Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

I today spoke with my cousin who is a Doctor.
He said there's no hospital in the whole world that could ever diagnose a nerve agent poisoning case within 24 hours.
Even poisoning from known common causes like inhaling exhaust gases, carbon monoxide,LPG etc, drug over dose, food poisoning, poisoning aiming at suicide with chemicals etc is not an easy process and may take days to verify the exact cause while In most cases this is done after the victim dies during the necropsy...
He said in most cases they have to do guess work starting from the most likely causes.If the cause was lethal then there's only 1% chance the doctors would ever save the patients on the first place.

It seems the Doctors at the hospital where the Skipals were carried were some sort of rocket scientists compared to the Doctors we have in Cyprus though.

Isn't it surprising that not even ONE DOCTOR came out in the MSM, to describe the standard medical procedure they follow when two persons are brought unconscious to an emergency unit presumably for the same cause??

Don't even compare the Doctors in the UK with the Doctors in Cyprus.

Firstly, any Doctor worth their pinch of salt isn't going to return to Cyprus when they can go to the USA, Australia, or stay in the UK and earn many times more than what they would in Cyprus.

Cyprus gets the scraps. Occasionally, there will be the odd good Doctor that just want's the Cyprus Lifestyle but 9 out of 10 are going to go for the dollars.

Just compare the hospitals in Cyprus to the UK. The UK spends so much more on the health system.

It looks you have no idea how much money Doctors in the private sector make in Cyprus.
Considering not even one became a specialist in Cyprus it's obvious they all abandoned the countries they got their skills from.


Nevertheless do you have anything soldid from medical sources as to how it would ever be possible to identify the cause of such an extremely rare case of poisoning within 24 hours?

Really? There are hundreds of Cypriot Doctors still working in the UK, or USA and even Australia and they have become specialists on about 1 million per annum. That is what they earn.

I don't think so.
https://www.healthstaffrecruitment.com. ... in-the-uk/

Gone are the days Cypriots were easily accepted in Medical schools in the UK.
Today the majority are English School graduates that according to the school sum up to 73 students over a 5 year period.
https://www.englishschool.ac.cy/landing-media
Not much considering the fact we have more than 3000 active doctors in Cyprus.
As for the US it has always been almost impossible
http://www.paideia-news.com/index.php?id=109&hid=1096

Only a few abandon the countries they get their skills from but the majority don't because going back to Cyprus as a Doctor is a huge mistake.

It that another assumption? What's your evidence?

These countries retain them by throwing obscene amounts of money at them and promise work visas and Green Cards, and Cyprus gets the brain drain.

But that is beside the point. I am just amazed that a supposedly intelligent person in Cyprus who is a qualified Doctor is able to make such statements about a Nerve Agent without even knowing a thing about it.

I am amazed you are amazed. He is not a specialist on nerve agents just like 99.9999% of the Doctors worldwide aren't specialists either.
I guess you assume the remaining 0.00001% are all concentrated in Sailsbury's hospital.


The West has been studying these agents for about 75 years, since after WW2 starting off with the Humble Mustard Gas that was developed by NAZI Scientists and progressing from there to all kinds of substances in the Chemical and even Biological Warfare fields. Do you honestly believe we do not have the capability of making our own stockpiles?

We have developed and even issued our Soldiers with auto-injectors and pens of various chemicals which theoretically are suppose to be antidotes to various Nerve Agents such as Sarin and others and quite possibly this Russian Chemical as well these days which is known to us to the point where the USA can actually make it too.

The West has been looking at these capabilities for a very long time. Also looking at ways its soldiers and people are able to survive a Chemical and/or Biological War environment.

That's nonsense!

They would have flown the experts they needed from the USA if they had to. The UK would have experts of their own as well. As soon as they got a sneaking suspicion that they were dealing with something beyond their capabilities and possibly a poisoning of the CNS of some kind, they would have had the world's leading experts in the field on the case, since Sergey Skrypal was a Colonel of Russia's secretive GRU.

