Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

I can't believe you guys are wasting your time when the evidence is striking you on the face.
It is absolutely clear the 2 Russians are guilty of something.
However the question is, are they guilty of the Skripals' poisoning or are they guilty of something else?
Let's see:

If they were guilty of the Skripals' poisoning would the British Government be soooo stupid to issue an international arrest warrant, making sure all the media would learn about it, thus in turn guarantee they would never be arrested and brought to trial??
How would you handle it if YOU were the British Government?

The correct procedure would be to put them on surveillance. The guys were traveling a lot out of Russia. Issue an International arrest warrant when they would be OUT OF Russia. Catch them like rats! At the very minimum just arrest them the next time they get a visa for entering the UK, just to keep everything secret.

My guess is that those 2 guys were in the illegal drug business. And I don't mean the usual stuff, but the new substances that appear by the thousands and sold over the net. They visited Sailsbury because they probably had a contact there to get chemicals from Poltron.
The UK government probably had information about them.
Did all this fuss for 2 reasons a) To save face -finding scapegoats b)To get rid of those criminals visiting the UK for the purpose of buying/selling/producing illegal drugs.

To solve the mystery the British government should hire you to take advantage of the powerful technologies you invented… like your greeklish spell checker, your computer AI knowhow, and that shit map file converter!

[Pyrpolizer]

What a pathetic joker!

Neext! ®

[Paphitis]

I can't believe you guys are wasting your time when the evidence is striking you on the face.
It is absolutely clear the 2 Russians are guilty of something.
However the question is, are they guilty of the Skripals' poisoning or are they guilty of something else?
Let's see:

If they were guilty of the Skripals' poisoning would the British Government be soooo stupid to issue an international arrest warrant, making sure all the media would learn about it, thus in turn guarantee they would never be arrested and brought to trial??
How would you handle it if YOU were the British Government?

The correct procedure would be to put them on surveillance. The guys were traveling a lot out of Russia. Issue an International arrest warrant when they would be OUT OF Russia. Catch them like rats! At the very minimum just arrest them the next time they get a visa for entering the UK, just to keep everything secret.

My guess is that those 2 guys were in the illegal drug business. And I don't mean the usual stuff, but the new substances that appear by the thousands and sold over the net. They visited Sailsbury because they probably had a contact there to get chemicals from Poltron.
The UK government probably had information about them.
Did all this fuss for 2 reasons a) To save face -finding scapegoats b)To get rid of those criminals visiting the UK for the purpose of buying/selling/producing illegal drugs.

I think the UK and allies have handled this very well.

the 2 Russian Agents will not be traveling or even working for the GRU ever again. the entire Russian operation was a huge failure and international embarrassment to Russia. it has cost the Russian GRU a lot.

I think it is self evident that these 2 guys will never be caught unless our agencies manage to kidnap them somehow which isn't impossible. I would say it wouldn't be worth the risk to even try such a thing because who really cares? But, what the west have done is basically sent Pootin a very stern warning and it isn't just these 2 GRU that have paid the price. Something like 30 odd countries have evicted over 200 diplomats, and apparently most of these guys are GRU as well, according to Western Intelligence. In Australia, the Australian Government said that the diplomats evicted from Canberra were GRU and were under surveillance for years.

This has been a costly affair for Russia. And it will be a long time before anyone can trust them because this isn't the first time they have done something like this. They have been caught out many times.

These 2 guys will get punished enough. First, they have lost their careers and will be washing dishes for the rest of their lives. They will never be allowed to travel out of Russia for the rest of their days. These 2 guys are however not the main target. Pootin is the target, and Russia's reputation. The 2 GRU agents are just mere pawns.

it is also apparent to me that despite pootin's bravado and big posturing and the cyberwar and spy war he is waging against Europe, NATO, USA and other allies, his security apparatus isn't as sophisticated as he would like or want to believe when compared to ours. Pootin can only ponder on what once was with the Soviet empire and the KGB, but when it comes down to the crunch, he has been left wanting and very much behind the 8 ball. The mere fact that the UK new pretty much immediately who was responsible and had released evidence (an unprecedented move) was extremely impressive. Testament to the British Security agencies who have done a great job.

As always, he will deny everything as he always does, but he also knows that this is only for his domestic consumption because no one outside of Russia believes him or trusts him. Even if this was a set up, Pootin has come out second best here and has lost this one big time. And even if the west did pull such a thing off, Russia deserved to be hum by their own petard. I very much doubt it though because we don't need an excuse to start sending Russian "diplomats" on their way. We can just do it and just say nah na ne nah nah to Pootin and FU Pootin! No need any elaborate cover stories to give an inglorious criminal bastard some comeuppance!

basically, he wants to project his power, as a superpower, but he has a long way to go and isn't even in the game.

this was just a catalyst to clear out dozens or hundreds of other known spies working in their criminal embassies. It was also retaliation over many other things such as MH17, the chemical attacks in Syria and for just being a real clown.

