Cyprus-Forum.com

[CrookedRiverGuy]

This ain’t a dick measuring contest.

They couldn't tell us about most of the stuff onboard because of the Security Classification so the RAAFy kept saying that in this bulkhead we have "some other fancy stuff that does some pretty fancy shit"

Seems as if the RAAF just loooves dick measuring.

[Robin Hood]

As an addendum to my previous comments on North Korea history ............

This shows what happened before ’US Good guys - North Koreans Bad guys’ became the common and official perception of events. It paints a rather different picture of the country to that perpetuated by western powers. But you have to read it all to understand the probable events and the authors thinking.

Understanding North Korea - Taking a History and Testing Hypotheses

When there is conflict between two parties, it is best if each party tries to understand and think from the other’s point of view, as opposed to thinking only from their own point of view and perpetuating misconceptions regarding the other’s view.
When a physician is confronted with a problem, the first step is to take a complete and accurate history; the second step is to test hypotheses generated by that history and the physician’s background knowledge and experience.

Let’s start by taking a history of what has occurred in Korea over the past century or more:

Full article a 10 minute read:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/understanding-north-korea-2/5605020

Paphitis, going just by your comments on here you obviously have a military rather than a commercial aviation background? That explains a lot about the way you post. I came across the following quote, which explains :

"I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all members of the military profession I never had an original thought until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher- ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service." : General Smedley Butler. USMC (Ret.)

I think what he is saying is that the military is brain washed .... any military ..... as that is the only way they could be successful in working to a single purpose. You are overconfident because having you think otherwise would demoralise you and force you to face reality.

[Paphitis]

This equipment is proven to be extremely capable of hunting and killing any of Russia's Submarines. In fact it is capable of hunting anyone's submarine and sending it to the bottom. There is not much chance of any escape from a P8.

If the Russians have something better than that then good luck to them. However, we know that they have equipment probably capable enough to hunt our submarines, but they are not as advance as our capabilities.

Also our submarines are far more smaller, maneuverable, and quieter than any Russian Submarine, and even they cant evade a P8 if their life depended on it.

A P8 is pretty much a Submarine's Grimm Reaper, You don't want any signature picked up by a P8 because that is the END! An ICBM Submarine will need to fire all its payload quickly because its on borrowed time.

Russia's latest submarines were all commissioned in 1990 and the last in 2004. The USN Columbia Class still is under development and hasn't been commissioned yet. Russians have nothing in the pipeline and the Submarine fleet is in a State of neglect as only 1 Typhoon is actually working.

What is extremely important is how quiet a submarine is. Western Submarine's are put up against the P8 and it is virtually impossible to evade Magnetic Anomaly and Sonobouy detection from a P8. No matter what they do, any American Submarine is pretty much stuffed and the Russian and Chinese Submarines even more so. Even against a P3 Orion, ANY submarine will meet its END.

You can't OUTRUN it or HIDE. A Subs only friend is depth but they will just Depth Charge it to smithereens. And they know the speed, direction, depth, Rate of Descent and they just lay the charges right in front of the sub and anticipate the depth.

Any Sub that survives is a miracle.

Look the Americans have been working out ways at hunting Russian Submarines for a long time, and they have all the major software and electronics companies working on hundreds of projects and programs. The breadth and scope of all that is just insane.

If the Russians can beat that on their Budget, then good luck to them.

The P8 can still hunt and kill their submarines. We know we have that capability. Our submarines are quieter and more maneuverable than Russian Submarines, which places us ahead. I never said they can't hunt or kill our submarines. I am sure they can, but our submarines are harder to find. Their huge chunks of steel are a bit easier. And the P8 platform is absolutely amazing. I saw one in the flesh the other day and I was dumb founded. It is incredible and the things it can do is amazing. The damn thing can also fire off Harpoon Missiles, Tomahawks and Torpedoes. Good luck if you are on receiving end of that.

