Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

No No,

The TC want a GC negotiator that will accept your apartheid, theft and demands for disproportionate rights at the GC's expense, isnt it?

Your lies and propoganda doesnt wash and will become your demise. This is what I am saying.

All I personally want is an acceptance that GC alone pursuing desires that were defined by their 'Greekness', defined by their difference from me as a Cypriot that is not Greek, and that sought a future for Cyprus were Cyprus was not to be ruled by Cypriots, were not legitimately speaking in the name of a unitary Cypriot people. That is it. If I believed that the majority of GC accepted this , I would personally support and even strive to achieve moving directly from where we are today to a unitary Cyprus with no bizonaliy, no bicommunaility tomorrow. If wanting this is going to be my demise then so be it. I personally think your continued refusal to grant such is as likely to be your continued demise as it it ours.

[Oceanside50]

Turkey is on the path to getting proper fckd and the TC's will get obliterated if they dont drop their foolishness before this happens.

You will see how quickly the TC will accept democracy and the rule of law or choose to jump on to inflatable dinghis with sponge filled life jackets.

The TC community survived the attempts before 74 and the arrival of any Turkish force beyond the 400 allowed under the constitution to be driven from their homeland and into the sea. We will I believe survive any future such attempts even if it comes to pass that Turkey disintegrates. You keep clinging to your vain hopes, and leave the Cypriots to keep to the hard work and effort of negotiating an agreement that both sides can accept.

The RoC was basically blackmailed with a gun held to Makarios' head and the rest of Cyprus to accept a BBF solution..I would suggest that political dexterity has held the RoC from accepting such a plan, in the hopes that the TC would come out of the 1950's, where apartheid and ethnic segregation were the norm, sooner or later.

This what the TCTurkey want....a segregative, apartheid enclave where they can legally deny rights to EU citizens as they see fit.. An enclave where they can legislate racism and deny citizens of the EU their full rights, such as free movement,.the freedom of use of their property, free speech, due process of law, and many other restrictions due to their ethnic background and religion.

This is what the RoC wants...All civil
rights to be respected.

Who do you think will win in the end in a Western oriented EU? Rights or no rights?

[Maximus]

No No,

The TC want a GC negotiator that will accept your apartheid, theft and demands for disproportionate rights at the GC's expense, isnt it?

Your lies and propoganda doesnt wash and will become your demise. This is what I am saying.

All I personally want is an acceptance that GC alone pursuing desires that were defined by their 'Greekness', defined by their difference from me as a Cypriot that is not Greek, and that sought a future for Cyprus were Cyprus was not to be ruled by Cypriots, were not legitimately speaking in the name of a unitary Cypriot people. That is it. If I believed that the majority of GC accepted this , I would personally support and even strive to achieve moving directly from where we are today to a unitary Cyprus with no bizonaliy, no bicommunaility tomorrow. If wanting this is going to be my demise then so be it. I personally think your continued refusal to grant such is as likely to be your continued demise as it it ours.

This does not make any sense.

Your part of an ethnic minority. The difference is that your history (centuries of it) includes invasion, theft apartheid and oppressing Greeks and Cypriots because of their difference and you come out with this crap?

Who do you think you are?

[GreekIslandGirl]

... If wanting this is going to be my demise then so be it..

You have no right to demand or expect anything other than democracy and human rights as any other individual.

To start off from the racist pursuit you are following of demanding "identity" changes to suit you (who after all might tomorrow turn round and decide he is British again, since that's where he was born and where one of his motherland's is) reeks of anachronistic imperialism. You should be confined to the dustbin of history.

[Maximus]

... If wanting this is going to be my demise then so be it..

You have no right to demand or expect anything other than democracy and human rights as any other individual.

This is what he and the TC at large fail to comprehend.

They will demand anything or everything but this, which is definately not Cypriot.

The dustbin of history is certainly where they are heading towards. Slowly but surely, the TC's will become "extinct" and forgotten.

[erolz66]

The RoC was basically blackmailed with a gun held to Makarios' head and the rest of Cyprus to accept a BBF solution..

