Cyprus-Forum.com

[MrH]

Watch out for the News on Turkey's Plan B for Cyprus!

[B25]

Unfortunately B52 you have not read it properly. What I wrote above is Fact my good friend. What I said on the ATCA forum in 2004 has happened today as I know first hand how Turkey and the UK play Cyprus like a pendulum. It's your choice my friend but don't complain when Turkey declares a referendum in the TRNC for it to work as an official province of Turkey until a comprehensive agreement is signed, which will be never, and Famagusta and a Ercan ports are officially designated as ports of Turkey!

Referendum that's a bit of a moot point isn't it?? Ship over 300,000 illegals that out number the 50,000 TCs, and do a referendum, erm, let me see, which way are they going to vote. Seriously, a referendum, Erdocunt doesn't listen to anyone he will do what he wants.

I have no problem for a sensible viable solution, but your demands are just plain ludicrous and totally unacceptable to us.

So, I guess my friend, you will do just what you have to do and we shall worry about our bit by ourselves. Rather a master of 67% of the homeland than a slave of 100% to Turkey.

Hopefully, Turkey will accidentally shot down some US or French plane or navel vessell then we'll see the shit hit the fan. Erdocunts blustering is just for internal consumption, his threats are empty and he and everyone else know this, except for the sheep in Turkey that think the sun sun shines from his ass!

As for the crossing points, we shall see.

[Sotos]

MrH, first of all it doesn't make a difference to us if those who occupy the north are TCs (mostly Settlers by now) or Turkey... keep this mind while I explain the rest. The "Plan A" of Turkey is to control the whole of Cyprus via some unstable federal structure where the two sides will never be truly united but will remain two opposing, antagonistic sides so that Turkey will be able to continue to use its divide and rule practices to control Cyprus. If the "Plan A" of Turkey fails (and it will fail because we are not so stupid to make the whole of Cyprus a puppet of Turkey) then the "Plan B" of Turkey is to gradually incorporate the north into its own territory. Turkey does NOT want an independent TC state, especially one which would join EU while Turkey stays out (and Turkey will never join EU). As you admitted TCs have no power, so with whom would we negotiate a deal where we offer recognition in return for land? We would be essentially negotiating with a puppet of Erdogan (if his name is Akinci, Talat or Eroglu makes little difference) and since Turkey does not want an independent TC state then such negotiations will fail like all other, since your side (i.e. Erdogan) will intentionally not offer enough land to make such deal enticing for us. Therefore forget the case of an independent TC state. It will not happen because neither RoC nor Turkey want this. Also forget the kind of BBF you were dreaming, it is not going to happen either. If you want BBF you have to compromise on several levels to make such deal acceptable to us, but your side will not make such compromises because Turkey will not agree to have a normal federal Cyprus which Turkey can't control. So what will happen is that the status quo will continue. If the balance of power changes then we can reclaim our land without any agreement (it is legally ours). If not then at some point we will just settle with Turkey (not with TCs, because TCs would have rendered themselves totally irrelevant by then), Turkey will give some land back and we will recognize the rest as a district of Turkey. IF you still have one last change to be relevant, that one last chance is now, but you will need a true leader, not another puppet of Turkey. If you produce a leader that can negotiate independently then you can have a TC component state within EU in a BBF acceptable to us, OR you can offer to return a very significant percentage of land in exchange for recognition which could entice us to accept such offer. Otherwise your community will very soon cease to exist.

[MrH]

Sotos, I will read this on the train my good man and respond later. I just wanted to say thank you for writing a long and detailed answer. Even though our views may be different, it's still nice to read your views and mindset.

[Kikapu]

MrH, your whole intent is to get the "trnc" not only to get recognized, which by itself has very little value to the north and to Turkey, and zero value to the RoC while we are at it, but the main objective is to get the "trnc" into the EU after recognition. First of all, TCs are always complaining how they do not trust the EU, and now you want the north to become a member of the EU? What I'm I missing here? In any case, your whole purpose is to get the north into the EU as a recognized state just so to let Turkey control the EU through the puppet north and it's leaders. Nice try, but it won't work. The north has the chance to be officially be part of the EU through BBF, but the GCs want Turkey to give up it's rights on the guarantees, Intervention and Zero Troops as a trade off, but of course, BBF with strong central government is no good to Turkey to give up on what the GCs demand, so now the plan is to try and use blackmail to throw in annexation or recognition of the north as the only option in your view just for the RoC to get some land back.

