Cyprus-Forum.com

[Simon]

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject:

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i hope you understand that there is a difference between
Quote:
Second part, it is peaceful at the moment because there is partition


Quote:
Yes the border is open, but the hostilities remain because the disputes remain

they either remain, or it is peaceful at the moment. one of the two. not both at the same time

OK, I apologise, I should have been clearer. What I meant was there is still resentment, but outright hostilities have obviously all but ended because we are separated. This is obvious. What I'm saying is that, hostility will resume, if proportionality does not happen. I would prefer it to happen with us being united. But if TCs continue to reject this, then I would also accept proportionality divided, rather than giving TCs a veto on everything for an 18% community.

So basically I am saying proportionality should be the aim of every GC, whether that means us divided or united. I suggested the divided solution because it seems that sadly, TCs would accept this more. You could see that just from the response I was getting. So if that's what they want (and I include Zan, Eric, Bg Turk etc here, perhaps with Bir being the exception) then let them have it. Why should we continue to beg them to live with us. At least it would mean we would get some of our land back and many GCs could return to their homes.

[Tony-4497]

Simon

I think you hit the nail on the head:

So basically I am saying proportionality should be the aim of every GC, whether that means us divided or united.

I also think that GC politicians are committing national treason through negligence by not demanding that any proposed plan involves at least 80% of the land being under GC rule, on the basis of the population and land ownership percentages.

I believe that even an idiot or a child should be able to realise that whatever power sharing plan we agree to will have a high chance of failure and that the Czechoslovakia scenario (i.e. ultimate divorce) will be probable and that all that will matter in such a case will be the land sharing % agreed.

The morons who run the RoC do not seem to realise this and agree to negotiate plans that give 30% to the TCs. Unfortunately, by the time historians will record their criminally wrong judgment of the situation it will be too late to shoot them for treason.

Also see:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3721

[sadik]

Simon,

Your proposal sounds logical. At the first sight it looks like a win-win case for both sides.

However, as soon as your proposal is put on the table by the GC leadership, I believe, the Cyprus problem will automatically be solved in the eyes of the whole world. The disagreement between the sides will automatically be reduced to a disagreement on numbers, be it 18,20 or 25 percent. Current partition with 37% going to the TCs will eventually be legalized. The percentage, in this case, may be different only if the Turkish side unilaterally implements it, like what Sharon is planning to do in Israel.

For this reason, this proposal cannot be put forward by the GC side.

The real choice that we have is not between the 20/80 partition and back to the 1960 RoC. This cannot be forced onto the Turkish side. Even threatening Turkey with a veto in the EU cannot force this type of a solution, because Cyprus cannot use the veto without the consent of the big EU countries.

The real choice that we currently have is between a BBF and the current partition. Which one do you prefer?

[cypezokyli]

I also think that GC politicians are committing national treason through negligence by not demanding that any proposed plan involves at least 80% of the land being under GC rule, on the basis of the population and land ownership percentages.

The morons who run the RoC do not seem to realise this and agree to negotiate plans that give 30% to the TCs. Unfortunately, by the time historians will record their criminally wrong judgment of the situation it will be too late to shoot them for treason.

can an idiot kindly remind you a small minor detail ?
the last time i checked, i believe we have lost the war.
therefore, there is an upper limit on how much we can demand.
or, there is not, and we are about to re-write history.

once again back to treason.
tony, u still have time to run for elections in may.
as u can see from the forum, partitionst proposals are popular.
we can even use the forum as a platform for your non-treason causes.

just out of curiosity... eoka used to kill the traitors.
what are you planning to do with us?

[Tony-4497]

the last time i checked, i believe we have lost the war.
therefore, there is an upper limit on how much we can demand.

It is this rationale that has brought us to the Annan plan - and you got the answer of the GC people on that last year.

I do not suggest that we demand anything unfair or unreasonable!!
Either true re-unification or partition on the basis of the population and land ownership split!! what on earth is the upper limit that you think I am exceeding in making this common sense demand??!!

If any solution involves giving 30% of Cyprus to the 18% TC minority, it will be rejected, as it is simply NOT WORTH IT for GCs! Much better to keep things as they are and continue to fight for ALL of the land at EU and other courts AND block Turkey's EU accession until she agrees to a fair and reasonable solution. We would have to be really thick to legalise the theft of 30% of our land in order to take back just 7% of what is anyway ours.

once again back to treason.
tony, u still have time to run for elections in may.
as u can see from the forum, partitionst proposals are popular.
we can even use the forum as a platform for your non-treason causes.
just out of curiosity... eoka used to kill the traitors.
what are you planning to do with us?

Please stop being silly and don't put words in my mouth. I am of course exaggerating in talking about treason through negligence but I do believe that such criminal negligence should be punished by the courts. If by leaders' ommissions we end up losing 10% of Cyprus, there should be punishment. Unfortunately, however, in this country no one ever gets punished.

