritarian monologues.

That always does the trick!

[Get Real!]

...and accepting science.

Science is precisely what proves the existence of God...

The universe is there ain't it?

Well whatever is responsible for it is our God!

That's science and basic common sense.

[cyprusgrump]

I was during Primary school years 1 through 3, I took whatever the Cypriot education system was teaching but I don’t remember any of it.

Then… the two last years of primary school in London which at the time included some Jesus stories, dinosaurs etc like you described. Then the first two years of secondary in London again… can’t remember much religion…

And then back to Cyprus again for secondary years 3 through 7 at a private English school where religious education was not obligatory and I wasn’t taking it.

I honestly can’t remember any religious influence from school and neither did I think much of dinosaurs when I was taught about them. Never really bought it...

So you admit you were taught religion...?

You weren't born with it, it is not a natural state, it isn't a random fact that you are not Amish or Buddha or Islamic...?

[Kikapu]

...as well as nothing was created in it’s evolved status as we know today, which is where evolution comes in.

We don't know that for a fact and I see no reason why God would need to utilize evolution for the creation of species.

Why not just wave one's magic wand and place two chickens there? Why go through some long laborious process?

If you take evolution out of the creation equation, then all human species should all look the same for the males/females, but we are not all the same as we have all evolved differently depending from which part of the world we have stayed, adopting to those surroundings which we all evolved differently genetically, despite we all being created as humans by God and his magic wand!

The same process that leads to differences between the same species is what eventually leads to the creation of new species. It just takes a lot more time. Modern Humans have existed for about 200.000 years. Life on earth has existed for 3.8 billion years. This process is well understood and not disputed by any serious scientist.

So basically what you are saying is Sotos, that ALL living things on earth today has started as just one single cell amoeba 3.8 Billion years ago, and since that time, all species has evolved into different species, and over time and on and on and on until we have millions of species from that just one single cell amoeba. I can accept that as evolution, but there is still has to be a beginning with that single cell amoeba in the form of being created by something. Could that something be what we call, God, or was it just an accident that the amoeba became to be by the elements and minerals of that time 3.8 Billion years ago?

Just one more observation. Why is the planet earth is so different than all other planets in our solar system? Why does our earth has all the element needed for life as we know it and not the rest of the planets as far as we know? Surely if life only started as an single cell amoeba on earth, stands the reason to have life on other planets that is different from ours, but life that would be suitable for the elements and minerals found on those planets?

[Get Real!]

I was during Primary school years 1 through 3, I took whatever the Cypriot education system was teaching but I don’t remember any of it.

Then… the two last years of primary school in London which at the time included some Jesus stories, dinosaurs etc like you described. Then the first two years of secondary in London again… can’t remember much religion…

And then back to Cyprus again for secondary years 3 through 7 at a private English school where religious education was not obligatory and I wasn’t taking it.

I honestly can’t remember any religious influence from school and neither did I think much of dinosaurs when I was taught about them. Never really bought it...

So you admit you were taught religion...?

You weren't born with it, it is not a natural state, it isn't a random fact that you are not Amish or Buddha or Islamic...?

You started out by implying that I was brainwashed which is not the case, and have now moved the goalposts to “taught” so I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

I could ask you the same for whatever it’s worth… were you ever taught religion?

[Sotos]

I was during Primary school years 1 through 3, I took whatever the Cypriot education system was teaching but I don’t remember any of it.

Then… the two last years of primary school in London which at the time included some Jesus stories, dinosaurs etc like you described. Then the first two years of secondary in London again… can’t remember much religion…

And then back to Cyprus again for secondary years 3 through 7 at a private English school where religious education was not obligatory and I wasn’t taking it.

I honestly can’t remember any religious influence from school and neither did I think much of dinosaurs when I was taught about them. Never really bought it...

So you admit you were taught religion...?

You weren't born with it, it is not a natural state, it isn't a random fact that you are not Amish or Buddha or Islamic...?

