Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

The ECHR decisions are very clear and Turkey refuses to obey them: Pay compensation to the refugees for the 31 years of illegal occupation AND (not "or") allow them to have their properties back.
The longer Turkey insists on the illegality, the more compensations will have to pay in the end when all refugees will return to their homes and legality restored.

Regarding the TC land, this land is under the same laws as any other land in RoC. They took land from my family as well to house the refugees and we were just given a very small compensation for it. This can happen with TCs as well. The illegal Turkish occupation is affecting all Cyprus and all Cypriots should share the cost, including the TCs. The last ones who can complain about this are the ones who support this illegality like our friend elko.

Piratis do you think the new court/committee call it what you will should give back the properties if they are occupied? or alternatively pay compensation right away or should they hold them in custody/bank account like yourselves until a solution is found?
If you you choose the first then surely we should also ask for the GC to come and live in the TRNC for 6 months before they make an application to the court. If you think that unfair why does the south do this and then say we cant give you your property until a solution is found even when that property has been used by the GC administraion?
In short would it be ok for us to apply the same rules that you have applied to us?

[bg_turk]

Would restoration of human right be enough for you though?

Human rights, democracy and legality. These would be more than enough for me, and these require the end of the illegal occupation.

Where does the ECHR say "illegal occupation" and when has it required the TRNC to dissolve itself?
The human rights problem was created by the TRNC, and it will be solved by the TRNC.

[Piratis]

Turkey should end her illegal occupation so everybody could return to their own properties.

I accept legality do you? If you don't, they you will pay the price of your illegalities. It is as simply as that.

If you you choose the first then surely we should also ask for the GC to come and live in the TRNC for 6 months before they make an application to the court.

You can ask him to go to live in wonderland if you want. The facts are simple: Either you pay compensation for your illegalities of 31 years and stop the illegalities now, or you will continue to be as guilty as always.

[bg_turk]

Turkey should end her illegal occupation so everybody could return to their own properties.

Turkey will not end the "illegal occupation", by which I suppose you meand the dissolution of the TRNC, but people will return to their homes.

[Piratis]

Where does the ECHR say "illegal occupation" and when has it required the TRNC to dissolve itself?

ECHR is about human rights, not international law. The illegality of "TRNC" is clearly declared in the UN resolutions. Do you want me to paste them for you again?

If something does not exist how can you dissolve it??

The human rights problem was created by the TRNC, and it will be solved by the TRNC.

You live in your own world. In the real world and according to the ECHR, Turkey is the one responsible. Pseudo states can not create or solve anything.

[bg_turk]

Where does the ECHR say "illegal occupation" and when has it required the TRNC to dissolve itself?

ECHR is about human rights, not international law.

Precisely! The ECHR is all about human rights, and the human right situation will be solved, and the TRNC is in fact obliged to solve it.

The international law part is all about politics, clearly now and in the past the TRNC was not favored by the permament members of the security council, and they have condemned it through their resolutions. Politics is all about power, and the powerful determine what the political outcomes will be. The TRNC is not obliged to make any political concessions to you and forego the administration of the land over which it has soveregnity. If you want more concessions on that, you have to make the TRNC make such concessions.

The illegality of "TRNC" is clearly declared in the UN resolutions. Do you want me to paste them for you again?

Just past the exact phrase where the TRNC has been explicitly declared ILLEGAL, using that exact word. According to the UN the TRNC is an unrecognized state, regarded as occupied territory, only in your fantasies it is illegal.
If it is illegal what law can a country be illegal according to, and what organization is responsible for policing that law? Are Kosovo, East Timor, Transdnestir (eastern moldova), Taiwan, Nagorno-Karabagh, etc. illegal as well?

The human rights problem was created by the TRNC, and it will be solved by the TRNC.

You live in your own world. In the real world and according to the ECHR, Turkey is the one responsible. Pseudo states can not create or solve anything.

I live in the de facto world, and the TRNC will be able to de facto return the properties of Greek Cypriot refugees, all the real RoC can just tell them that de jure it is theirs.

[Viewpoint]

Turkey should end her illegal occupation so everybody could return to their own properties.

I accept legality do you? If you don't, they you will pay the price of your illegalities. It is as simply as that.

If you you choose the first then surely we should also ask for the GC to come and live in the TRNC for 6 months before they make an application to the court.

You can ask him to go to live in wonderland if you want. The facts are simple: Either you pay compensation for your illegalities of 31 years and stop the illegalities now, or you will continue to be as guilty as always.

As long as there is no comprehensive solution,

A) Turkey is not going anywhere,

B) The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is not going anywhere.

the sooner you realize this fact the better.


Your avoiding answering my question do you feel that if we apply the same principles as your administration in the north regarding property its acceptable.

1. GCs live in the north for 6 months

2. Return is suspended (kept by a guardian) until a solution is found

3. Any compensation is kept in trust until a solution is found

If its good enough for us surely it must be good enough for you as well, what do you think?? GC style human rights and democracy....and dont forget legality in the "RoC"..

[Piratis]

All human rights violations and problems are due to the illegal Turkish occupation. If the Turkish occupation did not exist then the TCs wouldn't have any problem either.

So why do you insist on the illegalities?

[Piratis]

I live in the de facto world

In the de facto world the "TRNC" is an illegal pseudo puppet state of Turkey. It can do nothing of what you said in your post.

Just past the exact phrase where the TRNC has been explicitly declared ILLEGAL, using that exact word. According to the UN the TRNC is an unrecognized state, regarded as occupied territory, only in your fantasies it is illegal.

Here:

The Security Council,

Having heard the statement of the Foreign Minister of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus,

Concerned at the declaration by the Turkish Cypriot authorities issued on 15 November 1983 which purports to create in independent state in northern Cyprus,

Considering that this declaration is incompatible with the 1960 Treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee,

Considering therefore that the attempt to create a "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" is invalid, and will contribute to a worsening of the situation in Cyprus,

Reaffirming its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975),

Aware of the need of a solution to the Cyprus problem, based on the mission of good offices undertaken by the Secretary-General,

Affirming its continued support for the United Nations Peace- keeping Force in Cyprus,

Taking note of the Secretary-Generals statement of 17 November 1983,

1. Deplores the declaration of the Turkish Cypriot authorities of the purported secession of part of the Republic of Cyprus;

2. Considers the declaration refereed to above as legally invalid and calls for its withdrawal;

3. Calls for the urgent and effective implementation of its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975);

4. Requests the Secretary-General to peruse his mission of good offices in order to achieve the earliest possible progress toward a just and lasting settlement in Cyprus;

5. Calls upon the parties to co-operate with the Secretary- General in his mission of good offices;

6. Calls upon all states to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus;

7. Calls upon all states not to recognize any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus;

8. Calls upon all states and the two communities in Cyprus to refrain from any action which might exacerbate the situation;

9. Requests the Secretary-General to keep the Security Council fully informed.

Anything else?

[Viewpoint]

All human rights violations and problems are due to the illegal Turkish occupation. If the Turkish occupation did not exist then the TCs wouldn't have any problem either.

So why do you insist on the illegalities?

Look Piratis I asking you a question yet you blatenly ignore the real core, if we are trying to give you back your human rights regarding your proprties in the same fashion as you are giving it to us will everything be ok? Sure what you are applying to us is within you GC brand of human rights, so would you take your own medicine?

You cant answer otherwise you would be puting the "RoC" in the shit as they are the ones who violated TCs human rights back then and who are still violating TC human rights even in 2006, thats why you have to revert to blaming Turkish occupation.