[Paphitis]

The P8 was purchased because WE KNOW it has the capability of Hunting and Destroying ANY Russian or Chinese Submarine. That is their primary purpose.

We know they have that capability because we have tested them on USN Ohio Class Submarines, and they were able to detect them, as well as the Collins Class. We also believe that the Ohio Class and Collins Class are harder to hunt and detect than any of the Russian or Chinese fleet. How much harder or easier we do not know, but we believe our Submarines are the quietest and most stealthy. Also, the Americans I am certain have already tested the P8 against all the Russian Submarines and the RAAF will get its chance to do the same in the very near future if they have not already done so.

If the P8 Poseidon was incapable of meeting RAAF specifications and requirements, then it would not have been purchased.

As I said before, we are incapable of defending ourselves from an invasion without USA but we can hunt and kill Russian Submarines. This should give everyone a very big clue that the American Military isn't just confined to theirs alone. The US Military is a NETWORK of alliances! It'd not just about America.

[Robin Hood]

The P8 was purchased because WE KNOW it has the capability of Hunting and Destroying ANY Russian or Chinese Submarine. That is their primary purpose.

We know they have that capability because we have tested them on USN Ohio Class Submarines, and they were able to detect them, as well as the Collins Class. We also believe that the Ohio Class and Collins Class are harder to hunt and detect than any of the Russian or Chinese fleet. How much harder or easier we do not know, but we believe our Submarines are the quietest and most stealthy. Also, the Americans I am certain have already tested the P8 against all the Russian Submarines and the RAAF will get its chance to do the same in the very near future if they have not already done so.

If the P8 Poseidon was incapable of meeting RAAF specifications and requirements, then it would not have been purchased.

As I said before, we are incapable of defending ourselves from an invasion without USA but we can hunt and kill Russian Submarines. This should give everyone a very big clue that the American Military isn't just confined to theirs alone. The US Military is a NETWORK of alliances! It'd not just about America.

I am no weapons expert but I think your P-8 is vulnerable. If I were the enemy planning a defence against it, I would capitalise on those vulnerabilities 1) It is a bog standard commercial airframe with no stealth capability. 2) It is slow, what 500 kts ?

Now think ...... kinetic weapons!!! The Russians and the Chinese are both into this big time as it does not infringe the conventions on weapons in space as that applies only to nuclear weapons and it is simple and low cost.

The P-8 can be easily tracked by conventional RADAR or from satellites. A kinetic missile is small but incredibly fast travelling at Mk.10 or maybe even faster with a war head in tungsten or depleted uranium. It would descend from above the atmosphere and by the time it was detected any defence or avoidance would be too late. They splinter a relatively small segmented war head into hundreds of dense projectiles travelling at an incredible speed. It is the equivalent of firing a shot gun at a clay pigeon. The weapon is almost invisible, they don't need a heavy explosive warhead and with so many individual projectiles they don't need to be that accurate......... and it is cheap.

So I am afraid your P-8, sophisticated as it is, would get toasted!

Again you are overconfident. You should look for weaknesses in the system, not just convince yourself you are invulnerable.

BTW: I believe that both Russian and Chinese subs can fire hypersonic (I assume anti-aircraft/ship) missiles whilst submerged?

[Paphitis]

It' not vulnerable at all. In fact it is what they call a high value asset in termns of resources and protection allocated towards these aircraft.

There is nothing standard about the P8. The P8 has about $200 million worth of electronics and countermeasures installed on the airframe all doing various tasks.

http://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/F ... xYycb+rKng

In the above photo, the bomb bay doors are open. I had a look at the guts of one these the other day and geez. this is where the Torpedoes and Tomahawks will be fired from. The Harpoons will be wing mounted.

