Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

I think what he credited as "sensible" were my thoughts that the way the British Government handled the case actually raises suspicion that they themselves knew the 2 Russians were not guilty of the Skripal poisoning .
But even on that he (RH) didn't agree completely.

In any case we will never learn, so what's the point?

When the Brits decided to act the way they did, it was in consultation with other countries. They would have got into some trouble if they unilaterally decided this on their own.

Immediately after, the Dutch Government released evidence and even CCTV footage of Russian Spies filming and setting up listening posts in front of The International Atomic Agency and their vehicles were even stopped and search and inside they found a lot of espionage equipment, documents and even taxi vouchers from Moscow's GRU headquarters.

They too were let go and just evicted from the country. To arrest them really isn't a huge deal. It could also have ramifications for our guys in Russia as no doubt the Russians will respond in a tit for tat way.

You are basically saying that every day espionage activities were actually evaluated and found to carry the same weight as the Skripal poisoning. However the Skripal poisoning was presumably an attack of Russia against the UK on British soil which by itself should carry 100 times more weight - that's the way they presented it anyway.

So either the Skripal poisoning was not done by Russia as a state, or everybody including the UK doesn't know how to weigh the seriousness of the Skripal poisoning Vs everyday spying.
Which leads us to the conclusion they were selling us fairy tales all along.

[Londonrake]

....................... He believes and has for decades, what his masters tell him to believe, therefore anyone who reaches a different conclusion has to be some sort of demented idiot.

Ohh, come on. That's a bit unfair. I've never called you demented.

You're just drinking from your grudge-based well of anti-Forces feelings (you really should learn to get over such things and move on). Look up "stereotyping" and think about it.

I mean, who exactly are "his masters"?

Cameron was a spiv. A Ted Heath with better PR.

May's totally out of her depth and floundering around like a ship in stormy seas. It's beyond embarrassing.

Johnson's a buffoon.

Corbyn's an idiot and there's probably nobody more incredulously surprised at finding himself in that position.

Farage is a self-serving narcissist, unlikely to ever get paid by Westminster.

Trump's a total Feckwit. We'll get the measure of that next month I imagine.

I quite like JRM.

Did I miss any master out?

Your comment's funny, coming from somebody who has NEVER disagreed - ONCE - in years - with absolutely ANYTHING that's come out of Moscow. Are you really blind to that? Mmmm, what's the word again?

In any case we will never learn, so what's the point?

That surely depends upon what you mean by "learn"?

Occam's razor

Skripal - a "traitor to the Motherland" and "Scumbag" (Vladimir Putin) was going around briefing Western intelligence agencies on GRU methods. That's a slap in Putin's face after being released from a 13 year jail sentence and swapped. You're supposed to retire. So, two GRU men were dispatched to assassinate him - just as two FSB were with Litivenko (nobody ever picks up on that one). The method of killing him was to be a clear "message" just as it was with Litivenko. They did a recce and went back the next day for the hit. Just as they did with Litivenko. They screwed it up, just as they did with Litivenko.

There's as much "evidence" on all this as you can eat. From all sorts of sources. Mr RH though "believes what his master(s) tell him to" And that's exactly what happens! (Do you get the hypocrite thing?)

Or:

Two completely innocent Russians flew 1000 miles in mid winter to admire Salisbury cathedral. They only spent two days in the UK and 3 hours 45 minutes in Salisbury. Where they didn't go to the cathedral but instead walked a considerable distance in another direction, bringing them on camera in the Skripal neighbourhood, the very day they were poisoned. A coincidence apparently. They don't deny it but say they'd no idea he lived there.

I mean - apart from the fanatic Kremlin apologists - does anybody really buy option B? There's so many holes it resembles a colander.

End of thread!

Oh Yeah? Of course. Bludgeon! Bludgeon! Bludgeon!

[Robin Hood]

....................... He believes and has for decades, what his masters tell him to believe, therefore anyone who reaches a different conclusion has to be some sort of demented idiot.

