Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:
OK now we are talking.

And you appear to be listening!

So you admit now that Russia is just as guilty as Israel. That's a start.

Yes, as far as compliance with UNGA resolutions. I have explained why Russia has some issues with that and asked you for a similar link for Israel’s stance. You have not supplied that because you can’t ...... as they have nothing to support their claims.

The only thing I disagree with is that the USA holds the key to the United Nations. That isn't true. I bet they fund the biggest portion along with the EU and certain other Western Countries, but they don't have the key. Some western countries are even mocking the UN. USA is one of them. France and Australia as well are mocking the UN and there are calls to slash funding. Canada has had enough too. Britain and many EU countries as well. We know full well that the UN and the Security Council is flawed and corrupt too. It's not about enforcing International Law. So yes it would be better for the UN GA to be the higher authority by all means, but that will not suit China or Russia because I think you will find we would win many things with the only exception being Israel.

I don’t agree with you. The US dominates the UN using it’s allies and threats to smaller/weaker countries for their backing. One reason I believe the UNGA votes should be kept confidential. The US is the largest single contributor, I agree but I am afraid the rest of those you list come way down the list for contributors. The rest makes some sense although I think the US would be by far the most put out if such changes were implemented.

The 7 member UN Security Council members hold the key and Russia and China are a part of that.

There are 15 members of The UN Security Council and 5 are permanent members, each with a veto.

It's like the South China Sea Crisis. China is in direct violation of International Law. We know this, you know this, Cyprus knows this and we all friggin know it that China is taking the piss and is basically acting in a manner which violates the rights of virtually every neighboring country (Japan, South Korea, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia). It is also having an impact on vital trade routes important to Singapore, Australia and NZ.

I have not followed events in the South China Sea, but exactly why the US is so involved I cannot understand unless they really DO think they are the worlds policeman!

And yet China will not allow anything through the Security Council. We will get a UN GA resolution no problems at all, and virtually every single country will support our claim except for China and Turkey (do you see a recurring theme here?). Turkey does not agree with UNCLOS. The flies are always attracted to the shit!

I can’t comment.

So, our ships will traverse the South China Sea and our planes will conduct overflights. We believe it is our right to protect Freedom of navigation through these International Waters and through International Airspace. If China does anything to our aircraft or Ships, they will be committing an act of war, and they have been told as much.

I have not seen any reports that say China is restricting passage to international shipping. Is it not the US that is blockading Nth.Korea, and Israel that is blockading Gaza, and the US and Saudi that is blockading Yemen? Who exactly is the Worlds ‘pirate’ here?

The other issue I do not agree with is that I am certain the USA, France, Britain, Russia and China will not appreciate being the world cop sorting everyone's issues and fighting everyone else's wars for them. So they will not enforce all UN GA resolutions but merely only those that suit them and their interests. Otherwise, they would be involved in about a dozen civil wars in Africa and I don't think they would want to send their soldiers into those conflicts unless there was something to gain such as oil or diamonds. Who is going to pay for all that?

You misunderstood what I was trying to say.(My fault) I was trying to suggest that the UNSC should be responsible for managing the UN’s resources, military and civilian, so that there was less chance of all this aid going into some dictators pockets or, a member of the UN acting independently to interfere in someone else’s conflict for their own interests!

I think you will find that there is no perfect system. I am all for UN GA. USA might be all for it too. The West has the least to lose. But the Russians and Chinese will never allow it because they would lose South China Sea, Crimea, South Ossetia, Syria (war crimes) whilst we can only expect to fall offside with regard to Israel.

I agree ..... nothing is perfect but the UN is spectacularly imperfect! Then you go and spoil it by blowing your anti-Putin/Assad trumpet.

