Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

STUD:

I think you are referring to the Khazar Hypothesis of the origin of the Ashkenasim, which is seemingly a 19th Century invention and where the genetic have seemingly found no substantive evidence of a Khazar origin among Ashkenazi Jews, abut rather evidence they have mixed Near Eastern/Mediterranean and Southern European origins

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I am not an expert on the origins of the Jewish people but the people who produced the article I have to believe know more than I do. I have to rely on those who are credible. I post something credible that has the expertise I lack and the authors who, unlike you, provides links to their sources. Probability says it is likely more true than not, although not necessarily 100% accurate.

I was going purely on my memory and had read about this tie to a race of pagans in the region of the Caspian and Black Sea but that was many years ago, I was wrong apparently.

You refer to the ‘...... origins to the Khazar Hypothesis of the origin of the Ashkenasim.’ It is not an hypothesis, that is simply your opinion. The Ashkenazims origins have been scientifically proved to be predominantly Eastern European, although not exclusively so, but enough to say that the Zionists exclusive claims to the area of Jerusalem and Palestine as their birth-right as told to them by their God, ...... has a few holes in it. The Sephardic Jews are the ones that came from Spain and Southern Europe.

So I post the follow studies based on modern technology rather than relying on vague historical documents written a couple of millennia ago by several authors about whom we know very little.

It seems, as far as I understand what they are saying, that the female Ashkenazim line is around 80% European DNA and the male DNA says around 30%, the average being 60-80% of their DNA indicating European origin.. So the ‘ME’ origin is a minor part of the mix. Your statement is not accurate according to modern research. I think your 19th century reference relates to the beginning of Zionism not the Jews origins?

https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37821/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/a ... en.1006644

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-ashkenazi-jews-dna-diseases-20140909-story.html


Personally I have no problem with the Jews having a homeland in Palestine. Jews have had a homeland there for centuries. It is the demand of ‘exclusive entitlement’ to the area as a homeland ONLY for Zionists and Jews, that I have problems with ..... as it seems, so do most of the rest of the World apart from Trump ..... who assumed he is speaking for the American People! I don’t think he does to be honest from my conversations over the years with Americans.

If the situation was purely a religious one there would be no problem. Once the Zionists decided to piggy-back on Judaism and use the Jewish association to create their own State, then the trouble starts. IMO: A version of the original UN proposal for the partition of the region would be equitable for both the Jews and the Arabs. With Jerusalem and with 10% of the surrounding land declared as an International Zone of religious significance is the sensible answer. I think Trumps action has turfed the US out of any further negotiations on the solution. The Zionists and those in the US have to be taken out of the equation!!!

[Robin Hood]

If there is any interest in the story.......

This was the story I recalled about the origins of the Ashkenazim and Sephardim Jews. It seems to precede the scientific research and defines the Ashkenazim as opposed to the Jewish aspect of the DNA story. It defines the Khazarian links in the DNA story. How accurate this is I have no idea but it does not detract from the previous links.

The Khazarian Empire – Fred Millar.

Jews of our era fall into two main categories the Ashkenazim Jew (common), whom in 1960 numbered around 11 million. The term Ashkenazim Jew is associated with Germany, Hungary and Poland which shared culture and borders with the Khazarian empire and received a large migration of "Yiddish" people from the disintegrating Khazarian kingdom.
The Sephardim Jews who numbered about 500,000 in 1960 and are the descendants of the Spanish Jews that were expelled from Spain by the Moslems in 1492.

Now are you wondering the same as I am, just who are the majority of those people now living in modern day Israel anyway?, Well it looks as though 90% of them are probably descendants of the Great Khazars and never were descendants of Abraham.

Full story .......

http://www.lostisrael.com/khazars.htm

[Paphitis]

It makes historic sense for Jerusalem to be recognized as a wholly (and Holy) Israeli city - as to whether it's their capital or not is up to the people of Israel but it seems they are happy with that.

I'm sure the Israelis would respect the early Christian traditions that reside there too.

