Cyprus-Forum.com

[MrH]

Cyprus Rebirth: UNITARY or PARTITION? Take your pick!

The birth of the Cyprus Republic in 1960 came about as a result of an agreement that was paved together which in hindsight contained the ingredients which led to its inevitable demise. “EOKA” fought for Enosis, union with Greece, an aspiration which the Greek Cypriots had to abandon in favour of independence, as in essence the Turkish Cypriot community didn’t much fancy being attached to Greece. I won’t go into the whys and wherefores, who encouraged who to do what, etc., as this deflects from my premise. Suffice it to say that from the breakdown of the functioning of the state in December 1963, another set of parameters were set in train which culminated in the Greek coup of the 15th July 1974 and Turkish Military intervention under article four of the Treaty of Guarantee and Alliance during the same summer [of 1974], exactly five days after the Greek inspired coup, which if succeeded would have turned the island into a decades long civil war between, not only Greek and Turkish Cypriots, but Greek “mainlanders” and Greek Cypriots themselves – a reality today the Greek Cypriots have forgotten too easily!

From this point onward, Cypriots of all ethnicity have had to witness several obvious and failed attempts to broker a deal based on the idea of a Cyprus federation. In effect, they’ve been run worn out by their own ineffective politicians and their respective ‘motherlands’, Greece and Turkey, with the United Nations in attendance as a pointless observer on a first date. Time after time hopes have been raised with assertions by their politicians, usually to serve their own means in tricking their respective public in gaining power to the presidency, that they’re apparently committed to resolve the issue with all efforts since 1963 resulting in complete, and embarrassing failure – blaming each side of intransigence.

So where do we stand and where do we go from here?
Let’s get one thing straight. All this previous talk of “Cantons”, “bi-zonal/bi-communal federation”, “confederation et al” means one thing: PARTITION. And yet the politicians hide, bluff and dance round the meaning of these words as if their audience are devoid of intelligence and are to be taken for fools, including those whom still believe that the bloody events of the history of Cyprus can be forgotten and a return to the never seen “Good old days”.

Whilst private initiatives by some to push for the island to be reunited under some sort of federal arrangement are commendable (from 1974-1983), from that date onward, it’s my contention that the political establishment and the bulk of the populace don’t want any of these fancy permutations of so-called reunification as they’re more than happy with how things are today. In short, nothing will ever change, or can change unless the UN themselves changes the basis for the resumption of the Cyprus problem and sets a new (more realistic) parameter. The recent Greek and Turkish Cypriot elections (President, Prime Minster – respectively) have once again proven that nothing will change from their watered down political positions. Only DIKO party leader, Nikolas Papadopoulos, had the audacity and liberty in voicing the true nature of the need for a change in the foundation of the United Nations’s approach to the Cyprus problem, but unfortunately he was kept quiet by the wishful voters of DISY and AKEL. Therefore, it is ultimately up to the UN to set the stage only, or is it?

Whatever words one uses, partition exists and there’s no going back to what it apparently once was (from 1960-1963). It’s high time that those who govern ceased hiding behind their cowardly, lawyer-speak semantics and dealt with matters as they exist instead of constantly peddling a wish list they, as well as those they represent, don’t even believe in as we all know that a federal formula for Cyprus is just a watered-down version of partition with risks!

Thus, if unification is not exactly what it says it should be, a unitary state with no restrictions, cantons, bi-zonal areas or constituent states (implying indirect partition), then our leaders should now be honest after 50 years of failed talks and talk Partition. Today’s diluted “federal” formula, as seen fail miserably with the former Yugoslavia for example, will never be accepted by either community. Either Partition is partition, or Unitary is unitary, where the reality is that there is NO Middle-Ground or Compromise. The notion and practise with the current UN Sponsored talks based on the “convergence” and so called “compromise “of each side’s “red lines” will only eventually cause another future conflict, and even possibly drag other nations into it too!

Be Honest!

[Get Real!]

Cyprus Rebirth: UNITARY or PARTITION? Take your pick!

My pick is a free dinghy for you MrH; all paid for by the State, and I can see myself waving a hanky in the air as you paddle away north.