Most people follow a religion because they were born in it and due to the subsequent brainwashing by family and school. But this is not always the case. There are people who need religion for psychological reasons. I had an ex-girlfriend whose family wasn't religious and she wasn't taught religion in school (she is not Cypriot). She was well educated also. But she had some psychological problems... she was worried that she was getting older (in her mid 20s, and in a degree way higher than normal) and in general she was unstable. Then at some point she became VERY religious... i think this helped her deal with her issue. I also know another person (Cypriot) whose father died when he was a child and I think this created a psychological trauma to him. He tried several religions (e.g. Buddhism) and in the end he became one of the blind followers of Athanasios (the Bishop).

[Sotos]

...as well as nothing was created in it’s evolved status as we know today, which is where evolution comes in.

We don't know that for a fact and I see no reason why God would need to utilize evolution for the creation of species.

Why not just wave one's magic wand and place two chickens there? Why go through some long laborious process?

If you take evolution out of the creation equation, then all human species should all look the same for the males/females, but we are not all the same as we have all evolved differently depending from which part of the world we have stayed, adopting to those surroundings which we all evolved differently genetically, despite we all being created as humans by God and his magic wand!

The same process that leads to differences between the same species is what eventually leads to the creation of new species. It just takes a lot more time. Modern Humans have existed for about 200.000 years. Life on earth has existed for 3.8 billion years. This process is well understood and not disputed by any serious scientist.

So basically what you are saying is Sotos, that ALL living things on earth today has started as just one single cell amoeba 3.8 Billion years ago, and since that time, all species has evolved into different species, and over time and on and on and on until we have millions of species from that just one single cell amoeba. I can accept that as evolution, but there is still has to be a beginning with that single cell amoeba in the form of being created by something. Could that something be what we call, God, or was it just an accident that the amoeba became to be by the elements and minerals of that time 3.8 Billion years ago?

Kikapu, for the exact details you need to ask a biologist Obviously we don't yet know everything there is to know in biology, but using Gods to explain the unknown is a practice humans used for millennia and has been proven wrong time and again.

Just one more observation. Why is the planet earth is so different than all other planets in our solar system? Why does our earth has all the element needed for life as we know it and not the rest of the planets as far as we know? Surely if life only started as an single cell amoeba on earth, stands the reason to have life on other planets that is different from ours, but life that would be suitable for the elements and minerals found on those planets?

We know very little about other planets. We have done a bit of research on Mars, and looked on other planets of our solar system, but there are 100 billion stars just in our galaxy, and 1 billion trillion stars in the observable universe... so you can imagine how many planets are out there for which we know nothing about.

[Pyrpolizer]

Here’s a philosophical approach that I once read and found interesting:

The mere existence of anything is a time related issue.
Time however is undefinable without violating basic principles of logic as e.g. defining it by referring to chronological sequences.
Therefore proving that anything exists is impossible.

If we accept

a) That something timeless exists and we call that God, then he could have never created anything other than an illusion of his own, otherwise he would have violated the principles of his existence.
Therefore what we call God under this hypothesis can at best be the timeless absolute zero, and the Universe a non existing illusion.

b)That something exists infinitely in time and we call that God, then he couldn’t within his timely infinite existence create a timely restricted Universe because again he would have violated the principles of his existence. The only possibility of that happening is that the Universe is God himself and exists infinitely in time.
The big bang theory was just one of the infinite times of creating-destroying-recreating-modifying Universes and Cosmos.

All these of course within the limits of human logic. Which leads us to the conclusion that our mental capabilities lead us to a dead end, and we don’t really know.

NB. Have you noticed that within those thousands of presumable (either physical or mental) contacts with extraterrestrials nobody ever asked them anything about God?!

[Pyrpolizer]

Just one more observation. Why is the planet earth is so different than all other planets in our solar system? Why does our earth has all the element needed for life as we know it and not the rest of the planets as far as we know? Surely if life only started as an single cell amoeba on earth, stands the reason to have life on other planets that is different from ours, but life that would be suitable for the elements and minerals found on those planets?

Hi Kiks,

I won't pretend that I know the answer but under hypothesis "b" I assuming there are other forms of life that don't need either a planet or anything to exist (the closest I can think of is spiritual life forms) or other of unknown to us forms.. Probably those rocky seemingly useless planets are some sort of barriers or protectors of life on Earth, probably they ended up there by mere chance as concentration of scattered matter or energy.
Who knows, we will never learn....

[Get Real!]

It’s comforting to know that I’m approximately located on planet Earth…

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