One off post.

Spot on.

Christian or not, if you would read the Bible, you come to the understanding that Israel is situated exactly upon the Old Testament's promised land. In fact, the promised land also includes Sinai, and the Suez Canal but the Israeli's handed those territories back to Egypt after the comprehensive victory of the 7 Day War (1967) when the Arabs were expecting to drive the Israelis into the Mediterranean but instead got their behinds handed to them on a platter and with a cherry on top.

Jerusalem as Israel's capital just seems oh so natural and right.


Christmas Greetings to all. 2018 years ago, a Jewish boy was born in Bethlehem. That's present day Israel too for those that don't know.

Welcome back Paphitis, pleased to se you post.

Regretably I find my self more in agreement with RH on this one but not totally: I thing it was a misguided move.

thank you STUD. I will not be here for much longer though.

It wasn't misguided. The move by Trump was 100% correct. Why you may ask.

Well, many people are arguing that Trump has destroyed any hope of the peace settlement. This is not true.

If you can show me an ounce of evidence whereby Hezbollah and Hamaz are actually interested in a peace settlement or 2 State solution, then I will agree with the above. However, the sad truth is, Hezbollah and Hamaz are not interested. Not even slightly interested.

The other thing is, Jerusalem is under Israeli Control. Splitting the city into 2 or 3 zones is absolutely ludicrous. It is sovereign territory of Israel. The Israelis have it as their Capital, then so be it. No one elses business really. The Palestinians in the Arab Quarter have a choice. They can either stay under Israeli control whereby they will have Israeli Citizenship, or they can move to West bank or even Jordan. It's not as if they are short of land. They have Israel completely surrounded.

But as for the West Bank, Israel must stop any further colonization and even destroy and relocate any settlers from the area. Israeli actions here are indeed deplorable.

Either way, it's all academic. Jerusalem is Israel's Capital since the Knesset is based there. Whether others accept it or not, is irrelevant as the Israelis are not prepared to be handing over a quarter of the city to entities like Hamaz which it regards as terrorists.

Who in their right mind is going to divide a city in halves or Quarters? is this a new Berlin they are trying to create, or another Nicosia? Why should Jerusalem be governed by anyone else or an International Administration? no that is not on. Would The Republic of Cyprus accept this for Nicosia? How about having Nicosia under UN control? Does this sound logical? is this what the Republic of Cyprus should expect in 48 years time after the invasion? because this is what the SJW elites believe should be the case in USA, Australia and EU. They before long will be telling Cyprus to get over it and split the city in 2. In fact they already have told the Republic, the bad thing is, the RoC is negotiating as a willing p[partner, something Israel is unwilling to do or accept for Jerusalem.

I am completely convinced now that Trump is actually proving to be a very interesting administration which seems to have broken many taboos not just about Jerusalem. He is stirring the pot and giving people what they want. He has gone against the establishment grain, the media and the cafe latte social justice warrior brigade and totally smashed political correctness.

Personally, he would have won my vote now. He deserves a second term unless he does something silly. Always a possibility but so far so good.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis:

Your understanding of the history of the region is at best thin! The Bible is a collection of fairy tails of unknown origin ,,,,, so don't put too much faith in it as a accurate record of events covered.

GIG:

Any land belongs to those that live there, their religion in that context is irrelevant. The problem with Trumps announcement is when it is spliced in with Netanyahu's Zionists demand that both the State of Israel and Jerusalem are the exclusive homeland of the Jews. The Jews have never asked for this and are in the main opposed to the Zionists. The Balfour declaration and UN resolutions make clear this was never the intent of awarding the Jews a homeland in Palestine. Jerusalem was deliberately excluded in the UN Partition proposal, which the Israeli's never stuck to, and made an international zone because then no single faith could claim jurisdiction.

