Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Now its time to move on.

Moving on involves (1) you returning to your Anatolian roots, (2) other foreigners like Sotos returning to their Balkan roots, and us native Cypriots reclaiming and getting on with life on our island.

That’s the only way we can MOVE-ON because anything outside of that is not a move-on but a status quo.

[supporttheunderdog]

So.......... do you have anything to say about the post itself?

Ok well, I don’t agree with a loosely federated Cyprus because I’m a native Cypriot who has inherited the entire island through my ancestors who have been here since at least 12,000BC; according to archaeological finds, so for me it would be impossible to disrespect my ancestors by gifting half the island to those that butchered them for 400+ years.

The people we call “TCs” are in fact Ottoman remnants who’s forefathers came here uninvited from 1571 onward, violating *my* forefathers, murdering, raping and pillaging all that they had so it’s very hard for me to have any positive feeling for them or to desire any kind of unison with them. I hope you understand.

The science suggests otherwise
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179474

[Get Real!]

So.......... do you have anything to say about the post itself?

Ok well, I don’t agree with a loosely federated Cyprus because I’m a native Cypriot who has inherited the entire island through my ancestors who have been here since at least 12,000BC; according to archaeological finds, so for me it would be impossible to disrespect my ancestors by gifting half the island to those that butchered them for 400+ years.

The people we call “TCs” are in fact Ottoman remnants who’s forefathers came here uninvited from 1571 onward, violating *my* forefathers, murdering, raping and pillaging all that they had so it’s very hard for me to have any positive feeling for them or to desire any kind of unison with them. I hope you understand.

The science suggests otherwise
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179474

???

A link is never an argument so either get more specific or forget about it.

[supporttheunderdog]

Two comments which are unlikely to make a blind bit of difference to the problem:

1. Most if not all "Turkish" people, those in Turkey and Cyprus, are descended almost entirely from ancient Greeks, the distinction merely being that at some stage in their ancestry they took up the Turkish language and converted to Islam, even if later down the line their ancestors rejected it.

2. According to the ancient Greeks, Asia starts east of the Bosphorus, thus Cypriots are Asian. This is as true as the fact that "Europe" is a Greek word.

Make of it what you will. Freedom for Cyprus.

you will find most Cypriots can likely trace most of their ancestry back to the earliest permanent settlers , which was long before there was anything Greek about Greece, let a alone before any movement of people from Greece to Cyprus,

https://investigativegenetics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13323-016-0032-8

You are however correct that most Turkish speaking Cypriots are Cypriots who took up the Turkish Language and Islam

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179474

[supporttheunderdog]

So.......... do you have anything to say about the post itself?

Ok well, I don’t agree with a loosely federated Cyprus because I’m a native Cypriot who has inherited the entire island through my ancestors who have been here since at least 12,000BC; according to archaeological finds, so for me it would be impossible to disrespect my ancestors by gifting half the island to those that butchered them for 400+ years.

The people we call “TCs” are in fact Ottoman remnants who’s forefathers came here uninvited from 1571 onward, violating *my* forefathers, murdering, raping and pillaging all that they had so it’s very hard for me to have any positive feeling for them or to desire any kind of unison with them. I hope you understand.

The science suggests otherwise
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179474

???

A link is never an argument so either get more specific or forget about it.

the Genetic Science studies by Cypriot Scientists suggest that rather than being Ottoman Remnants who came over in 1571 and later, the majority of Turkish Speaking Cypriots likely share the same ancestry as you. These are largely the same Cypriot scientists who's research supports your own theories of ancient Cypriot ancestry, but then these peoples too likely came from what is now called Turkey...

[Get Real!]

the Genetic Science studies by Cypriot Scientists suggest that rather than being Ottoman Remnants who came over in 1571 and later, the majority of Turkish Speaking Cypriots likely share the same ancestry as you. These are largely the same Cypriot scientists who's research supports your own theories of ancient Cypriot ancestry, but then these peoples too likely came from what is now called Turkey...

You can tell those scientists that they are 400+ years of Ottoman rapes too late to take such measurements with any level of accuracy, unfortunately.

