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[Get Real!]

Since we are talking about religion,

Err, no nobody is. Just you!

What a loser...

[Get Real!]

King of idiots… that which is INFINITE does not have a beginning or an end... very much like your stupidity.

It is simply your presumption that the universe had a beginning. Perhaps the universe is infinite, or perhaps the overarching natural environment in which the universe exits, such as a putative multiverse in which individual universes come into being and end, is infinite. This dispenses with the need for myths about a God.

Look, I don’t have a problem with the idea of an infinite universe; although I was referring to God when I wrote that, in which case the universe itself becomes God!

See how there’s no escape from God… (<-- or whatever label you may choose to use) because it can in a way be the sum of all the magic out there.

I realise that you were referring to God and I was turning your logic on its head. Actually, this is something you seem to have told me before. That 'God' is just your word for the universe. That's certainly not the story you get in the so-called holy books.

I'm open to such things as long as we acknowledge the superiority of this power and pay our respects to it instead of being disrespectful and rude like some individuals here who take it for granted.

Btw I’m not any more comfortable with the contents of holy books than you are!

[miltiades]

Since we are talking about religion,

Err, no nobody is. Just you!

What a loser...

Dont you mean a ....looser ?
Since it appears there are so many jokers around here is a religious joke:

There was a preacher who fell in the ocean and he couldn't swim. When a boat came by, the captain yelled, "Do you need help, sir?" The preacher calmly said "No, God will save me." A little later, another boat came by and a fisherman asked, "Hey, do you need help?" The preacher replied again, "No God will save me." Eventually the preacher drowned & went to heaven. The preacher asked God, "Why didn't you save me?" God replied, "Fool, I sent you two boats!" -

[Tim Drayton]

King of idiots… that which is INFINITE does not have a beginning or an end... very much like your stupidity.

It is simply your presumption that the universe had a beginning. Perhaps the universe is infinite, or perhaps the overarching natural environment in which the universe exits, such as a putative multiverse in which individual universes come into being and end, is infinite. This dispenses with the need for myths about a God.

Look, I don’t have a problem with the idea of an infinite universe; although I was referring to God when I wrote that, in which case the universe itself becomes God!

See how there’s no escape from God… (<-- or whatever label you may choose to use) because it can in a way be the sum of all the magic out there.

I realise that you were referring to God and I was turning your logic on its head. Actually, this is something you seem to have told me before. That 'God' is just your word for the universe. That's certainly not the story you get in the so-called holy books.

I'm open to such things as long as we acknowledge the superiority of this power and pay our respects to it instead of being disrespectful and rude like some individuals here who take it for granted.

Btw I’m not any more comfortable with the contents of holy books than you are!

Well, OK, the current state of our knowledge as furnished by Physics (and I am definitely not somebody to speak with great authority on this) is that energy is the most basic force in nature - even matter is a manifestation of energy. So perhaps you could argue that energy is 'God'. However, this argument does not work for me. 'God' is surely by definition a supernatural being. If you say that all that has existed, exists and will exist is that which is material and natural, this dispenses with the very notion of 'God'. I cannot see why we have to worship or exalt something like energy. It is just the basic force that moves the universe (and our universe may well just be a tiny component of all that exists and so energy may not be that important on a grander scale, anyway) and is impersonal. Apart from that, if God is all-powerful and also can't stand having the piss taken out of him, he would surely send down a thunder bolt to destroy these blasphemers. If there were a God, the fact that blasphemers can get away with it would demonstrates that he didn't mind.

[Get Real!]

Well, OK, the current state of our knowledge as furnished by Physics (and I am definitely not somebody to speak with great authority on this) is that energy is the most basic force in nature - even matter is a manifestation of energy. So perhaps you could argue that energy is 'God'. However, this argument does not work for me. 'God' is surely by definition a supernatural being. If you say that all that has existed, exists and will exist is that which is material and natural, this dispenses with the very notion of 'God'. I cannot see why we have to worship or exalt something like energy. It is just the basic force that moves the universe (and our universe may well just be a tiny component of all that exists and so energy may not be that important on a grander scale, anyway) and is impersonal. Apart from that, if God is all-powerful and also can't stand having the piss taken out of him, he would surely send down a thunder bolt to destroy these blasphemers. If there were a God, the fact that blasphemers can get away with it would demonstrates that he didn't mind.

