Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Not just that, but there were very nearly other collateral damage.

Dawn Sturgess died from Novichok poisoning of course, having picked up the discarded fake perfume container that was used to transport and contain it. Apparently, squirting it on her wrists and rubbing them together.

2 others were seriously ill for quite a while due to exposure, too. Also, I doubt whether Yulia Skripal was an intended target. So, in all, 5 casualties were caught up in the affair.

Or, perhaps Sturgess was murdered by MI5 to add credibility to the fairy tale? Fooling 28 countries into expelling 150 Russian "diplomats" ( ) as a result. The apparent motive for this clever global conspiracy? Diverting attention from Brexit. A success!

Then again, maybe it was all simple food poisoning? After all, as the Russian Ambassador to the UK said in a press conference, there's no such thing as Novichok (I mean, what do the OPCW and Porton Down know anyway). It's apparently a CIA myth. Of course, he's Russian so - it has to be true.

Welcome to the shadowy La La world of the Kremlin apologist, where reality is suspended and: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y .

.

Yes sorry I forgot about that.

Yeh, there is no way 28 countries would just jump on the outrage bandwagon if there was no validity to Britain's claims. Each country was fully aware that Pootin was behind this attack.

[Paphitis]

Also the CISCO hacks, and the Malaysian Transport Board and Australian and Dutch Transport Safety Board investigation into MH17 hacks were attributed to Russia's GRU.

All this probably because of the information Skrypal provided on the GRU's operations and tactics.

And there was a Hack into the US Democratic Party during the last US elections which the Americans have not finished investigating.

[Londonrake]

If I may digress for a post, to underline a previous point.

From page 62 of this thread:

In response to RH:

I'm not interested in your repeated attempts to descend into obfuscating detail - your US did 9/11, got dragged down to the minutia of Newton's Laws. You collapsed the discussions into arguments about semantic trivia, when the like of your statements, that Syria had no chemical weapons or MH117 was shot down by a Ukranian fighter, after being directed into an isolated region of airspace, were shown for the rubbish they were....................... It's your normal MO

From page 65:

Well, welll .... here is a very moderate opinion from Sir Robert Owen on the Litvinenko case ...... plenty of probabilities there then, but no damning evidence that the public are allowed to see .... as it could affect National Security ...... and if you found out anyway they would ‘probably’ take you out into the country, ‘probably’ murder you and then ‘probably’ prop you against a tree, , [b]‘probably’ cut your wrists to make it look like suicide because you ‘probably’ knew too much. RIP: David Kelly.

These people are ‘probably’ your masters .......

Litvinenko 'probably murdered on personal orders of Putin'

Public inquiry concludes there is ‘strong probability’ two Russian agents were ordered by FSB to poison former spy.

The former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko was probably murdered on the personal orders of Vladimir Putin, the UK public inquiry into his death has found.

Litvinenko, who died from radioactive poisoning in a London hospital in November 2006, was killed by two Russian agents, Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitry Kovtun, the inquiry report said. There was a “strong probability” they were acting on behalf of the Russian FSB secret service, the report added.

Sir Robert Owen, the inquiry chair, said that taken as a whole the open evidence that had been heard in court amounted to a “strong circumstantial case” that the Russian state was behind the assassination.

But when he took into account all the evidence available to him, including a “considerable quantity” of secret intelligence that was not aired in open court, he found “that the FSB operation to kill Mr Litvinenko was probably approved by [Nikolai] Patrushev [head of the security service in 2006] and also by President Putin”

So not quite so cut-n-dried as you seem to suggest ......so, let’s stick to the Skripal incident shall we ..... because ‘probably’ it was a complete jumping of the gun by the British, who ‘probably’ thought it was a good opportunity to demonise Russia. As the UK government approved evidence shows ...... the two guys were not in the area at the time the act was ‘probably’ committed. They were ‘probably’ up to no good but that is just speculation.

Good word .... PROBABILITY ...... init? Put in the vocabulary of some people it is readily converted to ..... DEFINITELY ..... actually! YOU don't need evidence when you've got 'probability'?

Sir Robert Owen is a judge. It's a convention - outside of places like Russia anyway - that pre-trial the beaks don't talk in terms of "definitely". The circumstances, until a verdict's brought in, are always stated in the realm of "probable".

All the evidence of what happened to Litivenko is out there and easily found. Including his death-bed statement. If you truly believe that his death was nothing to do with the Russian State, that he didn't die at the hands of the 2 FSB men he met in that London hotel room, then I submit that - as Pyrpo earlier suggested in another vein - there's little point. As there never, ever is with Mr Hood.

[Robin Hood]

STUD:

One question I would like to see answered is can Putin produce Mishkin and Chepiga at the same time and place as Petrov and Boshirov...and have more than two individuals covering those four names?