I disagree that Russia/China would lose anything as Sth. Ossetia like Crimea, is a disputed region. The war in Syria has been a legitimate war against foreign inspired, supported and armed terrorists and Russia’s legal intervention was by invitation of the elected government. As for Syrian (Assad) war crimes; once again there is no proof from independent sources, the stories have ALL come from the anti-Assad terrorists and there have been very few if any direct and independent investigations, so these stories have no credibility.

It comes back once again to the rule of Law. If Assad were to be put on trial for war crimes there would be many, many of your allies and partners in various crimes against humanity to war crimes, in front of him........ far too many to list.

Israel alone would need its own Court as their crimes are so numerous and date back to the end of WWII before there even was a State of Israel, to the present day and are added to on a daily basis!

[Paphitis]

I thought it was you that was listening. Too bad I was wrong. This will be my final reply to you as this is going nowhere and I am not going to waste anymore time with you. I am literally a very busy person, and I travel a lot and am friggin fatigued and have irregular sleep patterns as it is. The last thing I need is to be arguing with unreasonable people.

I am glad however that you now comprehend that Russia itself, has similar legal issues to Israel - illegal annexation of territories not belonging to them. I don't know why you ask for Israel's stance, but the funny thing is that Israel probably doesn't have a stance against Russia with regards to Crimea because it does not want to draw attention to itself regarding Palestine. That is if I have caught your drift because it appears that you and I are on different wavelengths.

I have a very pragmatic approach however. You see, I don't particularly bother with the law unless it suits my interests and I admit that. In fact my attitude is pretty much the norm as far as all these countries are concerned - USA, Russia, Israel, Turkey, China and my very own Australia. They don't really give a damn about legalities unless they have something to gain. They would be more than happy to defy International law if they have to and they have all done so in the past.

But naturally, none of them feel they dominate the UN. There is no such thing because of the right of veto in the UN Security Council. All these countries you accuse to hold the key actually think its a huge joke. Have you heard the US Ambassador to the UN? She is doing a fantastic job at telling it the way it is and I actually enjoy her speeches because they really do give it to the UN at times and many countries agree with her.

One of the reasons I support the Israeli's is this. They are a beacon of light in the Middle East. The only democracy in the area. I also like some other countries like UAE, but Israel is miles ahead of the pack and I want them to stay where they are. they are a great little buffer for all of us.

As for the South China Sea. Yes China is restricting Freedom of navigation through what is legally International Seas and Airspace which it now is claiming as sovereign Territorial Seas and Airspace due to the construction of false island atolls and it is using these atolls to set its EEZ further afield and annex the EEZ of Vietnam, Thailand, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia and Philippines.

In effect, China's actions are already an act of war. So our response is to send naval Ships and Military Aircraft into these contested areas in support of Freedom of Navigation. Our Ships and Aircraft (P8) have been contacted on several occasions by Chinese military and threatened to leave the area or else. The response from our Ships and Aircraft is a standard one or statement response identifying themselves as a Ship or an Aircraft from country x Navy or Air Force and that they are in International High Seas or Airspace. They remind them that their presence is lawful under UNCLOS and that any attempt to interfere with there safety is a violation of International law and will be seen as an act of aggression by China or an act of war. So far, as far as I can tell, the Chinese have not pressed the matter any further but they have moved Air Defence Missiles into the area.

There are many countries acting in this area to support Freedom of Navigation and at the front are Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines and Singapore. They are supported by Australia and New Zealand units who claim vital trade sea passages through the area and under the terms of the ANZUS and SATO Treaties. USA is involved because they don't like the Chinese too much and to tamper with their influence in the region.

But they are also there as per the Articles of The South Asia Treaty Organisation (SATO). France is also a signatory to SATO and are also present with an Aircraft Carrier. SATO is the Asian NATO. Same as ANSUS and the South Korean Defence Pact which also involves NATO and Australia.

The USA is also involved as per the Articles of the the ANZUS Treaty. These are 2 treaties which actually mandate for US involvement.

