Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...Grivas had a brother who did not fight with him in EOKA B; says a lot, i think.

[Sotos]

Erolz, when those people you quoted talk about secession they obviously talk about people who have a specific territory where they are already the majority and which could form a new country. They are obviously not considering secession via ethnic cleansing and taking other people's properties. There is a huge difference between say Scotland, Kurdistan, Chechnya or Catalonia seceding, and partitioning Cyprus by ethnically cleansing a territory from 80% of its population.

Such consideration is all that I have argued was 'due' to the TC community from the GC community as the ending of British colonial rule came and was what was not given.

In this thread at least you never made that argument. You insisted that enosis was flat out not our right. If you had said what you said now we wouldn't be arguing because I have already told you in the past that I accept that we were inconsiderate to the wishes, fears etc of the TCs and I accepted that this was wrong. So can you stop bringing this point up constantly? As you can see not even the experts agree on the specifics. I see enosis as the right of the Cypriot people, if only over 50% of Cypriots (including TCs) would vote in favor of it, and accepting that even in the case of enosis we should have considered the wishes of TCs. And even if your view is a bit different than mine it shouldn't be such a huge deal since not even the experts can agree and in any case it wouldn't matter since nobody is arguing in favor of enosis today and we would gladly accept a fair solution with a true-independence that would explicitly prohibit enosis. As you said for an independent Cyprus we need to emphasize what we have in common, so lets top arguing about what seems to be a minor difference on something which is in any case irrelevant in our era!

[Lordo]

its very simple boy. tcs have a veto which makes them politically equal. take your pick. either you accept tcs as politically equal or you take your bit and do as you wish with it. nobody is stopping ya.

[Sotos]

its very simple boy. tcs have a veto which makes them politically equal. take your pick. either you accept tcs as politically equal or you take your bit and do as you wish with it. nobody is stopping ya.

Today TCs have no veto and they have no representation whatsoever... let alone being politically equal. We control part of our "bit" and we reserve our rights for the rest of our "bit". What do you have? The north part of Cyprus is controlled by Turkey, not by you. You are stupid if you think you can get something better than what you got in 1959. In fact if you asked us to return to those agreements we would barely accept it. The worst case scenario is worst for you than it is for us. Turkey will fully incorporate occupied Cyprus and your choice will be between living under some Islamic dictatorship or use your RoC passports to escape to the free areas or elsewhere in EU without any special rights whatsoever. Sorry mate but we are calling your bluff... in this game of poker between Cyprus, Turkey and the TCs, you are going to be the biggest losers.

[erolz66]

You insisted that enosis was flat out not our right.

Clearly I must have done something that has given you this impression, though to be honest I remain unclear exactly what it was I said that gave you this impression.

If you had said what you said now we wouldn't be arguing because I have already told you in the past that I accept that we were inconsiderate to the wishes, fears etc of the TCs and I accepted that this was wrong. So can you stop bringing this point up constantly?

I bring it up because it is for me personally the core of the issue. If you say to me you agree that GC acting not as Cypriots regardless of the type of Cypriot they are, but acting in ways that are solely defined by their ethnic differences to TC, solely by their Greekness, will never do so without any need to consider the wishes of TC who are not Greek, if they can get 'over 50%', then we are done. I will in turn agree to a unitary Cyprus with no bi zonality or Bi communality etc etc. However when you say to me that GC have an absolute democratic right to impose on my community in Cyprus that is not Greek, even things that are solely defined by your Greekness, without any requirement to consider the wishes of the TC community, just because there are more of you, well that is then why I need and require 'special protections'. That is the whole point I am making.

As you said for an independent Cyprus we need to emphasize what we have in common, so lets top arguing about what seems to be a minor difference on something which is in any case irrelevant in our era!

I do not think it is irrelevant to the 'now', not in terms of the concepts of can / should a GC numerical majority be able to seek for all Cypriots things that are defined solely by their Greekness alone, without having to pay any regard to the wishes of the TC community. For me that question is still at the core of what I need in order to not require any 'special' provisions fro my community.

Having said all that I would work with any Cypriot to emphasise and strengthen and reinforce our commonality as Cypriots and stop arguing about differences and indeed have done this on many occasions.