I can be a Jew, so can you, because Judaism is a religion. The Ashkenazim of Eastern Europe (a warlike nation) adopted Judaism and the Talmud, and chose to become members of the Jewish faith some time around 1000AD(?). Zionism did not raise its head until the mid 1800's. The problem is with the latter! But that is a subject none of us know very much about so we have only opinions, based on what we think we know. 'If Americans Knew' is a fairly easy to understand website and gives the factual history of the region and the various conflicts ...... even if only used a reference.

IMO: The sensible solution is the UN declaration that 10% of the land mass forming Israel/Palestine should be an international zone that includes Jerusalem and that the State of Israel should be defined by the pre-1967 borders.

There are some good points here but I have to take Issue with your comments about the

Ashkenazim of Eastern Europe (a warlike nation) adopted Judaism and the Talmud, and chose to become members of the Jewish faith some time around 1000AD(?)

I think you are refering to the Khazar Hypothesis of the origin of the Ashkenasim, which is seemingly a 19th Century invention and where the genetic have seemingly found no substantive evidence of a Khazar origin among Ashkenazi Jews, abut rather evidence they have mixed Near Eastern/Mediterranean and Southern European origins.

The Ashkenasim were rather a community of jews settled in the Rhine which likely coalesced in to a definable community by the end of the 1st Millenia CE and who later moved east, rather than Khazars who allegedly converted at likely the same time and moved west.

Yes I fully agree. there is no Archeological or even DNA evidence that we know of that Jews are related to the Turkic Tribe of Khazar or the mass conversion event around 1000AD. However, it is believed that some Jews found refuge in Khazaria, and no doubt, even mixed with the Khazars. What is interesting about the Khazars, is that they formed a natural barrier between Europe and the Mongol Genghis Khan warlords. They literally saved Europe from Mongolian Turkic Conquest. The Khazars do have Turkic DNA which they probably picked up during decades of warfare with the Turkic Nomad Tribes from the east.

I have not been interested enough or even knowledgeable enough to look at the DNA markers of those who define themselves as Jewish. Perhaps yourself and Oracle can do the research and get back to us?

It is my belief that if someone were to look at their DNA markers, they will find markers similar to those found in the descendants of the Phoenicians and other early peoples which had lived around the Mediterranean, and the Levant in particular. They would have markers which are even closely related to Cypriots, Palestinians, German, Polish, and even Ukrainian and Russian.

The Ashkenasim are more closely related to Germans and Poles than anything else, but probably have rare markers which go as far back as the Phoenicians and Hebrews and so on, which kind of makes them our very distant cousins as well. They probably even mixed with some Turkic people too and have those markers, as do Cypriots, Serbians, and Greeks.

There is no such thing as a pure race, especially anywhere near the Middle East or Europe. You may find that the Jews and Palestinians might be a lot more closely related than they realize.

Either way, it is irrelevant. These Jews are claiming an attachment to The Holy land. Whether that is based on historical fact or not is not relevant. It is possible for anyone of us to convert to being a Jew. And we would then be claiming the same thing as well.

[Robin Hood]

The Palestinians have a more justified claim than the Israeli's do to Jerusalem and the much of occupied Palestine in general. However you look at it, much of the land has been acquired by Israel through acts of war. That is against International Law ...... but the US and Israel consider them selves to be exempt from them. It needs someone with clout to tell them otherwise.

What is really needed to sort this out is a United Nations with BALL's to put the US and Israel back into line with the rest of our society! Trumps latest speech indicates that is not going to happen whilst he is in the White House.

As for the Israeli Zionists claim to an undivided Jerusalem as their exclusive capital, the rest of the World disagrees even the US's staunchest allies. Incidentally so does the UNSC and the UNGA, the formers 14-0 result to rescind Trumps statement, was vetoed by the US.

So it seems that on this one it is US/Israel vs the rest of the World. Should prove to be interesting!

[Paphitis]

Well they don’t because Jerusalemos part of Israel proper. They have possession.

And as a religion they do not have a bigger claim than the Christians even who have a bigger claim.

