Cyprus-Forum.com

[pg]

Guys, Happy New Year!

[Piratis]

You would give any old excuse to hide the illegal activities of the so called "RoC Government".

RoC as so called by the whole world except the terrorist state of Turkey, has not done anything illegal.

Face it, you tried to steal our lands and take away our Human Rights but lost your own. Stop crying over something that you started yourself

We never tried to steal anything from you. You are just farting from your mouth whatever lies they told you to say. The ones who stole are you, and this is confirmed by the UN resolutions and ECHR rulings.

As far as who started it, you choose a point in history that suits you as the start. The beginning is not a point that suits you but the point that the two communities first interacted in Cyprus. This was when you were oppressing us for 300 years. So it is ridiculous for you to claim that we started anything. If you didn't want anything to start you should come to our island and oppress us.

[Alexis]

Alexis, you are a proven to be a liar or one who likes to claim things without knowing the truth. I personally think that you are a liar.

Ok, so what lies are you going to claim now Alexis?

I am also interested to read what other GC's have to say about the sale of TC land sold to third parties.

So you have proof I have lied perhaps? Personally you can think what you like. I'll now use your argument against you. You 'personally think that I am a liar', are you not claiming something there without knowing the truth? If so you are a proven hipocrite. I will refrain from calling you that outright though as I don;t know for sure.
Further, are you asserting that every statement you have made is the absolute truth and that you have never made assertions which you believe to be true but which it turns out are not (or might not be)? Perhaps someone should sift through your messages on this board and see whether this is the case?

Maybe I'm wrong about TC land, perhaps some has been illegally sold off. What is definitely a fact is the existence of some measure of control which aims to protect TC land from being sold off. To this end, any TC refugee land sold off is 'illegally' sold off. Does the TRNC class refugee land sold off to foreigners as legal or not?

I am not sure exactly what the point of this post was.
Are you trying to start a constructive debate on the property issues in Cyprus or was the aim of your post to discredit me. I had been led to believe that personal attacks were not tolerated on this forum.
If the aim of your post was to discredit me then my advice to you is to not play these pedantic games with people as they can easily be reversed back onto yourself.

[Alexis]

One last thing, wasn't it you who admitted in ATCA that some TC land was also sold or was that another GC using a different name?

Eric,

Having perused some of your previous posts, I feel I should answer the above question from a previous which I had not noticed until today.
I have never been to the ATCA site and Alexis is my real name, so no that was not me.

[zan]

Alexis

I think Eric dayis posts were meant for Alexios who was calling himself Alexis on the ATCA site. I think that it's all Alexios' fault and he should hand himself over to the proper authorities of the TRNC. Don't worry Alexios you will only spend a night in prison. Tell them Matsakis sent you.

[Alexis]

Alexis

I think Eric dayis posts were meant for Alexios who was calling himself Alexis on the ATCA site.

I suspected as much but wasn't sure. Although he did quote me correctly, he merely left out the rest of the post which provided the context in which my statement was made. For the record, myself and Alexios are different people. I invite Alexios to verify this.
Not proof that we're not the same people, I realise...but hey

I think that it's all Alexios' fault and he should hand himself over to the proper authorities of the TRNC. Don't worry Alexios you will only spend a night in prison. Tell them Matsakis sent you.

[Svetlana]

Six to stand trial over TC property fraud

By Menelaos Hadjicostis

SIX people, including a suspended Land Registry Department official and the Pyrgos community leader, will stand trial next week in what is touted as one of the biggest and most complex land scams involving Turkish Cypriot property in Cypriot legal history.
Civil servant Michalis Kalathas and Pyrgos community leader Krinos Theocharous are among six suspects facing 60 charges, including forgery of official documents, corruption and attempts at a cover-up in the bogus sale of 38 donums of Turkish Cypriot-owned prime beachfront property in Tylliria for hundreds of thousands of pounds.

"This is one of the biggest cases in the island’s legal history that will see 150 witnesses being called to testify and 2,000 different pieces of evidence introduced in court," State Prosecutor Savvas Matsas told The Cyprus Weekly.

Starting Wednesday, the trial is expected to wrap up this summer and offshoot civil proceedings could have a significant bearing on the legal fortunes of hundreds of foreign nationals involved in a land-grab of Greek Cypriot-owned property in the occupied north.

The property, abutting the main Massoura to Pyrgos road, belongs to Turkish Cypriots Celal Gilan, Sevdiye Dede and Yasemin Mehmet who inherited it from their parents.

Clouded

However, their claim to the property was clouded by the fact that they had not been registered at the Land Registry Department as the owners.

Matsas said there is evidence to back up the Turkish Cypriots’ claim, including registry records dating back to 1907 showing their parents were in fact the rightful owners of the property.

The defendants are accused of exploiting that confusion and hatching a plan to forge official Land Registry documents so as to certify that the property belongs to two Greek Cypriots.

With those forged certificates, the Greek Cypriots then transferred the property to their grandparents to further obscure the paper trail leading back to them. Subsequently, they sold off the land to the now defunct Greek Cypriot investment company White Knight, a subsidiary of Sharelink.

