Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Birkibrisli

I have had that view for a while and I have to tell you my friend not to be sad. There is a positive side to this as well. You just have to look for it. I was speaking to someone last night that said "Recognition will bring us closer to unification" and I have thought that all along. This is not the end, it is the beginning of two cultures getting to know them selves as well as each other. Where else can we go when we have no one to hate. We will miss each other and forget our differences but it needs time. Be patient and we can sit on a cloud and watch the children play.

[Piratis]

Do you cosnider East Thrace and Asia Minor to be greek land, and are we in your eyes the conquerors of that land?

Greeks have founded most of the main cities, especially in west Asia Minor, and have lived there for much longer than the Turks. When the Turks came they were obviously conquerors.

However in the last century we also have international law and agreements that clearly define the borders of Turkey and all other countries (including Greece and Republic of Cyprus). The international law is above everything else. Therefore Greece has no claims over any Turkish territory.

However Turkey does not accept her self these international laws and she violates them by illegally occupying part of the sovereign Republic of Cyprus.

If you can justify the illegal occupation of Cyprus by Turkey, it would be much easier to justify the return of parts of Asia Minor to Greece. This is why I ask from the Turks to respect international law. If they don't, when the balance of power will change their non respect to international law will become a boomerang and hunt them.

[zan]

And who did the Greeks get it from? The Turkic people still have there own nationality, everything else is just Greek

[Viewpoint]

I am coming to the conclusion that Cypro will never be solved.
It will not be solved because we are unable to let history be history.
It will not be solved because we are hell bent on hanging onto our ethnic identities and ignoring our common nationality.
It will not be solved because we are too ready to judge each other and too slow in forgiveness.
It will not be solved because we keep talking about Greeks and Turks instead of us,Cypriots.
It will not be solved because our hearts are full of bitterness and revenge instead of love and compassion.
I am coming to the conclusion that Cypro will never be solved.
Most of us in the diaspora will die on foreign soil longing to return to the source...

Very well said I have been saying this for a very long time, more and more Cypriots over the coming years will realize that we are trying to put a square peg in a round hold. It just wont work, there is no vision will or real desire to reunite its all a matter of scoring points of the other community and playing the blame game. We deserve what we have.

[Piratis]

there is no vision will or real desire to reunite its all a matter of scoring points of the other community and playing the blame game. We deserve what we have.

Viewpoint, when thieves like you keep illegally our properties of course you have no vision to reunite. You want partition, what you always wanted, in order to keep what you stole from us. And no, you do not deserve it.

If the Cyprus Problem was not you forcing your dream on us (partition) but we forcing our dream on you (union with Greece) would you still say: "We deserve what we have"? I am sure you wouldn't.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis if that was the case and I had the opportunity to negotiate then ı would do everything possible to get back to the table and work out a solution.
The fact that we do not do this supports my arguement that we are not capable nor do we have the vision or desire to resolve shit...excuse my french.

I am not a thief could you kindly be civil and stop accusing me.

[Piratis]

I will repeat to you what I said in another thread regarding "negotiations":

If we wanted to change the 1960 agreements with negotiations it should be done like this: For everything we give up you should give up something of equivalent value. In the end no side should be worst or better off. If we can not agree, then the result is no change to what has already been agreed, and not the illegality that you forced on us.

However the kind of negotiations that you want are the ones that you only take and we only give, and if you are not satisfied with what you got from us you simply continue forcing what you want. These are not fair negotiations my friend.

The only thing you keep saying is "negotiations". Sure. But why you don't answer to the arguments here yourself? Why don't you tell us your opinion in what I propose?

Is it maybe because you are ashamed to express your opinion here since you really have no arguments against the very sensible things I propose?

Would expressing your own opinion reveal your racist and hostile attitude against Greek Cypriots and for this reason you would rather have your leaders do this dirty job behind closed doors?

Here is my proposal again:

Today Turkey is illegally occupying Cyprus and this occupation violates the human rights of 1000s of people. UN resolutions call for the respect of sovereignty of RoC and the withdrawal of all foreign troops, and ECHR rulings confirm that refugees should be allowed to return to their own homes.
What I propose is respect to the human and democratic rights of everybody, equality of all Cypriots without any kind of discrimination based on their race, religion, language, sex etc, and either the return to legality or a new constitution based on the the constitution of any other EU country.

Note 1: I did not blame anybody because of the past, since I ask for the punishment of nobody and the respect of the human and democratic rights of everybody.

Note 2: I make no racist distinction between Greek, Turkish or other Cypriot. All Cypriots should have all their rights regardless of their race.

Note 3: What I propose is based solely on universally accepted principles. I ask for a constitution based on any other EU country (the choice is yours), and not for something completely different tailored on my needs and in violation of the human rights of others.

[Viewpoint]

You are reading but not understanding what I am saying due to your misconceptions and anger for TCs, I said to achieve what you continually demand eg retrun of refugees, removal of troops, settlers etc, you have to negotiate with us, the other side. This notion you have of us taking and notgiving is rubbish get over it, compromise will have to be made by both sides.

Is it so difficult to understand? you have to rid yourself of the bad attitude of getting back, seeking vegence against us, your posts reek of anger and venom which clouds your evaluation and judgement.

Its obvious TCs want to change the 1960 agreements because however painful this may sound to you, for us those agreements ended in 1963-1974, we have not been part of your country for the last 31 years, and those agreements represent a dark era in our history, dont ask us to go back we would rather stay the way we are. As you are aware the proposed plans are based on the formation of a BBF, of a united Cyprus republic which call for the abolishin of both the "RoC" and the TRNC for a new birth, this in itself will mean those 1960 agreements will end.

I am willing to give up the army
I am willing to reduce number of settlers
I am willing for the maximum number of GC refugees to return
I am willing to live and work with GCs
I am willing for GCs to settle wherever they wish

What are you willing to do Piratis?

[Piratis]

Is it so difficult to understand? you have to rid yourself of the bad attitude of getting back, seeking vegence against us, your posts reek of anger and venom which clouds your evaluation and judgement.

How can asking for human rights and democracy, and a constitution like one of any other EU country equal to "vegence", "anger" and "venom"?

What kind of culture do you have? How can those things be considered negative for you?

Its obvious TCs want to change the 1960 agreements

Those agreements were the compromise. We made huge compromises in those agreements, and the TCs received more than any other minority with them. Why should we make even more compromises? Why should you gain on our loss? We will NEVER allow that. The sooner you realize the better.

I am willing to give up the army
I am willing to reduce number of settlers
I am willing for the maximum number of GC refugees to return
I am willing to live and work with GCs
I am willing for GCs to settle wherever they wish

So what you say is that you will give up nothing that legally belongs to you and instead you will continue the violations against only in a reduced form if we accept the legalization of all the remaining violations?

What are you willing to do Piratis?

Unlike you, I am asking for nothing in addition to the 1960 agreements.

If I was like you my compromises would be:

Instead of ethnically cleansing the whole TC population, I "compromise" to ethnically cleanse only half

Instead of violating all the TCs human rights I "compromise" to violate only half.

I hope you understand how ridiculous you are.

[Sotos]

Viewpoint, why don't you lay your own arguments here? Piratis has some valid points I think. If you want to convince the politicians to negotiate you should call them ... or you think they are reading the forum?

ps. Let me know is you need Paps phone number