Ohh, come on. That's a bit unfair. I've never called you demented.

You're just drinking from your grudge-based well of anti-Forces feelings (you really should learn to get over such things and move on). Look up "stereotyping" and think about it.

I mean, who exactly are "his masters"?

Cameron was a spiv. A Ted Heath with better PR.

May's totally out of her depth and floundering around like a ship in stormy seas. It's beyond embarrassing.

Johnson's a buffoon.

Corbyn's an idiot and there's probably nobody more incredulously surprised at finding himself in that position.

Farage is a self-serving narcissist, unlikely to ever get paid by Westminster.

Trump's a total Feckwit. We'll get the measure of that next month I imagine.

I quite like JRM.

Did I miss any master out?

Your comment's funny, coming from somebody who has NEVER disagreed - ONCE - in years - with absolutely ANYTHING that's come out of Moscow. Are you really blind to that? Mmmm, what's the word again?

In any case we will never learn, so what's the point?

That surely depends upon what you mean by "learn"?

Occam's razor

Skripal - a "traitor to the Motherland" and "Scumbag" (Vladimir Putin) was going around briefing Western intelligence agencies on GRU methods. That's a slap in Putin's face after being released from a 13 year jail sentence and swapped. You're supposed to retire. So, two GRU men were dispatched to assassinate him - just as two FSB were with Litivenko (nobody ever picks up on that one). The method of killing him was to be a clear "message" just as it was with Litivenko. They did a recce and went back the next day for the hit. Just as they did with Litivenko. They screwed it up, just as they did with Litivenko.

And of course this was all ,proved beyond reasonable doubt?

There's as much "evidence" on all this as you can eat. From all sorts of sources. Mr RH though "believes what his master(s) tell him to" And that's exactly what happens! (Do you get the hypocrite thing?)

As my mate Vladimir said "It is lucky for them it wasn't Russian Novichok .... or they would be dead!"' My 'Masters' told me nothing about this incident, except to say they didn't do it, ...... it all came from the UK Government and I applied a bit of simple common sense!

Or:

Two completely innocent Russians flew 1000 miles in mid winter to admire Salisbury cathedral. They only spent two days in the UK and 3 hours 45 minutes in Salisbury. Where they didn't go to the cathedral but instead walked a considerable distance in another direction, bringing them on camera in the Skripal neighbourhood, the very day they were poisoned. A coincidence apparently. They don't deny it but say they'd no idea he lived there.

A bit of the usual LR economy with the facts ...... but of course they didn't actually arrive in Salisbury until 11:48 almost three hours after the Skripals were supposedly poisoned from touching their door handle and the 'assassins' were living it up at a party in their hotel 130 miles away all the previous evening and into the night!. So that's f****d up the official scenario!

I mean - apart from the fanatic Kremlin apologists - does anybody really buy option B? There's so many holes it resembles a colander.

Yes.... but you don't have to be a Kremlin apologist, just being a UK Parliamentary apologist will do ..... just believe what the British government tells you happened ..... see their evidence ..... the two 'assassins' could NOT possibly have done it ..... and that's official!

End of thread!

Oh Yeah? Of course. Bludgeon! Bludgeon! Bludgeon!

On second thoughts .......... maybe not!

Well, welll .... here is a very moderate opinion from Sir Robert Owen on the Litvinenko case ...... plenty of probabilities there then, but no damning evidence that the public are allowed to see .... as it could affect National Security ...... and if you found out anyway they would ‘probably’ take you out into the country, ‘probably’ murder you and then ‘probably’ prop you against a tree, , [b]‘probably’ cut your wrists to make it look like suicide because you ‘probably’ knew too much. RIP: David Kelly.

These people are ‘probably’ your masters .......

Litvinenko 'probably murdered on personal orders of Putin'

Public inquiry concludes there is ‘strong probability’ two Russian agents were ordered by FSB to poison former spy.