The aircraft is designed to work in support of the Naval Fleet. One of the P8s purposes is to protect the fleet from Attack Submarines. Another purpose is to detect and destroy attack and Ballistic missile Submarines and to utilize the Fleet to assist with the ASW. As such, the P8 gets its Air Defence from the Fleet. Now, wherever our Naval Fleet is, there is also substantial Air Superiority capability. In other words, either the RAAF are flying their Super Hornets, or our fleet is operating under USN or USAF Air Cover. It depends where they are. If they are in the Mediterranean, then chances are that its USN providing the Air Cover as the P8 is probably assigned to the USN Fleet.

In addition, the P8's will not be operating in Littoral Seas most of the time. They will be in Blue Water. In the Middle of the pacific, Indian, Atlantic, and Arctic Circles doing what they are suppose to be doing. Therefore, out of range of most enemy Fighter Aircraft without refuelling capability.

They look at all these things before sending an aircraft out.

There are many more examples of high value assets such as the Wedgetail.

https://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/ ... 1Q4caywtso

These aircraft are highly protected. The chances of an enemy aircraft getting to one of these is minimal. The enemy will need to get through so many layers of protection before it gets to a Wedgetail or P8.

Andother highly protected asset is BBJ or the Prime Minister's jet.

https://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/ ... r2t6wx4AV3

This aircraft also has defensive capabilities similar to those found on the Wedgetails and P8s Plus, it will be under heavy escort if at war.

The P8, as well as the Wedgies and BBJ, have 6 Early Warning Devices for inbound missiles, have the ability of jamming and destroying the missiles enroute with their countermeasures. That is the last line of defence and it will only get to that if you get through all the other layers such as naval Point Area Defence, Air Su[eriority Aircraft which will suicide to protect these assets by placing themselves between the protected aircraft and the missile if they need to, and then all the Electronic Counter Measures.

https://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/ ... r2t6wx4AV3

You wouldn't even be able to talk on a CB in such an electronic warfare environment, let alone get an aircraft or missile close to a P8.

If the Russians can, well good luck to them. But geez, i don't think so.

[Robin Hood]

Read my previous comment!

No matter what bells-and-whistles you put in your P-8 ...... it's still f****d!

[Paphitis]

Read my previous comment!

No matter what bells-and-whistles you put in your P-8 ...... it's still f****d!

The only thing fucked along that food chain are Submarines.

There is little difference between a P8 or a Wedgetail, or Australia's BBJ (Airforce One), or the Real Air Force One (USAF). They are all airliners.

If some power can circumvent all the protections or layers of defence afforded to these aircraft then good luck to them. They will throw everything at them to defend these aircraft if needed.

And the Navy Fleet that the P8 supports has AEGIS Fire and Control. Each Ship can track and engage 1000 targets simultaneously.

Wherever there is a Capital Ship or Aircraft Carrier (Adelaide or Canberra), there are AEGIS escort ships, fighters and Capital Aircraft (Wedgetail and P8).

[Robin Hood]

Read my previous comment!

No matter what bells-and-whistles you put in your P-8 ...... it's still f****d!

The only thing fucked along that food chain are Submarines.

There is little difference between a P8 or a Wedgetail, or Australia's BBJ (Airforce One), or the Real Air Force One (USAF). They are all airliners.

If some power can circumvent all the protections or layers of defence afforded to these aircraft then good luck to them. They will throw everything at them to defend these aircraft if needed.

And the Navy Fleet that the P8 supports has AEGIS Fire and Control. Each Ship can track and engage 1000 targets simultaneously.

Wherever there is a Capital Ship or Aircraft Carrier (Adelaide or Canberra), there are AEGIS escort ships, fighters and Capital Aircraft (Wedgetail and P8).

You just don't get it at all! Do you ever actually read and understand what people try to explain to you?

As I tried to explain ...... kinetic weapons i.e. weapons that rely upon kinetic energy. They can have a very simple guidance system because they do not need to be that accurate! They work like a shotgun on steroids.