So since we have gone back to making it up as we go along, Israel has nothing to answer for. They can keep what they have. They do not need to or are expected to negotiate with Hamaz or Hezbollah. These are classified as terrorist organizations and Israel actually has a right to defend itself. People can jump up and down about it all, and yes the settlements are in actual fact illegal, but right now there is zero chance of any settlement because all parties are playing for all or nothing.

The only fair thing if we were all fair dinkum (which I admit I am not) about enforcing International law, is to abolish the Security Council and focus on the decisions of the UN GA on a majority basis. If that were the case, Israel would find itself in a spot of bother, but so would Russia, China and Syria. Yes sure, we would lose as far as Israel is concerned. But Russia and China have far more to lose than we do. Which is why they want the Status Quo to continue. The West isn't in favour of the Status Quo so much. We would love to see UN reform. Why would we want reform if we hold the keys?

In addition, the USA doesn't threaten anyone. It has allies and many friends around the globe. My country is one of its closest. In fact they call us the 53rd US State. We do have a very special relationship with them. We have never been threatened or felt threatened by them. On the contrary, we feel the warmth of this relationship and the relationship offers us great security at all levels. No one is forced to do anything. The relationship is based on mutual understanding and respect. The clearest example is Turkey which is being pushed towards Russia more and more. USA lets Turkey do what it wants, but yeh sure, one day they will pay for the bride.

So we are back to making it up as we go along. This has been the way it has always been. It leaves the Palestinians in a very difficult position as well.

Last response. You've wasted enough of my valuable time.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

I have a very pragmatic approach however. You see, I don't particularly bother with the law unless it suits my interests and I admit that. In fact my attitude is pretty much the norm as far as all these countries are concerned - USA, Russia, Israel, Turkey, China and my very own Australia. They don't really give a damn about legalities unless they have something to gain. They would be more than happy to defy International law if they have to and they have all done so in the past.

Say no more! I don’t think you know what pragmatism is?

Spoken like a true Cypriot! The law only applies to other people! But you bitch and moan when others apply the law and abide by it ..... and it inconveniences you. Now I know just why you are the way you are when it comes to the US ....... and why you have a down on Russia!

The arrogance of the ‘exceptional and indispensable nation’ has lost them the respect they once had, at least for a few years after WWII. Now, their total disregard for anyone or anything else has pissed the rest of the World right off and the same has happened with ‘God’s chosen people’ along with them. You are now looking at the new reality as the shortest Empire in history collapses and the new ‘kids –on-the-block’ take over.

In addition, the USA doesn't threaten anyone.

Are you honestly serious? You actually believe that? You are a friggin nut case ..... and to think they let you fly aeroplanes ...... do you have the same disregard for the law of the air?

Just to prove what absolute crap you spew out: This article, on poll results!

In 2013, 24% of the people in 65 countries polled, named the US as the greatest threat. It was so embarrassing another poll changed the questions and got much better results in 2017 by asking which of three countries were the greatest threat to world peace and the vote was roughly split equally between US/Russia/China.......... then it turns out they only asked the questions in US friendly countries or those of US allies ....... and the US still came top of the list.

Quote:
Which country is the biggest threat to peace?» The way that WIN/Gallup International itself had actually asked this open-ended question, to 67,806 respondents from 65 countries, was: «Which country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today?» #1, 24% of respondents, worldwide, volunteered that the US was «the greatest threat». #2 (the second-most-frequently volunteered ‘greatest threat’) was Pakistan, volunteered by 8%. #3 was China, with 6%. #s 4-7 were a four-way tie, at 5% each, for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, and North Korea. #s 8-10 were a three-way tie, at 4% each, for: India, Iraq, and Japan. #11 was Syria, with 3%. #12 was Russia with 2%., #s 13-20 were a seven-way tie, at 1% each, for: Australia, Germany, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Korea, and UK.