The former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko was probably murdered on the personal orders of Vladimir Putin, the UK public inquiry into his death has found.

Litvinenko, who died from radioactive poisoning in a London hospital in November 2006, was killed by two Russian agents, Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitry Kovtun, the inquiry report said. There was a “strong probability” they were acting on behalf of the Russian FSB secret service, the report added.

Sir Robert Owen, the inquiry chair, said that taken as a whole the open evidence that had been heard in court amounted to a “strong circumstantial case” that the Russian state was behind the assassination.

But when he took into account all the evidence available to him, including a “considerable quantity” of secret intelligence that was not aired in open court, he found “that the FSB operation to kill Mr Litvinenko was probably approved by [Nikolai] Patrushev [head of the security service in 2006] and also by President Putin”

So not quite so cut-n-dried as you seem to suggest ......so, let’s stick to the Skripal incident shall we ..... because ‘probably’ it was a complete jumping of the gun by the British, who ‘probably’ thought it was a good opportunity to demonise Russia. As the UK government approved evidence shows ...... the two guys were not in the area at the time the act was ‘probably’ committed. They were ‘probably’ up to no good but that is just speculation.

Good word .... PROBABILITY ...... init? Put in the vocabulary of some people it is readily converted to ..... DEFINITELY ..... actually! YOU don't need evidence when you've got 'probability'?

[Londonrake]

This - again - is where you try to drag it down into the murk. "Wood for trees" Tough luck.

Meantime, I look forward to your continuing as you have for years - repeating absolutely everything that comes out of the Kremlin in every thread that involves them. You know, that "thinking outside the box" thing.

[Paphitis]

I think what he credited as "sensible" were my thoughts that the way the British Government handled the case actually raises suspicion that they themselves knew the 2 Russians were not guilty of the Skripal poisoning .
But even on that he (RH) didn't agree completely.

In any case we will never learn, so what's the point?

When the Brits decided to act the way they did, it was in consultation with other countries. They would have got into some trouble if they unilaterally decided this on their own.

Immediately after, the Dutch Government released evidence and even CCTV footage of Russian Spies filming and setting up listening posts in front of The International Atomic Agency and their vehicles were even stopped and search and inside they found a lot of espionage equipment, documents and even taxi vouchers from Moscow's GRU headquarters.

They too were let go and just evicted from the country. To arrest them really isn't a huge deal. It could also have ramifications for our guys in Russia as no doubt the Russians will respond in a tit for tat way.

You are basically saying that every day espionage activities were actually evaluated and found to carry the same weight as the Skripal poisoning. However the Skripal poisoning was presumably an attack of Russia against the UK on British soil which by itself should carry 100 times more weight - that's the way they presented it anyway.

So either the Skripal poisoning was not done by Russia as a state, or everybody including the UK doesn't know how to weigh the seriousness of the Skripal poisoning Vs everyday spying.
Which leads us to the conclusion they were selling us fairy tales all along.

The Skripal affair was serious because it involved attempted assassination of a former Russian spy turncoat, and his daughter and it involved a military grade chemical weapon. Not just that, but there were very nearly other collateral damage.

As far as we know, Western Intelligence services have not done this in Russia, or perhaps they have and they are very good at their jobs. If they do such things, then you got to admire their professionalism.

We have always known that Russia has its operatives working in our countries, and of course there is little doubt that we have people working within Russia's borders. I do not however know of a single case where any of our Security Agencies were ever caught with their pants down or used military grade weapons and other banned chemical warfare substances in Russia. It would be quite a scandal if ever that were ever to happen.

In terms of seriousness, Russia's actions are no different from an airstrike. It was a military action against Britain. It was a State sponsored terrorist attack. When you cut to the chase, this is what this is.

[supporttheunderdog]

I saw one conspiracy theory along the lines of

You can follow foreign agents and use convenient opportunity to strike Skrippals once you have agents in the area.

Which is frankly a joke.

