Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

You left behind 64 you stole 128. Don't pretend to be the victim.

And this time I intend to hold onto it....

Your intentions have always been clear.

Sorry Piratis, listen, just send me an address and I will send you the deeds to my land. Hell I will ask all TCs to do the same so that it saves you the embarrassment of threatening and/or killing us to get what you want.

[tcklim]

It's amazing how most people here are blaming everyone but themselves for the situation........

You can't solve disputes by constantly throwing blame and accusations at the other side, the sooner you realize that, the sooner you have a chance....

Good luck

[BirKibrisli]

What
Strange
Beings
We Are!
That Sitting
In Hell
At The Bottom
Of The Dark
We Are Afraid
Of our Own

--Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi

[Piratis]

It's amazing how most people here are blaming everyone but themselves for the situation........

You can't solve disputes by constantly throwing blame and accusations at the other side, the sooner you realize that, the sooner you have a chance....

Are you saying that as a rule everybody involved in a disaster have equal amount of blame? If we take an extreme hypothetical situation (not Cyprus) isn't it perfectly possible that one side has almost the 100% of the blame?

If splitting blame equally among the parties involved is what is considered just then courts would have a way easier job to do.

In the case of Cyprus all sides have part of the blame. However, as it is with most cases, some have more blame and some less.

For me who has more or less blame in the past becomes relevant only when some people instead of accepting the wrong doings of thier ancestors they are instead trying to find excuses as to why these crimes should continue.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis is it so important to apportion blame? where will it get you other than annimosity between our communites. Isnt the future more importnant now and how we address each communites fears and concerns.

[tcklim]

Piratis, if you insist on trying to put all the blame on the otherside then you and like-minded GC's are a huge part of the problem regarding a lack of any progress whatsoever towards a solution...

When you're trying to direct blame, you're also directing hatred and bias, and a solution based on this (which will never materialise in that mindset anyway) will not work. Instead, try to understand both side of the story and build trust, rather than destroying it....

Of course, that is'nt gonna happen cos you're probably gonna start on another predictable tirade about your god-given human rights and what monsters the other side is..... but oh well

[Piratis]

Piratis is it so important to apportion blame? where will it get you other than annimosity between our communites. Isnt the future more importnant now and how we address each communites fears and concerns.

You always start this racist hate/blame game, and when I reply to your ridiculous claims you blame me???

Ok, lets start from beginning, I will not mention anything about blame and the past first and lets see if you can make any argument without using racist remarks, blames and the past, ok?

SO:

Today Turkey is illegally occupying Cyprus and this occupation violates the human rights of 1000s of people. UN resolutions call for the respect of sovereignty of RoC and the withdrawal of all foreign troops, and ECHR rulings confirm that refugees should be allowed to return to their own homes.
What I propose is respect to the human and democratic rights of everybody, equality of all Cypriots without any kind of discrimination based on their race, religion, language, sex etc, and either the return to legality or a new constitution based on the the constitution of any other EU country.

Note 1: I did not blame anybody because of the past, since I ask for the punishment of nobody and the respect of the human and democratic rights of everybody.

Note 2: I make no racist distinction between Greek, Turkish or other Cypriot. All Cypriots should have all their rights regardless of their race.

Note 3: What I propose is based solely on universally accepted principles. I ask for a constitution based on any other EU country (the choice is yours), and not for something completely different tailored on my needs and in violation of the human rights of others.

So viewpoint and tcklim. What do you have to say? Isn't it time indeed to end the animosity between our communities and stop the excuses as to why actions against the human and democratic rights of others should continue?

[lysi]

Its not just the pro-turkish british & usa government at fault, its the weak crap cyprus government that seems to help keep the occupation going because of its total inaction, even joining the eu has not helped to end the occupation because the cyprus government still keeps acting like a puppy.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis all the things you chant for are only attainable through negotiations, they do not drop out of the sky or will be handed to you on a plate.
Not neogotiating only perpetuates the current stalemate and therefore division.

You to agree that both communities caused the current situation we messed up big time back then and the only way is talk to each other and come to a compromise where we will all be committed to reunification.

You can have as mush legal high ground, resolutions and internal backing you wish as long as you do not have TCs support you will have nothing. So try very hard to understand our concerns as I am really trying hard to understand yours.

[Piratis]

Piratis all the things you chant for are only attainable through negotiations

Wrong. Principles like democracy and human rights are not things negotiable in the civilized world.

Not neogotiating only perpetuates the current stalemate and therefore division.

What perpetuates division is your insistence on illegality and your denial to accept the universally accepted principles that exist in all other democratic countries. You insist on something that exists nowhere else, that is tailored on your outrageous demands and shows no respect even to our basic human rights.

You to agree that both communities caused the current situation we messed up big time back then and the only way is talk to each other and come to a compromise where we will all be committed to reunification.

Here we go. So, who is using the blame game and the past in order to gain more on the loss of the other? The compromise was made in 1960. Why should we make any further compromises, while TCs gain more than what they had in 1960 on our loss??
If we wanted to change the 1960 agreements with negotiations it should be done like this: For everything we give up you should give up something of equivalent value. In the end no side should be worst or better off. If we can not agree, then the result is no change to what has already been agreed, and not the illegality that you forced on us.

However the kind of negotiations that you want are the ones that you only take and we only give, and if you are not satisfied with what you got from us you simply continue forcing what you want. These are not fair negotiations my friend.

You can have as mush legal high ground, resolutions and internal backing you wish as long as you do not have TCs support you will have nothing.

It is clear that most TCs do not care about legality, international law, European Court of Human Rights rulings, UN resolutions etc. All these mean nothing to you and all you care is how to use the Turkish army to force on us something against everything mentioned above.

Viewpoint, the only thing you keep saying is "negotiations". Sure. But why you don't answer to the arguments here yourself? Why don't you tell us your opinion in what I propose?

Is it maybe because you are ashamed to express your opinion here since you really have no arguments against the very sensible things I propose?

Would expressing your own opinion reveal your racist and hostile attitude against Greek Cypriots and for this reason you would rather have your leaders do this dirty job behind closed doors?