I am unfortunately unable to have a go at these elections due to personal circumstances, but I promise you that if the problem is not resolved by the next ones I will set up my political party which will be called "The 80% Party", with the key message that ANY solution plan should put 80% of the land under GC rule.

[cypezokyli]

I do not suggest that we demand anything unfair or unreasonable!!

i will not discuss fairness with you, since it is an abstract concept.
i would argue on impossibility terms...but thats also abstract

If any solution involves giving 30% of Cyprus to the 18% TC minority, it will be rejected, as it is simply NOT WORTH IT for GCs! Much better to keep things as they are and continue to fight for ALL of the land at EU and other courts AND block Turkey's EU accession until she agrees to a fair and reasonable solution. We would have to be really thick to legalise the theft of 30% of our land in order to take back just 7% of what is anyway ours.

i thought it was 27% , but it doesnt really matter. its still not enough as i may assume.
looking back at what we have rejected up to now, i wouldnt be surprised if going for the 80% , we achieve to stay with the 63% we have now.
the future will show. i honestly hope that i am wrong.

yet another one who believes that we can block turkeys accession.

Please stop being silly and don't put words in my mouth. I am of course exaggerating in talking about treason through negligence but I do believe that such criminal negligence should be punished by the courts. If by leaders' ommissions we end up losing 10% of Cyprus, there should be punishment. Unfortunately, however, in this country no one ever gets punished.

hey tony chill out. i didnt say u said that. i just took a historical paradigm, as we all do, and let my thoughts go wild
its like saying we tried it 40 years ago and it failed, therefore it will fail again.
or
we killed traitors forty years ago, therefore..you know what i mean
just joking..
i have to say though, that i am releaved that you were exxagurating... i mean u never know

but I promise you that if the problem is not resolved by the next ones I will set up my political party which will be called "The 80% Party", with the key message that ANY solution plan should put 80% of the land under GC rule.

that would be 2010, but dont hurry up, we still have a lot of time.

i wish "the 80% party" all the best.

[Piratis]

So basically I am saying proportionality should be the aim of every GC, whether that means us divided or united.

I also agree with this. However there is the problem that sadik said. Once we propose such thing, then instead of having Turkey occupying 37% of Cyprus, we will have disputed land between "TRNC" and RoC. Obviously we can not do this.

Your proposal sounds logical. At the first sight it looks like a win-win case for both sides.
...
The real choice that we currently have is between a BBF and the current partition. Which one do you prefer?

Well sadik, apparently a win-win situation is impossible and the only thing that Turks would accept now is if they win. IF the BBF that you talk about is one that respect the democratic and human rights of all Cypriots and the Federation is one like the USA (not 50%-50% etc) then I would accept. Otherwise we will maintain the status quo, until the time we will have the power to win the war, and then you me and cypezokyli will agree that GCs will be able to ask for a lot more without giving a fuck about your human rights (right cypezokyli? You will remind sadik that they lost the war, right?). Too bad the world works like this ah? Except of course you accept win - win. If not, then forget it that we will acept to be the losers, and believe me, you have a lot to loose from this conflict as well.

[cypezokyli]

Otherwise we will maintain the status quo, until the time we will have the power to win the war, and then you me and cypezokyli will agree that GCs will be able to ask for a lot more without giving a fuck about your human rights (right cypezokyli? You will remind sadik that they lost the war, right?). Too bad the world works like this ah? Except of course you accept win - win. If not, then forget it that we will acept to be the losers, and believe me, you have a lot to loose from this conflict as well.

did sth happenned in the news the last days that i missed?
or is it some national holiday that i forget?
did we acquire some new weapon?
do we have any new ally?
or is it the bird flu attack?
its the third time in less than a day that three different people mention war.
all were gcs!!!
people. start calming down.

PLEASEEEEEE.
i am absolutely not in the mood to go through these war stuff again.
so lets change the subject.

[bg_turk]

Piratis,
When you get the balance of power, you may not give a fuck about the human rights of TCs, but the pseudoppupet will give a fuck about your human rights now, and soon you will enjoy all your rights as a proud citizen of pseudopupetlandia.

[Piratis]

its the third time in less than a day that three different people mention war.
all were gcs!!!

Maybe it has something to do that some others keep reminding us that we lost the war and therefore we have to accept human rights violations against us? Yes, we have every right to fight for our land and human rights.

The balance of power keeps changing cypezokyli. Think of yourself in the 16th century Greece. What would you say to the crazy Greeks dreaming of liberation? (a guess: "come on. Just become Muslims, forget Greek language and get some peanuts from your masters in return otherwise you will get nothing") If all people were like you we would all still be slaves. What we ask for is just, and yes we will fight for it if we have to.