One question I would like to see answered is can Putin produce Mishkin and Chepiga at the same time and place as Petrov and Boshirov...and have more than two individuals covering those four names?

In any event several groups (apart from Bellingcat) have carried out investigations and have brought out evidence to link Mishkin to Petrov and Boshirov to Chepiga, and have also shown that Mishkin and Chepiga have known each other since at least 2017, while Petrov and Boshirov seem to have no life outside of the dodgy passports.

The question everybody still seeks to avoid answering is what were Mischkin/Petrov and Boshirov/Chepiga doing walking twice as far in the wrong direction (i.e. towards the Skripal house) from the railway station than it is to the sights they ostensibly came to see, namely the Cathedral and its'a ancient clock.

My wife really did think the RT interview was a complete farce...convinced it was carefully scripted and rehearsed both questions and answers.

[Londonrake]

Not just that, but there were very nearly other collateral damage.

Dawn Sturgess died from Novichok poisoning of course, having picked up the discarded fake perfume container that was used to transport and contain it. Apparently, squirting it on her wrists and rubbing them together.

2 others were seriously ill for quite a while due to exposure, too. Also, I doubt whether Yulia Skripal was an intended target. So, in all, 5 casualties were caught up in the affair.

Or, perhaps Sturgess was murdered by MI5 to add credibility to the fairy tale? Fooling 28 countries into expelling 150 Russian "diplomats" ( ) as a result. The apparent motive for this clever global conspiracy? Diverting attention from Brexit. A success!

Then again, maybe it was all simple food poisoning? After all, as the Russian Ambassador to the UK said in a press conference, there's no such thing as Novichok (I mean, what do the OPCW and Porton Down know anyway). It's apparently a CIA myth. Of course, he's Russian so - it has to be true.

Welcome to the shadowy La La world of the Kremlin apologist, where reality is suspended and: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y .

.

[Pyrpolizer]

In terms of seriousness, Russia's actions are no different from an airstrike. It was a military action against Britain. It was a State sponsored terrorist attack. When you cut to the chase, this is what this is.

You are actually repeating part of what I said Paphitis...

[supporttheunderdog]

Not just that, but there were very nearly other collateral damage.

Also, I doubt whether Yulia Skripal was an intended target.
.

Is it coincidence that the trip was booked to coincide with Yulai Skripal's visit to her father? I understand the Aeroflot booking lists for the two gents was made very late when it was likely that it was known Yulia would be visiting her father.

Skripal may have been of interest because of alleged discussions with the sports anti-doping bodies....who the Russians were trying to hack...

[Londonrake]

Not just that, but there were very nearly other collateral damage.

Also, I doubt whether Yulia Skripal was an intended target.
.

Is it coincidence that the trip was booked to coincide with Yulai Skripal's visit to her father? I understand the Aeroflot booking lists for the two gents was made very late when it was likely that it was known Yulia would be visiting her father.

Skripal may have been of interest because of alleged discussions with the sports anti-doping bodies....who the Russians were trying to hack...

Whether Yulia was a target is clearly debatable. I'm personally not sure why she should have been. Skripal though had clearly broken the mutually accepted convention that people involved in spy-swaps retire from the business. He'd been active in briefing numerous Western intelligence agencies on GRU methods.

The straw that may have broken the back and attracted the attempt upon his life was - as you point out - probably the failed op to hack the Swiss anti-doping investigation into Russia. Also, the post Salisbury, Keystone Cops, cyber attack on the OPCW in Amsterdam has been put down to Skripal's activities. His having highlighted the associated unit's methods.The information gleaned from a laptop and mobile phones seized in that arrest contained pretty damning evidence of past and planned similar attacks around the world.

All this though isn't "evidence" of anything other than anti-Russian phobia apparently and we're laughably listening to po-faced talk of Skripal's illness being due to food poisoning, or part of an incredibly complex - global - conspiracy to divert attention from Theresa May's political problems.

I've got news. Stop press! It didn't work!