Even if they were going to die, they would be doing all kinds of autopsies and test on their bodies and they wouldn't leave such a job to just anyone.

And btw, there are at least 500 Cypriot Students who are in Australia studying, and some of them are doing Medicine in some of the best Medical Schools. usually, most of them don't go back.

[GreekIslandGirl]

I think somebody (above) should see a doctor:

University of Nicosia
- You can earn a British medical degree while studying in Cyprus.
- The St George’s, University of London 4-year MBBS is offered at the University of Nicosia, leading to a British primary medical qualification.
- Our graduates are working in some of the world’s best hospitals in the UK, US, Canada and many other countries.
- What’s more, all UK/EU graduates who applied to Foundation Year 1 have been accepted in the programme.
- Enjoy living in Cyprus – the safest country in the world for students (World Health Organization) – and studying in Nicosia, ranked #1 small city in Europe for lifestyle & education by the Financial Times.
Medlink

[Paphitis]

I think somebody (above) should see a doctor:

University of Nicosia
- You can earn a British medical degree while studying in Cyprus.
- The St George’s, University of London 4-year MBBS is offered at the University of Nicosia, leading to a British primary medical qualification.
- Our graduates are working in some of the world’s best hospitals in the UK, US, Canada and many other countries.
- What’s more, all UK/EU graduates who applied to Foundation Year 1 have been accepted in the programme.
- Enjoy living in Cyprus – the safest country in the world for students (World Health Organization) – and studying in Nicosia, ranked #1 small city in Europe for lifestyle & education by the Financial Times.
Medlink

Thank you and I know that Medical Degrees are offered in Cyprus. In fact there is another university that actually offers a full degree now.

But there are not enough positions, which means the vast majority go overseas.

All in all, there wouldn't be more than 20 or 30 positions in all of Cyprus and that is NOT enough to meet any demand.

Our graduates are working in some of the world’s best hospitals in the UK, US, Canada and many other countries.

This one here is just a collaboration and the students become interns in the UK, US or Canada.

[Pyrpolizer]

Paphitis:

But more to the point, what I was really getting at, as it appears it went over your head is the fact that how on earth would a Doctor in Cyprus actually know anything about Nerve Agents. The West issues antidotes and has been looking at these substances for decades. I think we have enough knowledge between us to be able to detect Nerve Agents and even quite possibly treat people that have been affected by Nerve Agents depending on the extent of the damage to their Central Nervous System.

No my friend you miss the point! MEDICAL doctors do NOT deal with nerve-agents they call in specialists! They deal with toxins many of which are well known and can be readily treated some less well known and are difficult to diagnose and/or treat. It is SCIENTISTS and BIOLOGISTS that create them and develop the antidotes. They are not medical doctors in the sense of the word.

I agree. That's what I was trying to tell Paphitis. There's also the question of what kind of specialist are you going to call in.
It looks they did call the exact/ precise type of specialists, who undoubtedly made the right diagnosis, so that 3 days after it was published in the Guardian.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis:

But more to the point, what I was really getting at, as it appears it went over your head is the fact that how on earth would a Doctor in Cyprus actually know anything about Nerve Agents. The West issues antidotes and has been looking at these substances for decades. I think we have enough knowledge between us to be able to detect Nerve Agents and even quite possibly treat people that have been affected by Nerve Agents depending on the extent of the damage to their Central Nervous System.

No my friend you miss the point! MEDICAL doctors do NOT deal with nerve-agents they call in specialists! They deal with toxins many of which are well known and can be readily treated some less well known and are difficult to diagnose and/or treat. It is SCIENTISTS and BIOLOGISTS that create them and develop the antidotes. They are not medical doctors in the sense of the word.

I agree. That's what I was trying to tell Paphitis. There's also the question of what kind of specialist are you going to call in.
It looks they did call the exact/ precise type of specialists, who undoubtedly made the right diagnosis, so that 3 days after it was published in the Guardian.

I don't know how they make these kinds of diagnosis, but I would say that the treating Doctors were able to work out they were dealing with something they had not seen before or something beyond their comprehension. They would have worked out that there was some-kind of damage to the CNS.

