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...this is America.

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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Londonrake » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:40 am

Kikapu wrote:
Maximus wrote:
Londonrake wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackjones/2020/06/04/2020-presidential-betting-odds-favor-biden-over-trump-for-first-time/#74c1c3543963

.


They put Biden as the favorite.

I checked some other articles and Trump was in the lead up until the corona virus and these protests.

I dont agree with their political analysis as to why Biden is now favorite.

We will just have to wait and see, these odds fluctuate.


Who would in their right mind vote for Trump again unless they hate the US constitution and love fascism instead, just as Trump does. :roll:


The trouble is Biden’s not a very inspirational opponent. Moreover, he would be 78 years old at inauguration. Eight years more than the previous record holder (Trump). There have been some doubts expressed about his mental acuity. Whilst that could be laid at the door of political smearing he has a history of gaffes and blunders. As an opposition politician and senior statesman something regarded by many as endearing. As President, dealing with other leaders in a troubled world, another matter entirely. Were it not for Corvid and events in Minnesota there seems little doubt Trump’s second term would have been a walk in the park. Minnesota, like the partisan Democrat attempt at impeachment, could backfire though. Against the odds Nixon got in on a “Law and Order” ticket in 68. Whilst the media have been full of protest events the “silent majority” have looked on with horror at the anarchy. The worm could turn - and you will end up with another 4 years of Trump by default.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:19 am

Paphitis wrote:
Well if they are uneducated idiots (your words) they have to be trained like idiots at their academy. pilots are trained like we are dumb idiots. There isn't a lot of room for error. If event A happens, you must do B. If event C happens you must do D, and so on. There has to be a degree of regimental behaviour in police forces and in flying otherwise mistakes can happen and we kill ourselves. The guesswork hass to be taken out of the equation as much as possible.

It seems obvious to me that police in the States are trained to ensure that their safety is as near as 100% as possible. It's obvious to me that they are trained to assume every suspect is carrying a gun. Hence why, they pull out theirs until the suspect is cuffed or restrained.

I got no problem with them doing things like this. I am sure it is extremely scary to the suspect and the general public. May even appear heavy handed. But I can't blame them for this.

Blocking the airway of a suspect thus killing him, is however, criminal. No question about that.

But as we agree, this isn't a matter of race. More whites are killed by police than blacks. What this is is a case of police brutality costing the life of a man (colour is irrelevant). An action by an officer that needs to be addressed in court along with potentially another 3 officers.


Being a police officer is not about serving the community with pride and honour for the majority who take up the job. For most, they put in their 25 years of service to build up their pensions and benefits and then move onto other things. As long as they have finished their high school education, they can become a cop, given a badge and a gun after their 3 months of training. Even if they had good intentions of becoming a good cop, they are soon corrupted by their piers. The two rookie cops who are charged in the murder of Floyd cannot hide behind the argument that they have only been on the job for 4 days because they had already completed their training at the police academy. Taking part in holding Floyd down when the man already cuffed with his hand on this back, there was no reason to continue holding him down regardless whether or not their senior officer refusing their request to turn Floyd over. They had the option to let go off Floyd and insist to Chauvin to take his knee off Floyd. Bottom line, they being charged for Floyd’s murder is a correct call.

This isn’t the first murder by police where other police officers did not intervened. They are corrupted to protect each other and committing violence on the citizens becomes part of their routine. Corruption breeds corruption and violence against the citizens breeds violence as they are protected from prosecution mainly by the local district attorney’s office, who mostly supported by funds from the police and prison guards unions. Corruption breeds corruption. All previous murders committed by the police which were recorded but were not charged by the district attorney must now be reviewed by independent counsel and bring charges against those officers if and when warranted. Killing citizens and violating their rights by the police and prison guards must stop being their past time hobby.

There was a time where the lower ranking flight crew were afraid to take action against the pilot in command, which lead to many disasters, but that was changed after the Tenerife runway crash of two 747’s killing few hundred, because by not questioning the captain and taking actions to avert disaster, their own lives were too in danger. I am glad that the lower ranking pilots can now question the captain if they feel a mistake has been made by the captain without being afraid being black listed.

Btw, more blacks are killed than whites by the police when you adjust the percentages of the population.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:07 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Maximus wrote:
Londonrake wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackjones/2020/06/04/2020-presidential-betting-odds-favor-biden-over-trump-for-first-time/#74c1c3543963

.


They put Biden as the favorite.

I checked some other articles and Trump was in the lead up until the corona virus and these protests.

I dont agree with their political analysis as to why Biden is now favorite.

We will just have to wait and see, these odds fluctuate.