We don't care that he has done the same to our embassies. It wouldn't worry us if he closed our embassies down, although that would hurt him more than us because it does not suit Pootin to not have any diplomatic dialogue with us. We can go without dialogue with him, but he can't with all of us. But having his embassies decimated in over 30 countries hurts him real bad, and it embarrasses him as well.

[Pyrpolizer]

I think the UK and allies have handled this very well.

the 2 Russian Agents will not be traveling or even working for the GRU ever again. the entire Russian operation was a huge failure and international embarrassment to Russia. it has cost the Russian GRU a lot.

I think it is self evident that these 2 guys will never be caught unless our agencies manage to kidnap them somehow which isn't impossible. I would say it wouldn't be worth the risk to even try such a thing because who really cares? But, what the west have done is basically sent Pootin a very stern warning and it isn't just these 2 GRU that have paid the price. Something like 30 odd countries have evicted over 200 diplomats, and apparently most of these guys are GRU as well, according to Western Intelligence. In Australia, the Australian Government said that the diplomats evicted from Canberra were GRU and were under surveillance for years.

This has been a costly affair for Russia. And it will be a long time before anyone can trust them because this isn't the first time they have done something like this. They have been caught out many times.

These 2 guys will get punished enough. First, they have lost their careers and will be washing dishes for the rest of their lives. They will never be allowed to travel out of Russia for the rest of their days. These 2 guys are however not the main target. Pootin is the target, and Russia's reputation. The 2 GRU agents are just mere pawns.

it is also apparent to me that despite pootin's bravado and big posturing and the cyberwar and spy war he is waging against Europe, NATO, USA and other allies, his security apparatus isn't as sophisticated as he would like or want to believe when compared to ours. Pootin can only ponder on what once was with the Soviet empire and the KGB, but when it comes down to the crunch, he has been left wanting and very much behind the 8 ball. The mere fact that the UK new pretty much immediately who was responsible and had released evidence (an unprecedented move) was extremely impressive. Testament to the British Security agencies who have done a great job.

As always, he will deny everything as he always does, but he also knows that this is only for his domestic consumption because no one outside of Russia believes him or trusts him. Even if this was a set up, Pootin has come out second best here and has lost this one big time. And even if the west did pull such a thing off, Russia deserved to be hum by their own petard. I very much doubt it though because we don't need an excuse to start sending Russian "diplomats" on their way. We can just do it and just say nah na ne nah nah to Pootin and FU Pootin! No need any elaborate cover stories to give an inglorious criminal bastard some comeuppance!

basically, he wants to project his power, as a superpower, but he has a long way to go and isn't even in the game.

this was just a catalyst to clear out dozens or hundreds of other known spies working in their criminal embassies. It was also retaliation over many other things such as MH17, the chemical attacks in Syria and for just being a real clown.

We don't care that he has done the same to our embassies. It wouldn't worry us if he closed our embassies down, although that would hurt him more than us because it does not suit Pootin to not have any diplomatic dialogue with us. We can go without dialogue with him, but he can't with all of us. But having his embassies decimated in over 30 countries hurts him real bad, and it embarrasses him as well.

You still assume they were GRU agents, right? Fine.
However the question here is not whether they were GRU Agents or not.
The question is whether they were the ones who poisoned the Skripals.

and if in fact this was the case why the UK government basically donated them a ticket to freedom?
Can't you see that " nah na ne nah nah to Pootin and FU Pootin!" is too naive for an explanation for such a serious case??

[Robin Hood]

RW:

I can't believe you guys are wasting your time when the evidence is striking you on the face.
It is absolutely clear the 2 Russians are guilty of something. However the question is, are they guilty of the Skripals' poisoning or are they guilty of something else?

Good .... at last someone capable of looking at events and forming their own conclusion rather than parroting the UK Governments version of events. I agree with you they were obviously up to something but the evidence supplied JUST by the UK Government puts them in the wrong place at the wrong time to have attempted to murder the Skripa'ls by putting Novichoc on their door handle or any other means, because as they left Salisbury on the train the Skripals were parking their car.

Let's see:

If they were guilty of the Skripals' poisoning would the British Government be soooo stupid to issue an international arrest warrant, making sure all the media would learn about it, thus in turn guarantee they would never be arrested and brought to trial??

Of course not ..... unless you wanted to avoid the embarrassment of having to provide irrefutable proof to an International Court ...... evidence which you know you do not have!