They would have reported it to the government and from there the Government would have bought in the right people. Even if there was no one in the UK (which I doubt) they would have got someone from the US or elsewhere.

The fact that Sergey was a former GRU would have quickly set off a lot of alarm bells immediately.

[Pyrpolizer]

They would have flown the experts they needed from the USA if they had to. The UK would have experts of their own as well. As soon as they got a sneaking suspicion that they were dealing with something beyond their capabilities and possibly a poisoning of the CNS of some kind, they would have had the world's leading experts in the field on the case, since Sergey Skrypal was a Colonel of Russia's secretive GRU.

Even if they were going to die, they would be doing all kinds of autopsies and test on their bodies and they wouldn't leave such a job to just anyone.

And btw, there are at least 500 Cypriot Students who are in Australia studying, and some of them are doing Medicine in some of the best Medical Schools. usually, most of them don't go back.

You still don't understand! 99.9999% of the Doctors, in any hospital, anywhere in the world (except Australia of course ) have no idea how the symptoms of a CNS poisoning differ from the symptoms of any other type of poisoning when they are presented with an unconscious patient. The "west" are not the magicians you think they are.
You are making assumptions upon assumptions upon assumption. Use so me logic for a change.

[Paphitis]

They would have flown the experts they needed from the USA if they had to. The UK would have experts of their own as well. As soon as they got a sneaking suspicion that they were dealing with something beyond their capabilities and possibly a poisoning of the CNS of some kind, they would have had the world's leading experts in the field on the case, since Sergey Skrypal was a Colonel of Russia's secretive GRU.

Even if they were going to die, they would be doing all kinds of autopsies and test on their bodies and they wouldn't leave such a job to just anyone.

And btw, there are at least 500 Cypriot Students who are in Australia studying, and some of them are doing Medicine in some of the best Medical Schools. usually, most of them don't go back.

You still don't understand! 99.9999% of the Doctors, in any hospital, anywhere in the world (except Australia of course ) have no idea how the symptoms of a CNS poisoning differ from the symptoms of any other type of poisoning when they are presented with an unconscious patient. The "west" are not the magicians you think they are.
You are making assumptions upon assumptions upon assumption. Use so me logic for a change.

I am not disputing that the majority of Doctors wouldn't know how to diagnose the problem, but the Government knew that the patients were Sergey Skrypal and his daughter Yulia. They would no doubt have looked into that.

In addition, all Doctors are fairly astute people, and would have taken steps to report the symptoms to the Government and the Government would have done whatever it is they needed to do.

In the UK and Australia, even a normal death can be scrutinized closely by the coroner. Sometimes, relatives do not get the body for up to 2 weeks because the Government is conducting autopsies. And this is with zero suspicion sometimes. Especially if the person is reasonably young. They look into everything.

Sergey wasn't just anyone.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

I am not disputing that the majority of Doctors wouldn't know how to diagnose the problem, but the Government knew that the patients were Sergey Skrypal and his daughter Yulia. They would no doubt have looked into that.

Now you are being more sensible! The doctor said, four days after the event, they had treated three victims of poisoning. The doctors treated them for a toxic poison and I am still convinced it was the neurotoxin known as Saxitoxin from the muscles they had for lunch. Why, because it fits the time scale, the door knob theory doesn’t. They ate at the same time, had the same meal and collapsed at the same time. With the door handle theory the chances are greater that only one of them may have touched the door handle, the last to leave the house. In any case they would have received different doses. They were different ages and different levels of health and fitness and yet some hours later they collapsed at the same time. To me that does not seem logical.

The UK government definitely knew who they were as their minder Sgt. Bailey was their shadow. They let the doctors carry on doing what they were doing and then moved PD specialists into the hospital, threw the regular staff out on the context of it being a nerve agent. They clamped down on the news and created the Novichoc story to, once again, bash Putin and pushed that story onto the MSM.

In addition, all Doctors are fairly astute people, and would have taken steps to report the symptoms to the Government and the Government would have done whatever it is they needed to do.