The August, 2001 sale to White Knight at the height of the Cyprus Stock Exchange frenzy amounted to £972,174 – almost a third more than property’s real value at the time.

Matsas said the defendants are accused of splitting the pay-off, with one getting a Θ163,000 share while the other five each having received around Θ120,000 deposited into private bank accounts.

The Pyrgos community leader along with two community council members are accused of green-lighting the transaction for a share of the money.

The criminal case against the defendants appears to be open-and-shut as the government is keen to demonstrate an iron will in prosecuting any wrong-doing involving the extremely sensitive issue of Turkish Cypriot property in the government-controlled areas – especially so when there is so much at stake over Greek Cypriot property in the Turkish-held north.

Sticky

But where it could get extremely sticky is in the ensuing civil case that would pit the Turkish Cypriots against White Knight lawyers in a court battle over ownership.

A civil trial appears certain as Interior Minister Andreas Christou – who is, by law, the guardian of all Turkish Cypriot property in the government-controlled areas abandoned after the 1974 Turkish invasion – has already fired off a letter to the Attorney General Petros Clerides requesting that his office expedites legal proceedings.

It’s yet undecided whether the civil trial would either run concurrently with criminal proceedings or begin after they conclude.

But it’s awaited with keen interest by observers and lawyers alike on both sides of the divide because of its weighty legal ramifications.

Although the Turkish Cypriots appear to have a cast-iron case, legal circles suggest that White Knight won’t go down without a fight to protect an investment that cost it close to £1m.

It’s expected that White Knight would posit the defence that it purchased the property "in good faith" and is entitled to retain ownership since the transaction was completed with legitimate title deeds - irrespective of claims to be the rightful owner.

Implications



The "in good faith" defence is highly controversial and could have wider legal implications because it is what a British couple will use to fend off possible seizure of their UK property and assets for illegally building a £160,000 villa on Greek Cypriot property in occupied Lapithos.

David and Linda Orams were last year ordered by a Cypriot court to demolish the villa and pay compensation to Meletis Apostolides for illegally using of his property.

The Orams are now appealing their conviction in a British court that will either enforce the Cypriot court’s decision or rule it inapplicable.

That decision will set a key precedent that will certainly shape the legal fortunes of hundreds of Britons and other foreign nationals who have illegally purchased Greek Cypriot property in the north.

It’s for this reason that the Orams’ court defense has been taken up by the law office of Cherie Blair, the wife of British Prime Minister Tony Blair. She is expected to argue that the Orams purchased the property "in good faith" without knowing that it either belonged to someone else, or that title deeds they were issued for it by the illegal "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" were bogus.



Crucial

Timing is crucial on the outcome of these two cases. That’s because an early ruling in the Tylliria civil trial could impact the Orams’ proceedings.

The Tylliria civil trial could be a harbinger for a possible wave of Turkish Cypriot legal action seeking property restitution in domestic and European courts as a potential counterweight to approximately 1,400 Greek Cypriot property cases currently pending against Turkey in the European Court of Human Rights.

The three Turkish Cypriot owners have already signaled their intentions to appeal to the ECHR if they are "treated unjustly".

"We have already begun preparations. We would not let them take away our rights," Turkish Cypriot daily Kibris quoted them as saying.

Emine Erk, president of the Turkish Cypriot Human Rights Foundation, said the Tylliria case is being followed very closely in the north to discern any similarities with the Orams case.

"The Turkish Cypriot owners are preparing to take all necessary legal steps for the return of their property. The ‘good faith’ issue will be a very contentious one," Erk told The Cyprus Weekly.

[Alexios]

Alexis

I think Eric dayis posts were meant for Alexios who was calling himself Alexis on the ATCA site.

I suspected as much but wasn't sure. Although he did quote me correctly, he merely left out the rest of the post which provided the context in which my statement was made. For the record, myself and Alexios are different people. I invite Alexios to verify this.
Not proof that we're not the same people, I realise...but hey

I think that it's all Alexios' fault and he should hand himself over to the proper authorities of the TRNC. Don't worry Alexios you will only spend a night in prison. Tell them Matsakis sent you.

Yes you are right..i did explain on atca though, since our friend eric in his obsession with me, brought up alexis name there also, assuming it was me,with similar nonsense....

[nhowarth]

Regrettably, there is a court case going on at the moment involving the illegal sale of Turkish Cypriot owned property in the Republic.

Here is the article, published in this weeks Cyprus Weekly:

Six to stand trial over TC property fraud
By Menelaos Hadjicostis

SIX people, including a suspended Land Registry Department official and the Pyrgos community leader, will stand trial next week in what is touted as one of the biggest and most complex land scams involving Turkish Cypriot property in Cypriot legal history.

Civil servant Michalis Kalathas and Pyrgos community leader Krinos Theocharous are among six suspects facing 60 charges, including forgery of official documents, corruption and attempts at a cover-up in the bogus sale of 38 donums of Turkish Cypriot-owned prime beachfront property in Tylliria for hundreds of thousands of pounds.