Perhaps people around the world are noticing that, at least since 2001, the US is wrecking one country after another: Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and Ukraine. Which is next? Maybe Iran? Maybe Russia? Maybe Venezuela? Who knows?
And this country (US) has just increased its ‘defense’ spending, which already is three times China’s, and nine times higher than Russia’s. Do the owners of America’s military-industrial complex own the US government, and own the US ‘news’ media, to permit this rabid military to control the government’s budget, in a ‘democracy’?

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... today.html

Mate ..... you live in a different Universe to the rest of us! Thank you so much ........ “ In addition, the USA doesn't threaten anyone.” ...........that was the best laugh I have had for many a long day!

[Paphitis]

Yes I honestly believe that the USA does not threaten any country at all very lightly.

Like all other Western nations, they build relationships based on mutual respect and trust. I do not see 24% of people naming the USA as the greatest threat. It would depend on how that question was asked, because you can ask the question whereby 99% of people will vote the USA as of vital importance to international peace and security.

I tried to tell you that you can't be a hypocrite and advocate international law in regards to Israel and not for Russia or Syria. That is the only way you can defeat my pragmatic approach and defeat my argument.

You can only defeat my argument by equally applying International Law to Russia, Syria and China. You do not do that at all. As such, you don't have a leg to stand on. You make it up as you go along.

As such, Israel can just do what Russia does. Annex whatever it likes with our support and be the beacon of light in Middle East. No one is going to do anything about it. Israel is even free to annex more land as well as the precedence has been set.

Mate, you had your chance. I told you that my argument is quite flawed as far as International law is concerned. The difference between you and I is that I am upfront whereas you pretend to uphold International law but do not apply it equally to Russia or Syria.

Therefore, Israel is all good in my book. I support Israel because I believe Israel is vitally important to my Countries interests. And that country in this instance is Cyprus. Israel and Cyprus as you can see, are very good friends now. Israel is also a great ally to Australia and Australia played an instrumental role to bring about the Balfour Declaration. Hence I support Israel. I am very simple that way. "The enemy of my enemy is now my friend"

In fact, Britain and Australia practically instigated the entire Zionist State from 1918. And we lost thousands of soldiers in doing so. And one of the biggest reasons we did that was so that Jerusalem does not fall under Islamic Rule. We fought the Ottomans over it and defeated them. We are not actually very prepared to let them get a foothold in Jerusalem again. This is the most fought after city on the planet. We bought the Ottoman Empire down to its knees.

I am more than happy to see even further military cooperation between Cyprus and Israel.

I think we have said as much as we can about this. There is no need for the 2 of us to be communicating with each other ever again.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

Yes I honestly believe that the USA does not threaten any country at all very lightly.

That sentence does not make sense! So nothings changed then ?

Like all other Western nations, they build relationships based on mutual respect and trust. I do not see 24% of people naming the USA as the greatest threat. It would depend on how that question was asked, because you can ask the question whereby 99% of people will vote the USA as of vital importance to international peace and security.

You are about as thick as two short planks!!!! The article showed that that was exactly what they did second time round they changed the questions. But that detail missed you completely and so did the fact they were still voted the greatest threat to World peace by their allies and friends!

I tried to tell you that you can't be a hypocrite and advocate international law in regards to Israel and not for Russia or Syria. That is the only way you can defeat my pragmatic approach and defeat my argument.

Are you talking to me? You don’t recognise any law ..... you have said so. I do respect the Law and so does Putin! He demonstrated that continually in Syria.

You can only defeat my argument by equally applying International Law to Russia, Syria and China. You do not do that at all. As such, you don't have a leg to stand on. You make it up as you go along.

You don't have an argument only a delusion of self importance! But you and all the US allies would lose horribly if they had to comply with International Laws and conventions. That is why they regard themselves (and of course their hangers on like Australia and the UK) ..... as being an ‘EXCEPTION’ that is an exception to anything they don’t like and that also applies to International Law. The Law is only applied to those that oppose US hegemony and the march of the US Empire ...... which is beginning to grind to a standstill.