[Sotos]

Partition is what we have now. In the kind of partition we have now, GCs have the one and only legal state represented in the UN, EU etc, and TCs have a pseudo state recognized by nobody except Turkey. So the question to you MR.H is why would we change the kind of partition we have now with a different form of partition where the pseudo state is legalized and equated to ours? And don't start the threats again because that will not work. Make a proposal for partition based on land ownership: 82% - 18%, and then maybe we will agree to it.

[repulsewarrior]

...have we in effect negotiated as a Federation?

Where is the debate as Cypriots?

Who are the "Turks", and those not "Turkish"?

Who are the "Greeks" and those not "Greek"?

...in Cyprus Greeks and Turks have voted, not for "them".

This is clear.

...i don't despair MrH because it is still a fact, Cypriots exist; they have not just disappeared, whether "they" have excluded them from the issue as it has been framed, after the decades, or not.

Indeed a "Turk" would be glad to keep what they have, but it is theft, plain and simple, worse than that those who were murdered for it, were not "Greeks" the so-called enemy, but those who stayed with the belief that as Cypriots, Turkish or Greek, respect for the Human condition was a Universal Principal; who would have believed that "Turks" no better than "Greeks", could gain the upper hand, over Turks, for "Turkishness", now even in Turkey. So it is, with this pressure "Turks" apply to look at the world as us, and (read: not us) them. I can say, MrH, that i am a Turk, because i am no "Turk"; can you?

...as for your suggestion Sotos, such a place of "purity" on this island has no place, but if the "Turks" suggest a small coastline, like 4%, it would likely be received as not unreasonable as a demand, especially if as a land mass not more than 7% was ceded to such a political identity. And before my idea is poopooed, think, in social-economic terms, if its sustainability was a consideration, such a concentration of what is their wealth would produce. Like the "Greeks", the "Turks" cannot get what they want, if they get anything it must be less than what they "had" before. Cyprus is Cypriot.

[Kikapu]

This is interesting.

Gavin Jones is MrH, or MrH is Gavin Jones???

This is part of an article by Gavin Jones in Cyprus Mail February 4th, 2018:

The birth of the Cyprus Republic in 1960 came about as a result of an agreement that was cobbled together which in hindsight contained the ingredients which led to its inevitable demise. Eoka fought for Enosis, union with Greece, an aspiration which the Greek Cypriots had to jettison in favour of independence, as in essence the Turkish Cypriot community didn’t much fancy being attached to Greece. I won’t go into the whys, wherefores, who encouraged who to do what, etc., as this deflects from my premise. Suffice it to say that from the breakdown of the functioning of the state in December 1963, another set of parameters were set in train which culminated in the Greek coup and Turkish invasion during the summer of 1974.

From this point onwards, Cypriots of all ethnicities have had to witness several attempts to broker a deal which have all fallen by the wayside. In effect, they’ve been run ragged by their own ineffective politicians and their respective ‘motherlands’, Greece and Turkey, with the United Nations in attendance like a gooseberry on a first date. Time after time hopes have been raised with assertions by their politicians that they’re committed to resolve the issue but all efforts have resulted in failure.

So where do we stand and where do we go from here? Let’s get one thing straight. All this previous talk of cantons, bi-zonal/bi-communal federation, confederation et al means one thing: partition. And yet the politicians hide, bluff and dance round the meaning of these words as if their audience are devoid of intelligence and are to be taken for fools.

Whilst private initiatives by some to push for the island to be reunited under some sort of federal arrangement are commendable, it’s my contention that the political establishment and the bulk of the populace don’t want any of these fancy permutations of so-called reunification as they’re more than happy with how things are. In short, “they’re over there and we’re over here”.