Who would in their right mind vote for Trump again unless they hate the US constitution and love fascism instead, just as Trump does. :roll:


The trouble is Biden’s not a very inspirational opponent. Moreover, he would be 78 years old at inauguration. Eight years more than the previous record holder (Trump). There have been some doubts expressed about his mental acuity. Whilst that could be laid at the door of political smearing he has a history of gaffes and blunders. As an opposition politician and senior statesman something regarded by many as endearing. As President, dealing with other leaders in a troubled world, another matter entirely. Were it not for Corvid and events in Minnesota there seems little doubt Trump’s second term would have been a walk in the park. Minnesota, like the partisan Democrat attempt at impeachment, could backfire though. Against the odds Nixon got in on a “Law and Order” ticket in 68. Whilst the media have been full of protest events the “silent majority” have looked on with horror at the anarchy. The worm could turn - and you will end up with another 4 years of Trump by default.

I hear you, but two weeks is a long time in politics as we have seen more and more of Trump’s abuse of power who is acting more and more of a dictating Nazi. Time has come to remove Trump by those who love the US constitution and hate fascism, regardless which political ideology one holds as Americans, be it be Republican, Democrat or Independent. Love of the USA and the constitution must come first before party loyalty. Trump is just a narcissist who would be happy to have the second civil war in the US, and the more he remains in office, further the division of the US grows. Time to put him out to the fascist pastureland. At this point even an Orangutan would be suitable replacement for Trump, let alone Biden despite his faults.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:25 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Maximus wrote:
Londonrake wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackjones/2020/06/04/2020-presidential-betting-odds-favor-biden-over-trump-for-first-time/#74c1c3543963

.


They put Biden as the favorite.

I checked some other articles and Trump was in the lead up until the corona virus and these protests.

I dont agree with their political analysis as to why Biden is now favorite.

We will just have to wait and see, these odds fluctuate.


Who would in their right mind vote for Trump again unless they hate the US constitution and love fascism instead, just as Trump does. :roll:


Ih yeh. Everyone that goes against the establishment narrative is a fascist and racist.

Just exactly the reason why MANY will vote for Trump.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Londonrake » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:26 pm

Kikapu wrote:I hear you, but two weeks is a long time in politics as we have seen more and more of Trump’s abuse of power who is acting more and more of a dictating Nazi. Time has come to remove Trump by those who love the US constitution and hate fascism, regardless which political ideology one holds as Americans, be it be Republican, Democrat or Independent. Love of the USA and the constitution must come first before party loyalty. Trump is just a narcissist who would be happy to have the second civil war in the US, and the more he remains in office, further the division of the US grows. Time to put him out to the fascist pastureland. At this point even an Orangutan would be suitable replacement for Trump, let alone Biden despite his faults.


I’m no fan of Trump. Although, I understand how such a President came about at that moment in time. A lesson which sadly looks wasted on the “Liberal” intelligentsia. Anyway, I think he’s unsuited.

Having said that. Your post does read a bit like a political broadcast. On behalf of the “absolutely anyone but Trump” party. :D 5 months and 9 days to go :wink:
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:27 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Maximus wrote:
Londonrake wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackjones/2020/06/04/2020-presidential-betting-odds-favor-biden-over-trump-for-first-time/#74c1c3543963

.


They put Biden as the favorite.

I checked some other articles and Trump was in the lead up until the corona virus and these protests.

I dont agree with their political analysis as to why Biden is now favorite.

We will just have to wait and see, these odds fluctuate.


Who would in their right mind vote for Trump again unless they hate the US constitution and love fascism instead, just as Trump does. :roll:


The trouble is Biden’s not a very inspirational opponent. Moreover, he would be 78 years old at inauguration. Eight years more than the previous record holder (Trump). There have been some doubts expressed about his mental acuity. Whilst that could be laid at the door of political smearing he has a history of gaffes and blunders. As an opposition politician and senior statesman something regarded by many as endearing. As President, dealing with other leaders in a troubled world, another matter entirely. Were it not for Corvid and events in Minnesota there seems little doubt Trump’s second term would have been a walk in the park. Minnesota, like the partisan Democrat attempt at impeachment, could backfire though. Against the odds Nixon got in on a “Law and Order” ticket in 68. Whilst the media have been full of protest events the “silent majority” have looked on with horror at the anarchy. The worm could turn - and you will end up with another 4 years of Trump by default.


And yet the man had the maturity and intelligence to engage North Korea in diplomacy. Something that was beyond the pale as far as Clinton was concerned.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:32 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Well if they are uneducated idiots (your words) they have to be trained like idiots at their academy. pilots are trained like we are dumb idiots. There isn't a lot of room for error. If event A happens, you must do B. If event C happens you must do D, and so on. There has to be a degree of regimental behaviour in police forces and in flying otherwise mistakes can happen and we kill ourselves. The guesswork hass to be taken out of the equation as much as possible.

It seems obvious to me that police in the States are trained to ensure that their safety is as near as 100% as possible. It's obvious to me that they are trained to assume every suspect is carrying a gun. Hence why, they pull out theirs until the suspect is cuffed or restrained.