They are coming at you at around 9000mph+ (or 2.5 miles a second) at a steep angle from above ........ there is no protection. It is like a meteor ........ you won't even see it until it is too late. You cannot shoot it down and you can't avoid it. Consider it a man made meteor! A solid projectile say the size of a football would blow thousands of tons of earth into the atmosphere as it dissipates the kinetic energy on impact. The only protection for your P-8 even from pieces weighing less than 100g ......... is heavy armour. Your the mathematician, you do the maths ..... it does not look to good.

You had just better hope luck is on your side and all the splinters miss ..... if they don't then your f****d ! You are over confident and therefore over reliant on your technology !

It would be much cheaper to try and make friends out of your enemies instead of threatening them all the time, as the Western powers seem to consistently do! You NEED China commercially .... you don't NEED the US except to provide you with weapons, that you don't need anyway! As a country you are buying expensive protection against a phantom of your own creation.

[Paphitis]

Read my previous comment!

No matter what bells-and-whistles you put in your P-8 ...... it's still f****d!

The only thing fucked along that food chain are Submarines.

There is little difference between a P8 or a Wedgetail, or Australia's BBJ (Airforce One), or the Real Air Force One (USAF). They are all airliners.

If some power can circumvent all the protections or layers of defence afforded to these aircraft then good luck to them. They will throw everything at them to defend these aircraft if needed.

And the Navy Fleet that the P8 supports has AEGIS Fire and Control. Each Ship can track and engage 1000 targets simultaneously.

Wherever there is a Capital Ship or Aircraft Carrier (Adelaide or Canberra), there are AEGIS escort ships, fighters and Capital Aircraft (Wedgetail and P8).

You just don't get it at all! Do you ever actually read and understand what people try to explain to you?

As I tried to explain ...... kinetic weapons i.e. weapons that rely upon kinetic energy. They can have a very simple guidance system because they do not need to be that accurate! They work like a shotgun on steroids.

They are coming at you at around 9000mph+ (or 2.5 miles a second) at a steep angle from above ........ there is no protection. It is like a meteor ........ you won't even see it until it is too late. You cannot shoot it down and you can't avoid it. Consider it a man made meteor! A solid projectile say the size of a football would blow thousands of tons of earth into the atmosphere as it dissipates the kinetic energy on impact. The only protection for your P-8 even from pieces weighing less than 100g ......... is heavy armour. Your the mathematician, you do the maths ..... it does not look to good.

You had just better hope luck is on your side and all the splinters miss ..... if they don't then your f****d ! You are over confident and therefore over reliant on your technology !

It would be much cheaper to try and make friends out of your enemies instead of threatening them all the time, as the Western powers seem to consistently do! You NEED China commercially .... you don't NEED the US except to provide you with weapons, that you don't need anyway! As a country you are buying expensive protection against a phantom of your own creation.

What nonsense.

There is no scope for any weapon to be coming from above these aircraft. And at 9000Mph no less. What kind of weapon has the speed of a meteorite? Must be an alien force from the planet Zeon.

They have substantial air cover. The Ships they support operate AEGIS. They see everything that comes towards them and they are able to respond and defend themselves with missiles and CIWS.

They usually have many fighters above them at 60,000FT just waiting for any threat whether from another aircraft or missiles. But if the threat is an alien one from outer space, then no worries. You watch too many American movies.

Usually, nothing at all is allowed to fly in their ADIZ. They will not let anyone anywhere near their Ships. The Russians or the Chinese can't just come strolling in without any repercussions. Even in peace time (They did it once) they are completely jammed up. In wartime, the Russians wouldn't be stupid enough to try it unless they were certain to shoot down all our aircraft and sink all our ships. Any of their equipment that comes close would be doing an act of suicide.

We are not threatening anyone, just protecting our sea lanes and trade routes as per the UNCLOS - International Law.

Closing down these Sea lanes IS a threat against our National Security and trade and a direct violation of UNCLOS. It places us under trade siege. It places certain countries like Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and Philippines under direct siege and that is actually an act of war against those countries. One of the sea lanes in question is the biggest sea lane on the planet in terms of the amount of trade that navigates through.