As such, Israel can just do what Russia does. Annex whatever it likes with our support and be the beacon of light in Middle East. No one is going to do anything about it. Israel is even free to annex more land as well as the precedence has been set.

But Russia does not occupy other peoples land through acts of war. That is the MO of the US and their allies! You and your allies spread death and destruction and have done so since the end of WWII. Because you are part of an Empire that is in decay and is desperate!

Mate, you had your chance. I told you that my argument is quite flawed as far as International law is concerned. The difference between you and I is that I am upfront whereas you pretend to uphold International law but do not apply it equally to Russia or Syria.

Keep convincing yourself of that. Remember it is the pantomime season .......’He’s behind you!’ ....... Putin that is! You should watch ‘Jack and the Beanstalk’...... do they do pantomimes in Australia? One small boy, duped by a smooth talking trader to part with his money for a handful of beans, took an axe and bought down the mighty Giant and that is the fate that faces the US.

I believe that the US's destruction will come mainly from within and will be through economic destruction. Hopefully they won’t resort to Nuclear Weapons when their backs are to the wall.

Therefore, Israel is all good in my book. I support Israel because I believe Israel is vitally important to my Countries interests. And that country in this instance is Cyprus. Israel and Cyprus as you can see, are very good friends now. Israel is also a great ally to Australia and Australia played an instrumental role to bring about the Balfour Declaration. Hence I support Israel. I am very simple that way. "The enemy of my enemy is now my friend"

You are in a rapid diminishing minority, but are not bright enough to see it. Just like you were with Syria? All the bluster and boasting came to nothing ........ you lost and Assad and Putin won ..... as I predicted. You have said exactly how you regard compliance with the law........ it does not apply to you/yours and that also applies to any war mongering nation you support. So now you want to take the credit on behalf of Australia for the Balfour Declaration? Truly incredible ......... illusions of Grandeur spring to mind.

In fact, Britain and Australia practically instigated the entire Zionist State from 1918. And we lost thousands of soldiers in doing so. And one of the biggest reasons we did that was so that Jerusalem does not fall under Islamic Rule. We fought the Ottomans over it and defeated them. We are not actually very prepared to let them get a foothold in Jerusalem again. This is the most fought after city on the planet. We bought the Ottoman Empire down to its knees.

Well done ..... how many thousands of brave and patriotic Australians did you lose fighting for the British Empire and the Zionists? The sad thing is that they didn’t know what they were fighting for then and still don’t to this day.

I am more than happy to see even further military cooperation between Cyprus and Israel.

The second Cyprus is of no further use, as you have pointed out, the Israeli’s will dump them and take just what they want. You might even see them do a deal with the Turks that is more in their interests, because Turkey is the shortest and therefore cheapest route to Europe, and will invade the Island to protect their interests. Then what will the Cypriots do ......... ask Putin to bail them out, because the EU and the US won’t!

I think we have said as much as we can about this. There is no need for the 2 of us to be communicating with each other ever again.

What a shame ...... now where will I go to get my entertainment? Just like the ‘Syria’ thread and the thread on ‘Money Creation’, when you can’t brow beat me with your stupid, unsupported, even irrational arguments .......... you bail out. What a sad person you are.

[Paphitis]

Well there we have it folks.

Aside from all the obvious vitriol, Robin Hoodwinked looks forward to the day when Israel comes to the realization that Turkey is the easier and cheapest route for its Gas. Just so that he can so “told you so” and isolate Cyprus from powerful allies like Israel, and by default, so many other Western Powers.

How dare Cyprus play a vital Geostrategic Role in the Mediterranean when it does not further Russian interests through Turkey.

Well here is one for Pyro and all the other doubters.

Israel likes Cyprus more than Turkey and that has ALWAYS been the case. Even when it didn’t seems so, deep down, the Israelis always knew.