If the RoC is going to go for partition, why on Gods earth will they want to allow the north to become an EU state? They would take the land for recognition and then the north will be on it's own and ALL the Hydrocarbons would remain with the RoC. Under this deal, Turkey would neither want a recognition for the north without a EU membership deal for the north, nor will it annex it, or can annex it. It is still part of the EU territory don't forget. Lets just say the EU allows the north to be annexed just to "solve" the Cyprus problem, then that's it for Turkey, they can kiss off any chance to get the rest of Cyprus without a TC puppet president in the RoC, no Turks allowed to live in the RoC except for some TCs perhaps, all RoC EU passports cancelled to the TCs, therefore you will have only passports from Turkey, which has less value than bubblegum rapper, and last but not least, the Turks will kick out all the TCs from office and many jobs and replace them with the Turks. What will you do with all those educated TCs in the north? Most won't be able to leave the island for the EU since most only have British passports and they are soon out of the EU. Well, they can always go and work in Turkey doing the jobs the Turks won't do. No, MrH, annexation or recognition of the north without being in the EU is going to be a lose-lose for the north and Turkey, which is why, there will neither be a recognition of the north by the RoC, nor will there be annexation by Turkey. Sorry to have rained on your soon to be wishful parade.

[MrH]

Postby Sotos » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:34 pm
MrH, first of all it doesn't make a difference to us if those who occupy the north are TCs (mostly Settlers by now) or Turkey... keep this mind while I explain the rest. The "Plan A" of Turkey is to control the whole of Cyprus via some unstable federal structure where the two sides will never be truly united but will remain two opposing, antagonistic sides so that Turkey will be able to continue to use its divide and rule practices to control Cyprus. If the "Plan A" of Turkey fails (and it will fail because we are not so stupid to make the whole of Cyprus a puppet of Turkey) then the "Plan B" of Turkey is to gradually incorporate the north into its own territory. Turkey does NOT want an independent TC state, especially one which would join EU while Turkey stays out (and Turkey will never join EU). As you admitted TCs have no power, so with whom would we negotiate a deal where we offer recognition in return for land? We would be essentially negotiating with a puppet of Erdogan (if his name is Akinci, Talat or Eroglu makes little difference) and since Turkey does not want an independent TC state then such negotiations will fail like all other, since your side (i.e. Erdogan) will intentionally not offer enough land to make such deal enticing for us. Therefore forget the case of an independent TC state. It will not happen because neither RoC nor Turkey want this. Also forget the kind of BBF you were dreaming, it is not going to happen either. If you want BBF you have to compromise on several levels to make such deal acceptable to us, but your side will not make such compromises because Turkey will not agree to have a normal federal Cyprus which Turkey can't control. So what will happen is that the status quo will continue. If the balance of power changes then we can reclaim our land without any agreement (it is legally ours). If not then at some point we will just settle with Turkey (not with TCs, because TCs would have rendered themselves totally irrelevant by then), Turkey will give some land back and we will recognize the rest as a district of Turkey. IF you still have one last change to be relevant, that one last chance is now, but you will need a true leader, not another puppet of Turkey. If you produce a leader that can negotiate independently then you can have a TC component state within EU in a BBF acceptable to us, OR you can offer to return a very significant percentage of land in exchange for recognition which could entice us to accept such offer. Otherwise your community will very soon cease to exist.

Ok Sotos, and even Kikapu, although I understand your points of view, let's be honest and say that they are not the True Realities on the Ground are they. Let me spell it out and see if you can see the light. I will say the follow as exactly how We the TRNC see it - as one of its minster whom control the north (so to speak!):