What’s important TODAY; under the circumstances, is who you are ALIGNED with so if you are Turkish-leaning then chances are you have Anatolian origins, if you are Greece-leaning then chances are you’re a Balkan, and if you cannot associate with either of these two then you are most likely the real deal.

That's the best measurement we've got today under the circumstances.

[supporttheunderdog]

the Genetic Science studies by Cypriot Scientists suggest that rather than being Ottoman Remnants who came over in 1571 and later, the majority of Turkish Speaking Cypriots likely share the same ancestry as you. These are largely the same Cypriot scientists who's research supports your own theories of ancient Cypriot ancestry, but then these peoples too likely came from what is now called Turkey...

You can tell those scientists that they are 400+ years of Ottoman rapes too late to take such measurements with any level of accuracy, unfortunately.

What’s important TODAY; under the circumstances, is who you are ALIGNED with so if you are Turkish-leaning then chances are you have Anatolian origins, if you are Greece-leaning then chances are you’re a Balkan, and if you cannot associate with either of these two then you are most likely the real deal.

That's the best measurement we've got today under the circumstances.

not convinced...and it is not a measurement but for some reflects propaganda passed off as education - .

see

Y-chromosome phylogeographic analysis of the Greek-Cypriot population reveals elements consistent with Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements

Analyses of Cypriot haplogroup data are consistent with two stages of prehistoric settlement. E-V13 and E-M34 are widespread, and PCA suggests sourcing them to the Balkans and Levant/Anatolia, respectively. The persistent pre-Greek component is represented by elements of G2-U5(xL30) haplogroups: U5*, PF3147, and L293. J2b-M205 may contribute also to the pre-Greek strata. The majority of R1b-Z2105 lineages occur in both the westernmost and easternmost districts. Distinctively, sub-haplogroup R1b- M589 occurs only in the east. The absence of R1b- M589 lineages in Crete and the Balkans and the presence in Asia Minor are compatible with Late Bronze Age influences from Anatolia rather than from Mycenaean Greeks.

and

The pattern of structural variation in Cyprus points towards a model comprising two stages of expansion: an earlier expansion of G2a-P15, J2a-M67, and R1b-M269 (range, 11,600–13,800 y BP with a slow YSTR mutation rate ω; 3800–4500 BP with a fast ω), subsequently followed later by the expansion of E-V13, I2-M423, and J2b-M12 (slow ω, 4400–6600 y BP; fast ω 1500–4500 y BP) (Table 3). However, times of divergence of these lineages from current Anatolian, Danubian, Greek, and Levantine Y-STRs appeared more recent. Pre-historical divergence was observed for Cypriot G-P15 with Greece (3600 y BP), I2-M423 with Anatolia (4200 y BP) and Levant (9400 y BP) and J2b-M12 with Danube Balkans (3,500 y BP) and Levant (5100 y BP). Divergence of E-V13, J2a-M67, and R1b-M269 would have taken place in modern times (range, 300–2.200 y BP).

[Get Real!]

I suggest Cypriots take the following 3 trips:

Go to Athens and spend a day there… how do you feel?

Go to Ankara and spend a day there… how do you feel?

Go to Beirut and spend a day there… how do you feel?

Although I never took a trip to Turkey, for me Beirut is where I felt at home outside of Cyprus.

I knew there and then that I was a Levantine for my heart told me so and not somebody’s book.

[Get Real!]

The absence of R1b- M589 lineages in Crete and the Balkans and the presence in Asia Minor are compatible with Late Bronze Age influences from Anatolia rather than from Mycenaean Greeks.

Mycenaean Greeks are nothing but a very expensive fairy-tale that destroyed Cyprus.

[supporttheunderdog]

I suggest Cypriots take the following 3 trips:

Go to Athens and spend a day there… how do you feel?

Go to Ankara and spend a day there… how do you feel?

Go to Beirut and spend a day there… how do you feel?

Although I never took a trip to Turkey, for me Beirut is where I felt at home outside of Cyprus.

I knew there and then that I was a Levantine for my heart told me so and not somebody’s book.

I have no intention of questioning your feelings - they are yours and yours alone - they do not however change who someone's ancestors may or may not have been or where in the dim and distant past they came from.