[erolz66]

its very simple boy. tcs have a veto which makes them politically equal. take your pick. either you accept tcs as politically equal or you take your bit and do as you wish with it. nobody is stopping ya.

Here I am afraid I do fundamentally disagree with you Lordo. I do not believe the TC need or should have as a community a generic veto within Cyprus at all. As far as we should have such it should be limited only for those issues where what you want or not want is not defined by personal choice regardless of the type of Cypriot you are but that is solely defined by what kind of Cypriot you are alone. Only in these kinds of cases should the TC have a separate and equal voice imo. That is, only if GC choose to act a Greeks and solely because of their Greekness, should TC have a right to separate consideration as Cypriots who are not Greek.

[Lordo]

its very simple boy. tcs have a veto which makes them politically equal. take your pick. either you accept tcs as politically equal or you take your bit and do as you wish with it. nobody is stopping ya.

Today TCs have no veto and they have no representation whatsoever... let alone being politically equal. We control part of our "bit" and we reserve our rights for the rest of our "bit". What do you have? The north part of Cyprus is controlled by Turkey, not by you. You are stupid if you think you can get something better than what you got in 1959. In fact if you asked us to return to those agreements we would barely accept it. The worst case scenario is worst for you than it is for us. Turkey will fully incorporate occupied Cyprus and your choice will be between living under some Islamic dictatorship or use your RoC passports to escape to the free areas or elsewhere in EU without any special rights whatsoever. Sorry mate but we are calling your bluff... in this game of poker between Cyprus, Turkey and the TCs, you are going to be the biggest losers.

read your constitution boy. till it is changes the veto is there. the fact that we have not used it is neither here nor there. it is everywhere

[miltiades]

Surely the " constitution" is now null and void following the Turkish invasion of 1974 and the division of the island. For me there is but one solution. Tell Turkey, tell Greece to get lost and let the Cypriot people live in peace and harmony,.

[Lordo]

Surely the " constitution" is now null and void following the Turkish invasion of 1974 and the division of the island. For me there is but one solution. Tell Turkey, tell Greece to get lost and let the Cypriot people live in peace and harmony,.

no milti - till it is scrapped it is in place. that is how the international law works. to remove it you would need the agreement of all 5 parties. this is not some marbles games in the back streets of nocosia.

invasion as you call it was actually took 5 days before by the greak army. it makes no difference.

[Maximus]

its very simple boy. tcs have a veto which makes them politically equal. take your pick. either you accept tcs as politically equal or you take your bit and do as you wish with it. nobody is stopping ya.

Today TCs have no veto and they have no representation whatsoever... let alone being politically equal. We control part of our "bit" and we reserve our rights for the rest of our "bit". What do you have? The north part of Cyprus is controlled by Turkey, not by you. You are stupid if you think you can get something better than what you got in 1959. In fact if you asked us to return to those agreements we would barely accept it. The worst case scenario is worst for you than it is for us. Turkey will fully incorporate occupied Cyprus and your choice will be between living under some Islamic dictatorship or use your RoC passports to escape to the free areas or elsewhere in EU without any special rights whatsoever. Sorry mate but we are calling your bluff... in this game of poker between Cyprus, Turkey and the TCs, you are going to be the biggest losers.

read your constitution boy. till it is changes the veto is there. the fact that we have not used it is neither here nor there. it is everywhere

Make no mistake,

Most TC's wanted Taksim back then or an apartheid over the GC's or colonial rule. Most TC's want Taksim or an apartheid today or some form of colonial rule over the GC's. it does not matter what they say, "i am Cypriot", because they do as the Turk does.

They dont hold the flag of the republic, they hold a carbon copy flag of a Turkish republic and that is their little bit. Seperate from Cypriot, but would gladly extort the GC's from wherever they can and keep the Gc's out of a portion of their country and property.. This is not Cypriot, they only say they are but really, they are simply Turks who abuse Cyprus and the real Cypriots with their Cypriot passports that they should not have got in the first place and the Turkish military machine.

They are not Cypriots, they are colonialist's.

Just read that plonker Lordo, he tells it.