[Kikapu]

I don't think Trump woke up one morning and decided to declare Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. Without getting into to whom Jerusalem belongs to as to who has the more religious rights to it, I believe there is a bigger reasons behind this movement by the US at this time in history. Who in their right mind would want to create such an uproar for nothing? Now that Syrian war is winding down with the US having planted itself there (along with Russia) with the help of the Kurds and no longer has needs for the bases in Turkey or Turkey's permission what it can and cannot do in the region by using those bases, I see many more conflicts starting deliberately in the region, and the Jerusalem issue will be the catalyst for future conflicts. Personally, I see Turkey in the cross-hairs of the USA as starters. All this will have a direct effect in what happens in Cyprus's future. Personally, I think this will benefit Cyprus and us Cypriots in the long run..

[Get Real!]

It appears that some of you see some level of “genius” in Trump’s abysmal foreign policy with respect to… well everything thus far!

For example:

* He has ignited the Palestinian conflict after a very long spell with little or no violence.

* He has revived N.Korea’s nuclear ambitions to the point where rocket man now has a blast once every month instead of once every two years.

* He has wrecked any chances of China cozying up to the US with his S.China Sea meddling.

* He has the Philippines (a former US bastion for decades) scrambling for new alliances.

* He has distanced Russia from the US even further by not even bothering to meet up with Putin, let alone everything else.

* He has distanced the US from the EU to the point where even timid Merkel is now talking about a "joint EU military"!

* In the last 24 hours he has foolishly threatened all nations who voted against the Jerusalem question.

The list of Trump’s blunders goes on and on…

To sum it up, all things point to a new era of US isolation and total subservience to Jewry/Israel.

Now whether such a direction is great for Cyprus or the planet in general, is extremely volatile to calculate with any level of accuracy and I wouldn’t hold my hopes very high…

[Paphitis]

He is a genius Get Real.

I really do like him. These are the things I like best about him.

He is anti establishment.
He is against the SJW and politically correct media.
He is draining the swamp.
He is saying things many people are thinking but are too scared to say.
He is treating North Korea as it should be treated. It’s only natural they ramp up their testing to try and show they have a deterrence because the US will wipe it off the map otherwise. North Korea is very lucky it had Obama previously, because it isn’t acceptable to have them as a Nuclear power and South Korea, Japan and Australia not.

The South East Asia Crisis has nothing to do with Trump. It is Japan, South Korea and Australia driving it under the UNCLOS. Without Japan, South Korea and Australia, the USA wouldn’t be involved at all. We are probably even paying the Yanks with weapon programs.
There was never ever a lull in the Palestinian question, just Trump facing reality over Jerusalem. It will not be under international administration or is it up for any negotiation. Jerusalem is the Capital city.
Philippines are still an ally and also involved in the South East China Sea overflights along with Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore.

Put in is actually shipping US arms to the RAAF. Weapons already unleashed against the Chinese. Funny that!

Trump is the bees knees mate. He is your kind of guy too. Trust me! He is a mini Get Real!

Best US President ever...so far I mean.

[Paphitis]

I don't think Trump woke up one morning and decided to declare Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. Without getting into to whom Jerusalem belongs to as to who has the more religious rights to it, I believe there is a bigger reasons behind this movement by the US at this time in history. Who in their right mind would want to create such an uproar for nothing? Now that Syrian war is winding down with the US having planted itself there (along with Russia) with the help of the Kurds and no longer has needs for the bases in Turkey or Turkey's permission what it can and cannot do in the region by using those bases, I see many more conflicts starting deliberately in the region, and the Jerusalem issue will be the catalyst for future conflicts. Personally, I see Turkey in the cross-hairs of the USA as starters. All this will have a direct effect in what happens in Cyprus's future. Personally, I think this will benefit Cyprus and us Cypriots in the long run..

I see Turkey in America sights too. They have given the Turks more than their fair share of chances.

You are right about the bases too. There are bases everywhere which are far more important than Turkey. There is Cyprus, Israel, Jordan, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar, Oman, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Take your pick!

And Cyprus and Israel are now close. And Trump has a Jewish Son In-law.