"This is one of the biggest cases in the island’s legal history that will see 150 witnesses being called to testify and 2,000 different pieces of evidence introduced in court," State Prosecutor Savvas Matsas told The Cyprus Weekly.

Starting Wednesday, the trial is expected to wrap up this summer and offshoot civil proceedings could have a significant bearing on the legal fortunes of hundreds of foreign nationals involved in a land-grab of Greek Cypriot-owned property in the occupied north.

The property, abutting the main Massoura to Pyrgos road, belongs to Turkish Cypriots Celal Gilan, Sevdiye Dede and Yasemin Mehmet who inherited it from their parents.

Clouded

However, their claim to the property was clouded by the fact that they had not been registered at the Land Registry Department as the owners.

Matsas said there is evidence to back up the Turkish Cypriots’ claim, including registry records dating back to 1907 showing their parents were in fact the rightful owners of the property.

The defendants are accused of exploiting that confusion and hatching a plan to forge official Land Registry documents so as to certify that the property belongs to two Greek Cypriots.

With those forged certificates, the Greek Cypriots then transferred the property to their grandparents to further obscure the paper trail leading back to them. Subsequently, they sold off the land to the now defunct Greek Cypriot investment company White Knight, a subsidiary of Sharelink.

The August, 2001 sale to White Knight at the height of the Cyprus Stock Exchange frenzy amounted to £972,174 – almost a third more than property’s real value at the time.

Matsas said the defendants are accused of splitting the pay-off, with one getting a Θ163,000 share while the other five each having received around Θ120,000 deposited into private bank accounts.

The Pyrgos community leader along with two community council members are accused of green-lighting the transaction for a share of the money.

The criminal case against the defendants appears to be open-and-shut as the government is keen to demonstrate an iron will in prosecuting any wrong-doing involving the extremely sensitive issue of Turkish Cypriot property in the government-controlled areas – especially so when there is so much at stake over Greek Cypriot property in the Turkish-held north.

Sticky

But where it could get extremely sticky is in the ensuing civil case that would pit the Turkish Cypriots against White Knight lawyers in a court battle over ownership.

A civil trial appears certain as Interior Minister Andreas Christou – who is, by law, the guardian of all Turkish Cypriot property in the government-controlled areas abandoned after the 1974 Turkish invasion – has already fired off a letter to the Attorney General Petros Clerides requesting that his office expedites legal proceedings.

It’s yet undecided whether the civil trial would either run concurrently with criminal proceedings or begin after they conclude.

But it’s awaited with keen interest by observers and lawyers alike on both sides of the divide because of its weighty legal ramifications.

Although the Turkish Cypriots appear to have a cast-iron case, legal circles suggest that White Knight won’t go down without a fight to protect an investment that cost it close to £1m.

It’s expected that White Knight would posit the defence that it purchased the property "in good faith" and is entitled to retain ownership since the transaction was completed with legitimate title deeds - irrespective of claims to be the rightful owner.

Implications

The "in good faith" defence is highly controversial and could have wider legal implications because it is what a British couple will use to fend off possible seizure of their UK property and assets for illegally building a £160,000 villa on Greek Cypriot property in occupied Lapithos.

David and Linda Orams were last year ordered by a Cypriot court to demolish the villa and pay compensation to Meletis Apostolides for illegally using of his property.

The Orams are now appealing their conviction in a British court that will either enforce the Cypriot court’s decision or rule it inapplicable.

That decision will set a key precedent that will certainly shape the legal fortunes of hundreds of Britons and other foreign nationals who have illegally purchased Greek Cypriot property in the north.

It’s for this reason that the Orams’ court defense has been taken up by the law office of Cherie Blair, the wife of British Prime Minister Tony Blair. She is expected to argue that the Orams purchased the property "in good faith" without knowing that it either belonged to someone else, or that title deeds they were issued for it by the illegal "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" were bogus.

Crucial

Timing is crucial on the outcome of these two cases. That’s because an early ruling in the Tylliria civil trial could impact the Orams’ proceedings.

The Tylliria civil trial could be a harbinger for a possible wave of Turkish Cypriot legal action seeking property restitution in domestic and European courts as a potential counterweight to approximately 1,400 Greek Cypriot property cases currently pending against Turkey in the European Court of Human Rights.

The three Turkish Cypriot owners have already signaled their intentions to appeal to the ECHR if they are "treated unjustly".

"We have already begun preparations. We would not let them take away our rights," Turkish Cypriot daily Kibris quoted them as saying.

Emine Erk, president of the Turkish Cypriot Human Rights Foundation, said the Tylliria case is being followed very closely in the north to discern any similarities with the Orams case.

"The Turkish Cypriot owners are preparing to take all necessary legal steps for the return of their property. The ‘good faith’ issue will be a very contentious one," Erk told The Cyprus Weekly.

[Main_Source]

Lets hope the 6 are found guilty so Talat can be taught a lesson about morals.