1. The mess, or even opportunity, we are faced with today is Purely the doing of the Greek Cypriot administration stemming from the 1950s. You acted against British interested for independence and you were handed the 1960 Contribution of the. Ew ROC with its accompanying Treaties. And you signed it!
2. Today, after all the activities (let's be kind on that) since 1963, we have arrived at a state of affairs with two states, one recognised as the hijacked ROC having No control over the Northern state, and now this HydroCarbon Gas scenario which again will pitch Turkey directly in your face!
3. There no getting away from Turkey. The Greek Cypriots act like a teenager constantly ignoring his phone bill until it has to be paid by his parents.
4. You keep on forgetting that the Cyprus issue will never be solved until you take care of Turkey's position first. In that I mean, Turkey's hold on your GC-administered ROC. The Treaty of guarantee and Alliance will always apply until either:
5. There's a Comprehensive Solution to the island in the form of an Acceptable Federal BBF Agreement with Turkish guarantees, or you Recognise the TRNC tomorrow and advise the UN that the problem has been solved.
6. Personally, I don't care which solution is sought. Either would be fine with me.
7. But, according to my understanding, you really don't want the Federal BBF deal as your Greek Cypriot State would have the Guarantees of a Turkey embedded into it.
8. This is the risk....just like our Generation, there may be a liberal leader in your future generations, due to Turkey's growing influence and wealth, whom will accept a BBF. Just think about it.
9. Look at the deal that Turkey has signed with Israel regarding the transportation of their natural Gas via Turkey!
10. Now, let's consider that someone within your ranks suddenly woke up and wanted Turkey's influence to immediately STOP due to the riches being found regarding the Gas drilling affair. Which is actually probable.
11. This Greek Cypriot Recognises the TRNC, signs a deal with the backing of the UN to update the existing and original 1960 Constitution removing Turkey's influence due to the recognition of the TRNC, where Turkey become only the Guarantor of the North, leaving the South finally independent.
12. Let me reiterate my conclusion to you as a Five Year old. The only way out of Turkey not meddling in Your Greek Cypriot affairs is to recognise the TRNC and get Turkey to agree to a New set of Guarantees that only covers Northern Cyprus, where perhaps in that agreement you will also gain some land back and maybe even a new relationship with Turkey in terms of the effective, and efficient transportation of your natural gas find.
13. Other than the above, be READY for Turkey to always act as the Guarantor of the Entire island and claim 33%, if not 50% of any Gas revenue you may make from this new find.
14. Turkey is preparing itself in every way to the extent that it even managed to get Nicos Anastasiades to scarper the latest round of talks. This will happen every time.
15. Mark my words when I say that Turkey Controls the entire island of Cyprus. The problem here is that you Greek Cypriots have very short memories and an imaginary concept that Turkey will allow you to control the wealth of this new Gas find.
16. Look at it this way, due you really think that the TRNC hasn't been recognised yet because Turkey has been unable to effectively Champion it?
17. The truth is that Turkey could has sought many ways of forcefully recognising the TRNC, but he warns the Turkish Cypriots not to push it. Think about it Sotos, Get Real, B52 and the rest of you.
18. Think about what Turkey does with the TRNC with which you GCs have NO control over?
19. You Can't return back to your properties
20. We can actually fly to Ercan airport via Turkey
21. We have every Trading opportunities via Turkey only
22. Even the Borders are opening for our people to cross back and fourth for leisure and business purposes
23. In fact, I booked a package holiday deal from London the other yeau via Thomas Cook and flew into Larnaca, and took a Taxi to Girne, and returned to the UK via Larnaca.
24. Does that sound like a scenario with which is being controlled by the ROC?
25. Turkey is playing everyone like a fool and is eating the cake too!

[B25]

MrH, thank you for the long explanation, but I could have summed that up in just as few words.

'What a crock of shit'

You see it doesn't matter how many was you attempt to threaten or blackmail us we do hold the trump card. The hydrocarbons will be drilled, so far Turkey watching from afar. Where are the measures she has been threatening??

You had the luxury of coming via Larnaca at our grace, not Turkeys. If we decide to stop this we will and not you nor your motherland can do a thing about it.

So here it is again.

Tell your ministers, to close the crossing points, send back all your EU passports and ID, do not take pensions and other payments from the RoC that you despise so much. and then we shall see how you will fair via your beloved Turkey.

If the GCs had have a brain and grew some balls this is exactly what we would do, but alas, we have traitors as our politicians and 'leaders'.

Have a nice day.

[Pyrpolizer]

Reading the OP one could get the idea that the occupied is thriving!!
The truth is it's doing alright, but if you compare it with the ROC controlled areas it's an almost dead place.
Every sensible TC knows he is living well below his potential... In a way he is paying a price for the 1974 crime against the GCs.
The biggest price is of course been paid by the younger generation of TCs. No future, no prospects. Immigration to anywhere else other than Turkey, is getting harder and harder.

We finally all got the evidence we needed that the GCs can't solve the Cyprus problem both for the TCs and Turkey. Someone has to get out of the equation. Much to my regret that one will eventually be the TCs and the whatever properties they left behind.
40-50 more years...

[DrCyprus]

Immigration to anywhere else other than Turkey, is getting harder and harder.

I agree with most of your post, but how is that aspect getting harder. If anything else it's getting easier. Go to the south, get a ROC passport and travel and study and work anywhere in Europe.

[B25]

Immigration to anywhere else other than Turkey, is getting harder and harder.

I agree with most of your post, but how is that aspect getting harder. If anything else it's getting easier. Go to the south, get a ROC passport and travel and study and work anywhere in Europe.

But if the RoC grew some balls and didn't give them passports and declared the others void, then it would be harder. But we have a punch of pussies and good for nothing traitors as 'leaders' that's why we still have a Cyprob.

I'm just sick to the back teeth with these pussies that do nothing to help our cause. We almost gave the reigns to Turkey, but for Kotzias God Bless him, and we have some GC cunts that are criticising him. He saved us from disaster, just like Tassos did in 2004.