Whatever words one uses, partition exists and there’s no going back to what it once was. And it’s high time that those who govern ceased hiding behind their cowardly, lawyer-speak semantics and dealt with matters as they exist instead of constantly peddling a wish list they, as well as those they represent, don’t even believe in.

http://cyprus-mail.com/2018/02/04/parti ... peak-name/

.....and this is part of the article MrH posted above:

The birth of the Cyprus Republic in 1960 came about as a result of an agreement that was paved together which in hindsight contained the ingredients which led to its inevitable demise. “EOKA” fought for Enosis, union with Greece, an aspiration which the Greek Cypriots had to abandon in favour of independence, as in essence the Turkish Cypriot community didn’t much fancy being attached to Greece. I won’t go into the whys and wherefores, who encouraged who to do what, etc., as this deflects from my premise. Suffice it to say that from the breakdown of the functioning of the state in December 1963, another set of parameters were set in train which culminated in the Greek coup of the 15th July 1974 and Turkish Military intervention under article four of the Treaty of Guarantee and Alliance during the same summer [of 1974], exactly five days after the Greek inspired coup, which if succeeded would have turned the island into a decades long civil war between, not only Greek and Turkish Cypriots, but Greek “mainlanders” and Greek Cypriots themselves – a reality today the Greek Cypriots have forgotten too easily!

From this point onward, Cypriots of all ethnicity have had to witness several obvious and failed attempts to broker a deal based on the idea of a Cyprus federation. In effect, they’ve been run worn out by their own ineffective politicians and their respective ‘motherlands’, Greece and Turkey, with the United Nations in attendance as a pointless observer on a first date. Time after time hopes have been raised with assertions by their politicians, usually to serve their own means in tricking their respective public in gaining power to the presidency, that they’re apparently committed to resolve the issue with all efforts since 1963 resulting in complete, and embarrassing failure – blaming each side of intransigence.

So where do we stand and where do we go from here?
Let’s get one thing straight. All this previous talk of “Cantons”, “bi-zonal/bi-communal federation”, “confederation et al” means one thing: PARTITION. And yet the politicians hide, bluff and dance round the meaning of these words as if their audience are devoid of intelligence and are to be taken for fools, including those whom still believe that the bloody events of the history of Cyprus can be forgotten and a return to the never seen “Good old days”.

Whilst private initiatives by some to push for the island to be reunited under some sort of federal arrangement are commendable (from 1974-1983), from that date onward, it’s my contention that the political establishment and the bulk of the populace don’t want any of these fancy permutations of so-called reunification as they’re more than happy with how things are today. In short, nothing will ever change, or can change unless the UN themselves changes the basis for the resumption of the Cyprus problem and sets a new (more realistic) parameter. The recent Greek and Turkish Cypriot elections (President, Prime Minster – respectively) have once again proven that nothing will change from their watered down political positions. Only DIKO party leader, Nikolas Papadopoulos, had the audacity and liberty in voicing the true nature of the need for a change in the foundation of the United Nations’s approach to the Cyprus problem, but unfortunately he was kept quiet by the wishful voters of DISY and AKEL. Therefore, it is ultimately up to the UN to set the stage only, or is it?

Whatever words one uses, partition exists and there’s no going back to what it apparently once was (from 1960-1963). It’s high time that those who govern ceased hiding behind their cowardly, lawyer-speak semantics and dealt with matters as they exist instead of constantly peddling a wish list they, as well as those they represent, don’t even believe in as we all know that a federal formula for Cyprus is just a watered-down version of partition with risks!

cyprus46130.html#p864590

Just who is plagiarizing whom, if anyone is at all!!!???

[Sotos]

Just who is plagiarizing whom, if anyone is at all!!!???

Either way it just proves that Cyprus Mail will publish the anti-Cypriot propaganda nonsense of just about anybody who sends them an email.

[DrCyprus]

The Doxxing begins

[Oceanside50]

A federation, based on The principles of. BBF is completely out of the question, due to its racist segregative basis. A partition is also out of the question as the EU will not allow it.. the only solution is a unitary state, where all rights including property rights are guaranteed.

[repulsewarrior]

...Oceanside, you live in the US, America is a BBF, what are you saying?

(intentions count)

...xronia pola, did i wish you a Happy New Year?

[Kikapu]

Just who is plagiarizing whom, if anyone is at all!!!???

Either way it just proves that Cyprus Mail will publish the anti-Cypriot propaganda nonsense of just about anybody who sends them an email.

Sotos, The two articles are almost identical, supposedly written by two different people. How can that be?