An interesting comment. I wonder?

Going by the almost endless stream of ’conspiracy theories’ on this thread ..... anything is possible. Maybe Putin can march out on parade a whole battalion of Mishkin/Chepiga, Petrov/Boshirov clones ..... after all, according to the insistence on their guilt by certain members ............. the Russians obviously have already conquered time travel!

But one thing is for sure ..... whoever these two guys are ...... they were not the ones that attempted to poison the Skripals! The evidence provide by the UK government confirms that beyond doubt! They were nowhere near the Skripal’s house at the relevant times either on the night of the 3rd or early morning of the 4th they were 130 miles away most of that time or on a train....... what they were actually doing is just anyone’s best guess.

The question everybody still seeks to avoid answering is what were Mischkin/Petrov and Boshirov/Chepiga doing walking twice as far in the wrong direction (i.e. towards the Skripal house) from the railway station than it is to the sights they ostensibly came to see, namely the Cathedral and it’s ancient clock.

That is anyone’s guess but they are not covered on CCTV being anywhere closer to the Skripals house than 400m. They also managed to cover the distance of 1.2 miles from the station to the Esso station 400m from the house, in 10 minutes according to HMG, but don’t explain how. Bloody fit these GRU types and they are not even seen out of breath!

LR:

Then again, maybe it was all simple food poisoning?

Have you ever had shell fish poisoning? Just hope you don’t ever get it. My wife many years ago was poisoned by eating lobster in Sri Lanka. Within half an hour she was feeling very unwell, after another 15 minutes the Hotel called a doctor, who called an Ambulance and she was in intensive care in the local hospital for several days and then another week in the hotel with the doctor visiting 2-3 times a day.

So ..... the time line of a food poisoning theory fits the Skripals movements and situation, as does the meal! The hospital treated them for severe food poisoning or a drug overdose which happens to be just what you do with victims of a nerve agent ...... unless it is Russian Military Grade Novichok A-234 ..... then you call the undertaker. It is only a very unusual Military Grade Novichok, that you can survive and completely recover. The Russian women are so tough they use it as perfume!

All this though isn't "evidence" of anything other than anti-Russian phobia apparently and we're laughably listening to po-faced talk of Skripal's illness being due to food poisoning, or part of an incredibly complex - global - conspiracy to divert attention from Theresa May's political problems.

That is more credible than the rest of the garbage conspiracy theories you spout.

[Robin Hood]

LR:

Sir Robert Owen is a judge. It's a convention - outside of places like Russia anyway - that pre-trial the beaks don't talk in terms of "definitely". The circumstances, until a verdict's brought in, are always stated in the realm of "probable".

The convention is that as a Judge you do not discuss a case, in public, whilst the case/enquiry is in progress ...... actually! The wording is taken from the final report of ‘The Litvinenko Enquiry’there was no trial.

All the evidence of what happened to Litivenko is out there and easily found. Including his death-bed statement. If you truly believe that his death was nothing to do with the Russian State, that he didn't die at the hands of the 2 FSB men he met in that London hotel room, then I submit that - as Pyrpo earlier suggested in another vein - there's little point. As there never, ever is with Mr Hood.

Then why did the final report not find them, the Russian Government, the FSB ‘guilty in absentia’. Maybe because it never actually went for trial? So, as usual your comments are more of a wish-list than irrevocable or even just relevant facts.

But ‘Mr Hood’ always puts up the reasons for believing what he posts .... which is more than can be said for your contributions, which are inevitably a highly entertaining slagging-off of Mr Hood and declaring him as nothing but a Loony Left wing stooge, Putin loving, Kremlin/Russian Troll.

[Londonrake]

......................a Loony Left wing stooge, Putin loving, Kremlin/Russian Troll.

On this we can at least agree. Although, I think the “Loony’s” being a bit harsh on yourself. That implies a person with mental problems. However, you’re the expert on the subject, so I’ll take your word for it.

As far as the rest goes. I think it safe to say that somebody who, over a period of quite a few years, has faithfully echoed absolutely every single Kremlin originated edict on this Forum, related to associated OPs, without the slightest doubt, disagreement or hesitation, can be truthfully referred to as such. Thinking “outside the box” isn’t it?

[Robin Hood]

LR:

As far as the rest goes. I think it safe to say that somebody who, over a period of quite a few years, has faithfully echoed absolutely every single Kremlin originated edict on this Forum, related to associated OPs, without the slightest doubt, disagreement or hesitation, can be truthfully referred to as such. Thinking “outside the box” isn’t it?

But of course over the same period of time you have taken every opportunity to put down without any evidence, anything associated with Russia. Any explanation is met with derision and TLDR and so full are you of your own hubris and conceited oppinions of world events that, likewise, you have never once questioned any statement or action of the US/UK/NATO .... or their Allies like Israel and all the other hangers on, despite the chaos, death and the destruction they have been responsible for decades !