In fact, USA, Australia, BRITAIN and everyone else likes Cyprus and Greece more than Turkey. That has ALWAYS been the case. Even when it has not always been obvious to us through dictated interests and realities.

What has stuffed things up for us is the fact we are tiny and insignificant in trade, investment and in military terms compared to Turkey.

But other than that, Cyprus is in the good books and Turkey not so much. They are falling out of favor. Probably not enough to do anything about Cyprus just yet but none of us know what the future holds.

Today, the YPG are being armed by Coalition nations. This would be unheard of a few years ago as they would side with Turkey. Well that is not the case anymore so in effect Turkey is already being punished and they are hitting back by getting friendly with Russia. This has yet to be responded to but there will be a response one way or another.

I have a Cypriot friend who ran in to George Bush Senior at the UN. He told him, “ we love you guys. We love what you do and will always be your friends. But the USA will always look after its interests and Turkey is far too important and too big”

That was in the context of the 90s. Things have changed today.

Now, the pipeline isn’t about money. Spending a few Billion more to have the pipeline go through Cyprus and Greece is a very small price to pay especially when the resources are more than a Trillion USD. Israel does not trust Turkey as much as it can trust Cyprus and Greece. That is the commonly held consensus.

Britain and Australia lost thousands of Troops fighting the Turks (Ottomans) so we know what they are like. We knew we were destroying the Ottoman Empire back then and dismantling them bit by bit and it started off in Gallipoli and ended in Jerusalem. We knew we were bringing an evil empire to a climax and we had sown the seed for the formation of Israel in the Middle East. That has proven to be insightful. Between us, we must have lost about 80,000 soldiers and had a further 150,000 casualties. That is equivalent to the population of Nicosia. Oh and who was the person in charge of the Western Front against the Germans? One of the most notorious and famous Zionists of all time. Turkey as a matter of fact is lucky because there were plans for the capture of Istanbul as well but the allies had botched it up in the Dardanelles and Gallipoli.

The rest is history.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis;

Well there we have it folks.

Aside from all the obvious vitriol, Robin Hoodwinked looks forward to the day when Israel comes to the realization that Turkey is the easier and cheapest route for its Gas. Just so that he can so “told you so” and isolate Cyprus from powerful allies like Israel, and by default, so many other Western Powers.

How dare Cyprus play a vital Geostrategic Role in the Mediterranean when it does not further Russian interests through Turkey.

Yes .....there you have it 'folks' ...... a wonderful example as to how fake news starts by distortion of facts and then embellishment to create a fake story! Paphitis, nobody but you could read what I said and come up with such a stupid and illiterate response.

Mind you ...... Trump and Netanyahu are quite close behind you at distorting facts to suit their agenda ! They both spew lies and distorted rubbish, just like you do! Or maybe it is YOU that is advising them?

I thought you were not speaking to me anymore?

[yialousa1971]

But how related are the people of the 12 tribes of Israel with the people of modern day Israel? A lot of them don't even look middle eastern, they look like Slavs or even Africans... because they are Slavs and Africans! There is also a question about Palestinians... sure there were no Muslims 4000 years ago, but this doesn't mean that the ancestors of Palestinians did not inhabit the area since then. There were no Christians 4000 years ago either, this doesn't mean that because Cypriots today are Christians, that Cypriots didn't exist 4000 years ago. Also, you shouldn't take Bible literally. All mythologies have lots of exaggerations to say the least. Obviously the Jews would write their own mythology in a way that suited them.

Jews (Israelis) are in fact what you would call Crypto Christians themselves. Most of them (apart from Orthodox Jews) or the right wing elements acknowledged Jesus Christ as The Messiah and that their people made a huge mistake 2000 years ago.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard for a while! If they believed they made a mistake then they would just convert to Christianity! What is the point of being a Jew if you believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

Study this my apprentice.

[yialousa1971]

This situation created by Trumps statement has absolutely nothing to do with Religion. it is 100% a political move!

