tcklim wrote:Look, no matter how much you go on about human rights and legality the bottom line is it will never get you anywhere and the EU leverage game which the GC-side so optimistically counted on is simply not going to work.
You have to understand WHY Turkey did what it did and what portion of their actions the GC side was to blame for. While the occupation is illegal, you cannot realistically expect Turkish troops to get up and leave tomorrow because you keep telling them that. It is nnootttt going to work. You have to try to UNDERSTAND the other sides in my opinions very justified concerns. The only reason they are demanding what they are demanding is for security, which the past has taught them is very unreliable living interlaced with GC's. No person will give up the safety of their families to have embargoes lifted or to give homes back to others, as bad as that sounds. I do not justify the displacement and killing of innocents that occurred as a result of the invasion, and I was previously anti-TC views as well (after being taught in GC schools) but much later on I have seen the bigger picture, you should try that too...
Instead of constantly throwing the SAME OLD THING that is constantly repeated on every single thread no matter what the topic about legality and human rights and what fascinating everyone seems to know the "majority of TC's" want, how about trying to think a little to how to build trust and ferment friendship. If you don't want TC's to insist on the 50/50 thing, then show them why they don't need to! Build friendships, build bridges, find a way to become closer to the other side without spewing out insults and names! I have a great TC friend over in the South and he still faces difficult times just because of his name. Nevermind the fact that he speaks greek perfectly, he faces discrimination in trying to get a job, at work itself and most of all the in the government ministries whenever trying to do even menial paperwork! Why would a TC want to come to this evnironment where they are treated as second-class???? Would you???? Hell the TC leader gives Tassos a christmas card and Tassos goes on a media campaign lambasting him as playing political games..... what the hell.... any gesture the TC's make is met with a hostile response. If I was a TC (and try placing yourself in their shoes), I would seriously doubt GC intentions.
Now whatever I say I always get the same response so I don't know why i bother, I think this shall be my last attempt.... but I just say, in my opinion, if you want a solution stop being stubborn and contradicting yourself, such as blaming the world for your problems, not making a single effort to try resolve the problem locally through trust and friendship building actions, but instead insisting that the UN and EU do all the work for you then rejecting what they come up with and blaming them for your problems yet again.... it's sad...
Flame away
Dear tcklim
Thank you for your lecture on Realpolitik – Mr. Kissinger would be proud.
GCs like myself insist on our human rights not out of stubborness, bloody-mindedness, or pigheadedness, but because (as others have tried to point out) it is no less than what we are entitled to under international law (and what every human being is entitled to). What you don’t seem to appreciate is if we allow Turkey’s illegal actions to stand, it sets a very dangerous precedent and erodes principles which we all have a responsibility to defend. It puts all of us at risk – Greek, Turk, Iraqi – EVERYONE.
I have heard TCs raise the issue of security many times. It is not that GCs do not understand these concerns. However, as I have said elsewhere, it is not sufficient to claim that you are afraid of GCs and that for this reason you are entitled to keep our property. I think you have to demonstrate that your fear of harm is well-founded, and you also have to be realistic about the measures that can reasonably be taken to mitigate that fear (this was what Piratis’ example about traffic accidents was about – it was a very good analogy and I’m sorry you didn’t appreciate it).
If you ask for the impossible (ie an absolute guarantee that no TC will ever experience racism, discrimination or rudeness in a re-united Cyprus –something that cannot be guaranteed anywhere in the world, including a separate TC state), it’s not fair to accuse GCs of being ‘inflexible’ when we can’t accommodate your demands.
It is not sufficient, to justify your claims of fear of harm from GCs, to point to an isolated example (your TC friend in the south) and claim that this proves that GCs are racist and that the two communities cannot live together. As others have already pointed out, the weight of evidence supports the opposite conclusion. As I’m sure you know, TCs in the free area of Cyprus are entitled to health care, employment, insurance, and pensions amongst other benefits – is this your idea of “not making a single effort to try resolve the problem locally through trust and friendship building actions” ? what rights do GCs have in the occupied area ? None. (by the way, finding employment in Cyprus is hard for most people – no matter what your race, as is dealing with the bureaucracy). The opening up of the Green line has not led to any inter-communal violence either (even though GC refugees have good reason to be extremely angry about the state of their properties, churches etc in the occupied area). We also know that GCs and TCs live and work side by side in places like London in relative harmony (in fact there are many friendships between GCs and TCs).
If there is any ill-feeling towards TCs at all, it is not out of racism or because of events in the past, but because of your almost universal failure to condemn Turkey for its ongoing violations of the human rights of your compatriots. If we are all just Cypriots, where are the TC voices calling for respect for the human rights of GCs, in the way for example that many Jews have voiced their opposition to Israel’s violations of the human rights of Palestinian refugees. You would have a lot more credibility amongst GCs if you took a stand against the occupation of our country (yours and mine) by a foreign power that has no respect for any of us. It takes guts to stand up for what is right, as opposed to what is simply in your self-interest.