How would you handle it if YOU were the British Government?

I would have kept my mouth shut until I knew what I was talking about and had all the facts verified. But as is obvious on just this forum ......... once you have been programmed to hate Putin and anything Russian that will always cloud your judgement and logic and common sense goes out of the window!

The correct procedure would be to put them on surveillance. The guys were travelling a lot out of Russia. Issue an International arrest warrant when they would be OUT OF Russia. Catch them like rats! At the very minimum just arrest them the next time they get a visa for entering the UK, just to keep everything secret.

But what if your argument is flawed and they turn out to be Russian Mafia? The UK Government are going to lose all credibility and will have to apologise to Putin and the Russian people ......Russia could even sue the UK for compensation for the damage they have done to the Russians and their economy ........ and of course reverse all the sanctions! That would NEVER be allowed to happen!

My guess is that those 2 guys were in the illegal drug business. And I don't mean the usual stuff, but the new substances that appear by the thousands and sold over the net. They visited Salisbury because they probably had a contact there to get chemicals from Porton.

I don’t know about the Porton Down link but I think the rest of what you said is credible.

The UK government probably had information about them.

Going by the UK’s record on reacting to information received ...... I doubt it, otherwise they would have used it immediately instead of relying on Bellingcat and the notorious Eliot Higgins to create a fairy story for them. Again, I think the urge to dump this on Putin’s door step overcame, and still is trying to overcome common sense.

Did all this fuss for 2 reasons a) To save face -finding scapegoats b)To get rid of those criminals visiting the UK for the purpose of buying/selling/producing illegal drugs

.
I dunno but one thing that is still a mystery ......... where are ALL the victims? What is it they know that the UK government don’t want others to know? And, where were the Skripal’s for the missing three hours ..... not with the ‘assassins’ as they were still on a train most of that time. It is also very clear (again UK Govt. information) the Skripal’s both turned off their mobiles for that 3 h. period! Very strange, they obviously did not want to get tracked? Maybe they were into something underhand like drugs and dealing?

[Londonrake]

RW:

I can't believe you guys are wasting your time when the evidence is striking you on the face.
It is absolutely clear the 2 Russians are guilty of something. However the question is, are they guilty of the Skripals' poisoning or are they guilty of something else?

Good .... at last someone capable of looking at events and forming their own conclusion rather than parroting the UK Governments version of events. I agree with you they were obviously up to something but the evidence supplied JUST by the UK Government puts them in the wrong place at the wrong time to have attempted to murder the Skripa'ls by putting Novichoc on their door handle or any other means, because as they left Salisbury on the train the Skripals were parking their car.

I think you're crediting RW with a Pyrpolizer post.

It's not at all like you to get something totally wrong.

[Paphitis]

I think the UK and allies have handled this very well.

the 2 Russian Agents will not be traveling or even working for the GRU ever again. the entire Russian operation was a huge failure and international embarrassment to Russia. it has cost the Russian GRU a lot.

I think it is self evident that these 2 guys will never be caught unless our agencies manage to kidnap them somehow which isn't impossible. I would say it wouldn't be worth the risk to even try such a thing because who really cares? But, what the west have done is basically sent Pootin a very stern warning and it isn't just these 2 GRU that have paid the price. Something like 30 odd countries have evicted over 200 diplomats, and apparently most of these guys are GRU as well, according to Western Intelligence. In Australia, the Australian Government said that the diplomats evicted from Canberra were GRU and were under surveillance for years.

This has been a costly affair for Russia. And it will be a long time before anyone can trust them because this isn't the first time they have done something like this. They have been caught out many times.

These 2 guys will get punished enough. First, they have lost their careers and will be washing dishes for the rest of their lives. They will never be allowed to travel out of Russia for the rest of their days. These 2 guys are however not the main target. Pootin is the target, and Russia's reputation. The 2 GRU agents are just mere pawns.

it is also apparent to me that despite pootin's bravado and big posturing and the cyberwar and spy war he is waging against Europe, NATO, USA and other allies, his security apparatus isn't as sophisticated as he would like or want to believe when compared to ours. Pootin can only ponder on what once was with the Soviet empire and the KGB, but when it comes down to the crunch, he has been left wanting and very much behind the 8 ball. The mere fact that the UK new pretty much immediately who was responsible and had released evidence (an unprecedented move) was extremely impressive. Testament to the British Security agencies who have done a great job.