The Jews have always had a religious presence in Jerusalem as have the Christians and Muslims. The problem arises when the Zionists declared they would make it their EXCLUSIVE capital, even those who are genuine Jews but not Zionists do not agree with that. Once you learn the difference between the religion of Judaism and the political entity of Zionism, you can only then understand what is going on in the Middle East.

The Zionists have almost total control over the US through their ownership of Wall Street, the Banks and other financial institutions, the media and the large corporations. They are the largest single lobby in the US Senate, with the arms and pharmaceutical lobbies being second. Their intervention in US politics and US elections is undeniable. The US is the only country that has much of its foreign policy dictated by another state. Check it out!

The problem is Zionism NOT Judaism. Jews, Christians and Muslims in the area have lived together for centuries it was only when Zionists used Judaism as their platform around 1840 (as they do today with the holocaust) that the trouble starts. Trump has made a political decision not a religious one and any Jew who is not a Zionist will tell him that.

A situation of joint custody of the Holy City of Jerusalem by the three religions has existed for centuries. Attitudes only began to change with the Zionists demands for an exclusive Jewish homeland in Palestine with an undivided Jerusalem as their capital and that has bred the violence. The Trump recognition of their illegal claim to Jerusalem as their exclusive capital city has just added fuel to the fire.

With his stupid declaration to appease Netanyahu and his Zionist supporters Trump has lit the fuse to a powder keg and we could ALL regret the outcome.


Paphitis:

Welcome back to the fray, or is it just temporary? I didn’t realise you were an expert on Theology, I am impressed .......... personally I have no time for any organised religion.

The problem is Zionism NOT Judaism.

The real Robin Hood doesn’t agree with you.

http://www.oxfordjewishheritage.co.uk/e ... h-heritage

[yialousa1971]

Paphitis:

Your understanding of the history of the region is at best thin! The Bible is a collection of fairy tails of unknown origin ,,,,, so don't put too much faith in it as a accurate record of events covered.

GIG:

Any land belongs to those that live there, their religion in that context is irrelevant. The problem with Trumps announcement is when it is spliced in with Netanyahu's Zionists demand that both the State of Israel and Jerusalem are the exclusive homeland of the Jews. The Jews have never asked for this and are in the main opposed to the Zionists. The Balfour declaration and UN resolutions make clear this was never the intent of awarding the Jews a homeland in Palestine. Jerusalem was deliberately excluded in the UN Partition proposal, which the Israeli's never stuck to, and made an international zone because then no single faith could claim jurisdiction.

I can be a Jew, so can you, because Judaism is a religion. The Ashkenazim of Eastern Europe (a warlike nation) adopted Judaism and the Talmud, and chose to become members of the Jewish faith some time around 1000AD(?). Zionism did not raise its head until the mid 1800's. The problem is with the latter! But that is a subject none of us know very much about so we have only opinions, based on what we think we know. 'If Americans Knew' is a fairly easy to understand website and gives the factual history of the region and the various conflicts ...... even if only used a reference.

IMO: The sensible solution is the UN declaration that 10% of the land mass forming Israel/Palestine should be an international zone that includes Jerusalem and that the State of Israel should be defined by the pre-1967 borders.

There are some good points here but I have to take Issue with your comments about the

Ashkenazim of Eastern Europe (a warlike nation) adopted Judaism and the Talmud, and chose to become members of the Jewish faith some time around 1000AD(?)

I think you are refering to the Khazar Hypothesis of the origin of the Ashkenasim, which is seemingly a 19th Century invention and where the genetic have seemingly found no substantive evidence of a Khazar origin among Ashkenazi Jews, abut rather evidence they have mixed Near Eastern/Mediterranean and Southern European origins.

The Ashkenasim were rather a community of jews settled in the Rhine which likely coalesced in to a definable community by the end of the 1st Millenia CE and who later moved east, rather than Khazars who allegedly converted at likely the same time and moved west.

I will deal with you later Barkley.