I got no problem with them doing things like this. I am sure it is extremely scary to the suspect and the general public. May even appear heavy handed. But I can't blame them for this.

Blocking the airway of a suspect thus killing him, is however, criminal. No question about that.

But as we agree, this isn't a matter of race. More whites are killed by police than blacks. What this is is a case of police brutality costing the life of a man (colour is irrelevant). An action by an officer that needs to be addressed in court along with potentially another 3 officers.


Being a police officer is not about serving the community with pride and honour for the majority who take up the job. For most, they put in their 25 years of service to build up their pensions and benefits and then move onto other things. As long as they have finished their high school education, they can become a cop, given a badge and a gun after their 3 months of training. Even if they had good intentions of becoming a good cop, they are soon corrupted by their piers. The two rookie cops who are charged in the murder of Floyd cannot hide behind the argument that they have only been on the job for 4 days because they had already completed their training at the police academy. Taking part in holding Floyd down when the man already cuffed with his hand on this back, there was no reason to continue holding him down regardless whether or not their senior officer refusing their request to turn Floyd over. They had the option to let go off Floyd and insist to Chauvin to take his knee off Floyd. Bottom line, they being charged for Floyd’s murder is a correct call.

This isn’t the first murder by police where other police officers did not intervened. They are corrupted to protect each other and committing violence on the citizens becomes part of their routine. Corruption breeds corruption and violence against the citizens breeds violence as they are protected from prosecution mainly by the local district attorney’s office, who mostly supported by funds from the police and prison guards unions. Corruption breeds corruption. All previous murders committed by the police which were recorded but were not charged by the district attorney must now be reviewed by independent counsel and bring charges against those officers if and when warranted. Killing citizens and violating their rights by the police and prison guards must stop being their past time hobby.

There was a time where the lower ranking flight crew were afraid to take action against the pilot in command, which lead to many disasters, but that was changed after the Tenerife runway crash of two 747’s killing few hundred, because by not questioning the captain and taking actions to avert disaster, their own lives were too in danger. I am glad that the lower ranking pilots can now question the captain if they feel a mistake has been made by the captain without being afraid being black listed.

Btw, more blacks are killed than whites by the police when you adjust the percentages of the population.


I got to disagree with you there kikapu.

My wife lived in New York for just over a year whilst working in the UN Building. She had to catch the train and subway every day. And the NYPD is virtually at every Station. this was a year after September 11.

I asked her how she found the NYPD and whether she had any dealings with them. She said on a few occasions. They were quite approachable.

One time, my wife saw a package on a bench. She tapped an officer that was present and asked him if he was going to do anything about that parcel. It could be a bomb. Copper didn't pay any attention to it or even notice it. his response was, "now there is a point" and got on the radio and checked the package. It was no bomb.

She said, they were very polite. Never seen an arrogant cop but can be a little laid back sometimes.

I believe that 99% of them are happy to serve the community and probably believe they are doing a great service to the community.

And no, I don't believe they are needlessly murdering people left right and center.

As to helping each other. Yes that happens in every country. they will back each other up. But backing an officer that blatantly uses excessive force might be a different matter. As to why the other 3 officers were just standing by watching is anyone's guess. they might not have thought it was that serious or believe the guy was going to die. They could have been rookies and intimidated by rank. I can't really say but there many possibilities. not to excuse the act of taking the life of the suspect. I said many times, that this officer committed a crime.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Get Real! » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:10 pm

American hypocrisy tips & tricks:

All they have to do is re-label your free speech into “hate speech” and voila! Your “free speech” goes out the window... bye-bye! :lol:
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:19 pm

Paphitis wrote:
And yet the man had the maturity and intelligence to engage North Korea in diplomacy. Something that was beyond the pale as far as Clinton was concerned.

:shock: :shock: :shock:
North Korea Says Trump’s ‘Empty Promise’ Dashes Hopes for Deal

North Korea accused the U.S. of breaking promises it made at a historic summit two years ago, saying the Trump administration had turned dreams for peace into “a dark nightmare” and dashed hopes for denuclearization.

Foreign Minister Ri Son Gwon said in a message to mark the second anniversary of the then-unprecedented June 12, 2018, meeting between leader Kim Jong Un and President Donald Trump that the U.S. had broken its word, adding that North Korea saw no benefit in engaging with Washington.

“Nothing is more hypocritical than an empty promise,” Ri was quoted as saying in a Friday report from the official Korean Central News Agency. He added the U.S. has shown over the past two years that it’s aiming for the “isolation and suffocation” of North Korea. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... with-trump
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:23 pm

Get Real! wrote:American hypocrisy tips & tricks:

All they have to do is re-label your free speech into “hate speech” and voila! Your “free speech” goes out the window... bye-bye! :lol:


"Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" is just a slogan and not the reality! :( :( :(
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