Energy alone does not seem sufficient as there’s clearly a lot of design involved. This tiny planet alone displays an incredible amount of design and planning so I think we should give more credit than just “energy” as described by physics. It doesn’t appear to be a random cosmos.

[Get Real!]

Random vs. Design

Consider this simple example with a glass of colored liquid.

I can just pour the liquid from a glass onto the floor and each time it’ll create a different pattern of spillage. It will always be a randomly generated spillage and I’ll most likely never be able to get two identical spillages in this way, no matter how many times I repeat the experiment.

On the other hand, I can take a glass of liquid and hold it just high enough above the floor and only allow it to spill at predetermined intervals, at predetermined quantities, and move my hand back and forth in a predetermined manner, until I form an intended “patterned” spillage.

They are both spillages… one is random and the other intentional and it is very obvious which is which by observing the patterns on the floor.

Similarly, when we observe the cosmos, planets that are visible to us are almost perfect spheres… galaxies are beautiful almost symmetrical shapes, clusters of galaxies also have mesmerizing patterns and needless to mention all the mesmerizing patterns and behavior of life forms on this tiny planet alone.

The design involved in the cosmos is obvious.

Had it just been “energy” as we know it and with no design involved, the universe and each of its contents would’ve probably looked like used bullets... shapeless, asymmetrical, and ugly.

[Lordo]

who says life is only on this planet. meteors have landed on this earth from outer space with amino acids in them. that is the building blocks of proteins and ultimately life. you are deluding yourself believing 2000 year old fairy tale that earth was created in 6 days about 5000 years ago.

if there was design involved so many animals would not evolve to fill in the space left by those that went extinct. we have even had reverse evolution where animals have lost their eyes because they live in pitch black caves. nature is very efficient and does not waste energy developing organs that are not used.

as to the planets being designed how can you be so stupid. planets are being created as we speak ffs who is designing them. the materials for them is coming from exploding stars. they are formed by gravitational forces pulling them together.

gravity is the answer pure and simple. certainly mass can be converted to energy and energy to mass but ultimately gravity forms planets. watch what happens to small crystals of salt in space.

enjoy.

[Get Real!]

Baloney Lordo…

Since when do explosions (as in the “big bang”) create near perfect spheres and other beautiful patterns that begin to rotate around each other?

You should be able to recreate a mini version of that right here on Earth if it were valid!

Explosions can only DESTROY whatever is there… nothing is ever born out of an explosion other than smoke and fire. An explosion is the ultimate destruction not construction!

I won't even confuse you with the creation of complex butterflies out of your explosion/s!

[Lordo]

Baloney Lordo…

Since when do explosions (as in the “big bang”) create near perfect spheres and other beautiful patterns that begin to rotate around each other?

You should be able to recreate a mini version of that right here on Earth if it were valid!

Explosions can only DESTROY whatever is there… nothing is ever born out of an explosion other than smoke and fire. An explosion is the ultimate destruction not construction!

gravity is the magic word so lets say god is gravity and then we are in agreement.
without gravity there will be no galaxies forming,
there will be no planets going around stars and
there will be no life on any planets.

gravity. get it.

[Get Real!]

Baloney Lordo…

Since when do explosions (as in the “big bang”) create near perfect spheres and other beautiful patterns that begin to rotate around each other?

You should be able to recreate a mini version of that right here on Earth if it were valid!

Explosions can only DESTROY whatever is there… nothing is ever born out of an explosion other than smoke and fire. An explosion is the ultimate destruction not construction!

gravity is the magic word so lets say god is gravity and then we are in agreement.

Gravity is a phenomenon brought about; along with many others, as a result of God's complex work. Prior to God's move there was nothing.