I judge by acquired knowledge and what I see and Russias actions are invariably within the context of International Law and The UN Charter! But you do not accept that, because the Western leaders say differently and with you and the rest of their unquestioning followers, what they say is irrefutable no matter how much evidence is presented to show otherwis. Your favorite fall backs of Crimea and Georgia being classic examples of the fog created by Western versons of ‘truth’.

Yes, I favour what I see the Russians doing, in most cases defensive or by invitation not by choice or to directly serve their own National interests. I do not agree with the actions of any Western powers when those actions are offencive not defence, when their victims are of no threat to any other Nation and are embarked upon soley for to benefit of the National (commercial) interests of the United States, as they are in almost every theatre of conflict ..... with most of them started by the US and its willing Allies and proxies ..... not by the Russians.


Whilst you consider you served Queen and Country and comendably no doubt ...... you have been deluded by your masters because you have serving NOTHING but US/Israeli Global interests since the end of WWII and with very few exceptions. Not 'God Save the Queen' old chap, that is an insult to HM you should have been singing God Bless America or shouting ‘America First’ ....... in fact the last one should be rephrased as ‘ ONLY America’.

So, loyal to The Crown you may have been ......... your leaders just lost sight of which Crown they were giving your loyalty to.

[Pyrpolizer]

It's a long and painful road for anyone to realize in what kind of rotten societies we live in.
Governments make sure that people in the Police or the Armed forces never learn about it, or else they'd would all collapse.
They pay those people well, offer them all possible benefits to make sure that don't have much reason to have doubts of how lovely their system is.
I am not talking for the West alone. Russia is no different.
All those traitors coming out of Russia, must know something that we outsiders don't.

[Paphitis]

It's a long and painful road for anyone to realize in what kind of rotten societies we live in.
Governments make sure that people in the Police or the Armed forces never learn about it, or else they'd would all collapse.
They pay those people well, offer them all possible benefits to make sure that don't have much reason to have doubts of how lovely their system is.
I am not talking for the West alone. Russia is no different.
All those traitors coming out of Russia, must know something that we outsiders don't.

Yes they do know something and if you dig deep, Pootin isn't well liked by Russians.

Hence, you have a lot of Russians wanting to get the hell out, or ask for asylum.

We have many Russians in Australia now working for Defence. We probably have Russian spies as well, but that would be very secret so no one knows anything about it.

[Robin Hood]

Pyrpoliser:

It's a long and painful road for anyone to realize in what kind of rotten societies we live in.
Governments make sure that people in the Police or the Armed forces never learn about it, or else they'd would all collapse.
They pay those people well, offer them all possible benefits to make sure that don't have much reason to have doubts of how lovely their system is.

But those who are part of that ‘club’ do not consider the fact they are spoilt. They regard it as an ‘entitlement’, a word you will hear frequently if you ever ‘mix’ on the British bases. But you are correct, that ensures they toe-the-line and do not question any orders or commands. Can you imagine the repercussions of an RAF pilot questioning the legality of him bombing targets in Syria? It would certainly limit promotion prospects and probably bring his career to an abrupt end!

I am not talking for the West alone. Russia is no different.

I have been on both British and US bases but never on a Russian base, as outside Russia there are only two and I would suggest neither would be typical. Many British and US bases are married status with facilities to reflect that and very little is spared in the way of benefits and comforts for wives/children. This is something the beneficiaries frequently do not realise and do not appreciate is virtually unheard of outside the military, that is, until they leave and enter the real world.

LR has a convenient memory! He once, some years ago, admitted that without military personnel being brainwashed to perform as one without regard for their natural feelings about right-and-wrong ...... the military of ANY country could not function. But he obviously does not accept that this has any influence on his ‘thinking’ when he leaves that environment. He sees any questioning of any aspect of the military or their privileges, as treasonous and a criticism of the whole military establishment. Therefore I am a Kremlin stooge in his eyes!

All those traitors coming out of Russia, must know something that we outsiders don't.

There have been spies and collaborators on all sides throughout history. There will always be those that will see an opportunity to swap sides, I suggest more for financial reasons than ideological ones. I think the traffic is two way.

But I think the worries about people becoming too informed is being played out even now. The privileged are becoming increasingly fearful of the people having access to information and becoming a threat by questioning their authority. Hence the almost indecent scramble to bring down the freedom of information and free speech on the Internet. Only yesterday Facebook and Twitter deleted 800 accounts of independent sites that questioned the official line or were considered anti-establishment! As the list was the same for both, there is obviously collusion but who is controlling it? ‘They’ want the control over which information the sheep have access to, back where they feel it rightly belongs.