But four days after the event the doctors in Salisbury hospital were still treating them for poisoning so they had identified the symptoms although they never got the opportunity to make it public. That is what the letter to The Times was all about and why the doctors and other medical staff were silenced.

In the UK and Australia, even a normal death can be scrutinized closely by the coroner. Sometimes, relatives do not get the body for up to 2 weeks because the Government is conducting autopsies. And this is with zero suspicion sometimes. Especially if the person is reasonably young. They look into everything.

The coroner needs a reason to perform an autopsy; he can’t just decide he needs a bit of overtime! There has to be some reason that needs explanation .... as you say a young person drops dead for no apparent reason. If as you say it was an old fart like me they wouldn’t waste the money!

Sergey wasn't just anyone.

Precisely .... he was still active by all accounts and was mixed up in ‘things’ and maybe they thought Yulia was a courier, maybe she was, maybe she was just an innocent victim of events. I wonder, will we ever know?

[Pyrpolizer]

I am not disputing that the majority of Doctors wouldn't know how to diagnose the problem, but the Government knew that the patients were Sergey Skrypal and his daughter Yulia. They would no doubt have looked into that.

In addition, all Doctors are fairly astute people, and would have taken steps to report the symptoms to the Government and the Government would have done whatever it is they needed to do.

In the UK and Australia, even a normal death can be scrutinized closely by the coroner. Sometimes, relatives do not get the body for up to 2 weeks because the Government is conducting autopsies. And this is with zero suspicion sometimes. Especially if the person is reasonably young. They look into everything.

Sergey wasn't just anyone.

No matter how astute the Doctors might be there's no way to distinguish the symptoms of a nerve agent poisoning from any other type of poisoning, when the victim is unconscious. So your assumption that they reported the symptoms to the Government and then based on those symptoms the Govnt did what they had to do cannot be true.

I agree with you that they knew who the victims were all along.
I am ready to accept that the Government called in specialists based on suspicion and probably based on the fact that other Russians in the UK were poisoned in strange ways in the past.

Now whether those specialists finally discovered a nerve agent poisoning or not, and were able to confirm it beyond any reasonable doubt 3 days after the event, is another story.

[Paphitis]

I am not disputing that the majority of Doctors wouldn't know how to diagnose the problem, but the Government knew that the patients were Sergey Skrypal and his daughter Yulia. They would no doubt have looked into that.

In addition, all Doctors are fairly astute people, and would have taken steps to report the symptoms to the Government and the Government would have done whatever it is they needed to do.

In the UK and Australia, even a normal death can be scrutinized closely by the coroner. Sometimes, relatives do not get the body for up to 2 weeks because the Government is conducting autopsies. And this is with zero suspicion sometimes. Especially if the person is reasonably young. They look into everything.

Sergey wasn't just anyone.

No matter how astute the Doctors might be there's no way to distinguish the symptoms of a nerve agent poisoning from any other type of poisoning, when the victim is unconscious. So your assumption that they reported the symptoms to the Government and then based on those symptoms the Govnt did what they had to do cannot be true.

I agree with you that they knew who the victims were all along.
I am ready to accept that the Government called in specialists based on suspicion and probably based on the fact that other Russians in the UK were poisoned in strange ways in the past.

Now whether those specialists finally discovered a nerve agent poisoning or not, and were able to confirm it beyond any reasonable doubt 3 days after the event, is another story.

No you are making some pretty big assumptions here.

Something of this magnitude would have already involved Britain's MI5 and MI6 as well as CIA and NSA. The alarm bells would have been triggered immediately and the authorities would have suspected foul play straight away. And we are assuming they had no intelligence because the UK Prime Minister said that there were intercepts from Agios Nikolaos in Cyprus which verify Russian complicity or involvement.

From there, the Government would have bought in all their leading Chemical and Poisons Experts from anywhere is the world if necessary. They would have been suspicious of Russian involvement from the beginning and they would have done all kinds of tests including radiation.

No cost would have been spared. they would have had the best people working on this from the beginning.