Kikapu wrote:MR-from-NG wrote:Kikapu wrote:74LB wrote:Lets imagine the talks go the way some wish ........ all Turkish troops leave, no guarantor powers, most if not all "non-Cypriots" also leave, no rotating presidency, most people return to their native villages/towns, adequate compensation is provided for all who lost out in the last 40 plus years etc etc.
As a TC what will stop any fanatical groups from attacking TC villages or towns ? Or even non-fanatics simply seeking revenge for what they sufferred in 1974 post the coup that overthrew Makarios. What will stop TC's who go about their day-to-day lives from disappearing to only be discovered many decades later in wells ?
Who do TC's turn to in this hour of need considering in all likelihood the police, security forces, army, government offices etc will be staffed in the main by GC's ? The vast majority of TC's cannot speak Greek and only a minority of students or graduates can get by using English.
I know most on this forum will say there is nothing to fear and i sincerely hope that would be the case but this is a genuine concern for most TC's.
Thanks
74LB
74LB, lets say everything you wrote becomes true and the TCs are attacked day in day out by the GCs. Who then is going to stop Turkey from justifiably invading Cyprus to save the TCs from the GCs, guarantor power or not? So where is the risk for the TCs?
Am I missing something?
Kiks, this is what Gr said a while back, go back to page 2 and see for yourself.
"Let me help you decide...
I’m generously offering the Ottoman remnant cowards the same guarantees that the native people of Cyprus were offered in the 1500s, the 1600s, the 1700s, the 1800s, the 1900s, and the 20th century!
My well-polished G3 is your only guarantee my friends… it’s guaranteed to widen your bum-holes."
As for for what you're missing? We are all aware of your policy. You treat the fucking forum as a popularity contest. And of course there are more Greeks to please on the forum than Turks so you will always side with them. What you're missing and disrespecting is the will of the people. You are forgetting these people were saved by the skin of their teeth from certain extinction, they are scared shitless it will happen again, and looking at the hatred the Greeks have for the Turks who can blame them.
Actually I did read what GR wrote, and his response is basically because of the guarantees that TCs/Turkey wants. What I'm saying is, why do we TCs need to ask for any guarantees with BBF if Turkey can invade Cyprus to save the TCs should there be a need in the future? Who is going to stop Turkey from invading should there be a valid reason? I accept some TCs may be shit scared from the GCs, but there are also some GCs who are shit scared from the TCs/Turkey with guarantees, because it can be perceived, that with such guarantees from Turkey, that the TCs can misuse it to cause problems for the GCs. You are looking at things from just one end and I'm looking at things from both ends. In order to calm the fears of the other, neither side should have such guarantees as it can be abused, as Turkey has abused it's guarantee responsibilities since 1974, or do you disagree with this?
Just to remind you, Turkey NEVER had a guarantee power just to protect the TCs in Cyprus, but that's what Turkey is asking for now with some TCs. With such power given to Turkey, it can be abused in 1001 ways which will lead to the repeat of 1974 all over again, even without a good reason. Under these possibilities, what's the point of a "settlement", when it won't last too long before the next problems start under "false flag". The whole purpose of BBF is to allow each state to mind their own business, but under one Cyprus roof. Surely you can't trust Turkey not to fcuk things up in Cyprus in order to benefit herself? They are already asking for the 4 Freedoms to also apply to all the 80 million Turks in Cyprus and the EU along with security guarantees. If this is not intended to fcuk ALL Cypriots one way or the other, including the TCs, then you have more faith in Turkey than most Cypriots will ever have.
...powerful words Kikapu, thank-you.
What is Erdogan doing in Cyprus? He is setting up a political change where "Turkishness", as defined by what is not "Turkish", gains for him an exclusivity in power. It is not for the Cypriot benefit, Turkish or Greek, for that matter, it is for the changes he wishes to make at home, for himself.
Becoming the Executive President of Turkey is a first step, toward this ultimate goal. Yet, I still ask myself, how does he solve the problem of a Kurdish identity in Turkey, how does he solve the distinct identity the Alevi sustain as Turks, never mind the other minorities in Turkey who over the years have been reduced, one way or another to near non existence? How does he eliminate their opposition, or their desire to sustain these identities? How will, if he succeeds, have them submit to "Turkishness" as something superior in "being", to Turkish Citizenship? Seems more likely he will fail. Seems more likely that Turkey, its constituencies, will be driven even further apart.
And thus, the BBF, one that the world holds in high esteem, is his Plan B (for Cyprus, but more importantly as a template to the changes that may happen in Turkey).
...for those, in Cyprus, who are duty bound to "Turkishness", and Erdogan's vision of it, they will be his martyrs (if he fails), they will become Cypriots in affect for a better Turkey.
Either way he is the man in Turkey's History who seeks a greatness beyond Ataturk. If his original intention cannot succeed, he will be prepared, just the same, to offer a "new Turkey" as his Legacy.
Cyprus divided, only leads to a Turkey divided. I think Erdogan knows that very well, but it does not stop him from trying to make "a deal" on the rest of the world's Universal Principals; he wins if "they" fail themselves.