As always, he will deny everything as he always does, but he also knows that this is only for his domestic consumption because no one outside of Russia believes him or trusts him. Even if this was a set up, Pootin has come out second best here and has lost this one big time. And even if the west did pull such a thing off, Russia deserved to be hum by their own petard. I very much doubt it though because we don't need an excuse to start sending Russian "diplomats" on their way. We can just do it and just say nah na ne nah nah to Pootin and FU Pootin! No need any elaborate cover stories to give an inglorious criminal bastard some comeuppance!

basically, he wants to project his power, as a superpower, but he has a long way to go and isn't even in the game.

this was just a catalyst to clear out dozens or hundreds of other known spies working in their criminal embassies. It was also retaliation over many other things such as MH17, the chemical attacks in Syria and for just being a real clown.

We don't care that he has done the same to our embassies. It wouldn't worry us if he closed our embassies down, although that would hurt him more than us because it does not suit Pootin to not have any diplomatic dialogue with us. We can go without dialogue with him, but he can't with all of us. But having his embassies decimated in over 30 countries hurts him real bad, and it embarrasses him as well.

You still assume they were GRU agents, right? Fine.
However the question here is not whether they were GRU Agents or not.
The question is whether they were the ones who poisoned the Skripals.

and if in fact this was the case why the UK government basically donated them a ticket to freedom?
Can't you see that " nah na ne nah nah to Pootin and FU Pootin!" is too naive for an explanation for such a serious case??

I think that is very clear Pyro.

The evidence couldn't be anymore clear cut or incriminating. It is 100% certain.

What is serious is the fact that Russia engaged in State Sponsored terrorism against another country and it used a chemical weapon to boot. That is unprecedented and a dangerous act of war.

The 2 agents are not important. The only value for us that we would get from their arrest is gaining inside information about the GRU. To incarcerate them is of little value.

There is no other need to arrest them. The west already achieved the objectives it wanted to by releasing the evidence, and that was to evict hundreds of Russian diplomats/spies and inflict maximum international embarrassment.

The same thing happened in Australia. When it evicted 2 diplomats, the Australian Government alleged that they were known spies of the GRU, but it could not arrest them because it was too provocative and plus they were protected with immunity and international treaty. In addition, if we arrest them, there is no stopping Russia from arresting some of our diplomats as a retaliation. So Australia just let them get on a plane back to Russia and they will never be allowed back into Australia ever again. In addition to this, they will never be allowed to travel to many countries ever again.

We do not need the 2 agents. It's Pootin who is the target not these pawns.

[Robin Hood]

LR:

I think you're crediting RW with a Pyrpolizer post.

It's not at all like you to get something totally wrong.

My apologies to RW , and to Pyrpoliser my appreciation for a sensible contribution.

'Totally wrong' ........... not like you to exaggerate or misrepresent a fact ......... or even read something that will take a whole 1 minute out of your life, which you will never get back!

[Londonrake]

LR:

I think you're crediting RW with a Pyrpolizer post.

It's not at all like you to get something totally wrong.

My apologies to RW , and to Pyrpoliser my appreciation for a sensible contribution.

'Totally wrong' ........... not like you to exaggerate or misrepresent a fact ......... or even read something that will take a whole 1 minute out of your life, which you will never get back!

It's a measure of how surreal this thread has become that the suggestion two Russians who travelled 1000 miles, apparently in order to admire Salisbury cathedral in mid winter - stayed there for 3 hours 45 minutes but didn't visit the place, are now revealed as Russian Mafiosa, dealing in exotic drugs - is accepted, without the bat of an eyelid, as a "sensible contribution". I mean, are you really that dumb, or is it just increasing desperation?

Pretty much sums the whole subject up I think.

Meanwhile, all sorts of potty theories are posted - without a fraction of the now international, Switzerland joined the chorus today, evidence accumulated in this story - as proven fact. The Russians have a "secret" (Shhhhhhhhh!) death ray. The Syrian Sunnis regular as clockwork murder their own with chemical weapons to make that much loved democrat Assad look bad. Nukes "secretly" used in Syria and Iraq. A large group of NATO officers captured by the Syrian Army - etc, etc, etc - it's a long list of totally bonkers dross. No actual evidence required for complete acceptance of course.

Let's not wander into "The American moon landings were actually filmed in a coal shed" territory. Right up your street, I would have thought.

[Paphitis]

Oh yeh and they had to travel to Salisbury to get the chemicals and they just waltzed out of Heathrow with them. How much of these chemicals can they possibly carry?

As if such chemicals would not be available in Russia to make these drugs. Even in Cyprus they are available, and not in Russia. Pull the other one.

Either way, it is very academic now.

It makes absolutely no difference. Maximum damage and embarrassment has been inflicted. Objectives have been met. Russian Diplomats were told to piss off and treated like the criminals they are. Country after country has condemned Russia's illegal actions. So we win this one.

Suck on that Pootin boutana!