Makarios believed that GC alone could, after the end of British Colonial rule, achieve the union of Cyprus with Greece and do so in the name of the right of self determination of a unitary Cypriot people. He tried to do so in the name of of a unitary Cypriot people because such was a basis for achieving these aims without having to pay any consideration to the wishes of the TC community in Cyprus. However the desire for Cyprus to NOT be ruled by Cypriots, but to be ruled by Greece, was not and is not seen as a legitimate desire for SELF determination of a CYPRIOT people because it was a desire for Cyprus to NOT be ruled by Cypriots. This is why external powers blocked the achieving of enosis - because it was not a legitimate expression of the right to self determination of a Cypriot people.

I understand that you wish to cast the Cyprus problem as it exists today as being one merely of TC and Turkeys desire to steal from and oppress and deny rights from GC but if you are to look at history honestly then such a characterisation of the problem can be seen for what it is. Partial and biased.

You do not have to agree that the desire for enosis on the part of GC was not a valid expression of the right of self determination (the right to rule one selves, the right to not be ruled by others) of a Cypriot people but was in fact the will of the GC community but to try and deny there is any logic and sense in the claim at all, well that to me is to live in denial.

Cypriots had a right to struggle to end British Colonial rule. GC had a right to struggle for the union of Cyprus with Greece for themselves. GC did not have a right to impose the union of Cyprus with Greece on TC with no regard for TC wishes what so ever. TC had a right to struggle to resist such an imposition on them.

[Maximus]

The RoC was basically blackmailed with a gun held to Makarios' head and the rest of Cyprus to accept a BBF solution..

Makarios believed that GC alone could, after the end of British Colonial rule, achieve the union of Cyprus with Greece and do so in the name of the right of self determination of a unitary Cypriot people. He tried to do so in the name of of a unitary Cypriot people because such was a basis for achieving these aims without having to pay any consideration to the wishes of the TC community in Cyprus. However the desire for Cyprus to NOT be ruled by Cypriots, but to be ruled by Greece, was not and is not seen as a legitimate desire for SELF determination of a CYPRIOT people because it was a desire for Cyprus to NOT be ruled by Cypriots. This is why external powers blocked the achieving of enosis - because it was not a legitimate expression of the right to self determination of a Cypriot people.

I understand that you wish to cast the Cyprus problem as it exists today as being one merely of TC and Turkeys desire to steal from and oppress and deny rights from GC but if you are to look at history honestly then such a characterisation of the problem can be seen for what it is. Partial and biased.

You do not have to agree that the desire for enosis on the part of GC was not a valid expression of the right of self determination (the right to rule one selves, the right to not be ruled by others) of a Cypriot people but was in fact the will of the GC community but to try and deny there is any logic and sense in the claim at all, well that to me is to live in denial.

Cypriots had a right to struggle to end British Colonial rule. GC had a right to struggle for the union of Cyprus with Greece for themselves. GC did not have a right to impose the union of Cyprus with Greece on TC with no regard for TC wishes what so ever. TC had a right to struggle to resit such an imposition on them.

This is false, there was no TC at that time, just colonialist and Ottoman remnants conspiring together and suppressing the will of the majority of Cypriots. What should have happened was what the majority wanted and the Ottoman remnants should have been repatriated back to Turkey like they were from everywhere else in the disintegrated Ottoman empire.

You would otherwise just be a Turkish national today without this brainwashing and problem.

[erolz66]

This is false, there was no TC at that time, just colonialist and Ottoman remnants conspiring together and suppressing the will of the majority of Cypriots.

Of course if you choose to deny that TC are Cypriots at all, then your case has some validity. However if you think the 'weight of international law and justice and civility' is on your side as far as you seek to declare that TC are NOT Cypriots and only GC are Cypriots, then you are back in the land of waiting for the prophesied 'great Hellenic unicorn' to rise from the sea and destroy all the enemies of creation of a greater Hellenic empire.

The rest of the world does NOT consider TC to be 'lesser' Cypriots, not Cypriots and so on. Not countries, not courts not anyone. YOU choose to believe this and in doing so you limit the options for the Cyprus and you seek to continue the ideologies that have played such a large part in getting Cyprus to where it is today. You can choose to do this but doing so whilst also believing that you are on the historical side of 'civility' is to live in denial as far as I am concerned. Claiming that TC are not Cypriots is not to be on the side of 'civility'.

[supporttheunderdog]

The RoC was basically blackmailed with a gun held to Makarios' head and the rest of Cyprus to accept a BBF solution..

Makarios believed that GC alone could, after the end of British Colonial rule, achieve the union of Cyprus with Greece and do so in the name of the right of self determination of a unitary Cypriot people. He tried to do so in the name of of a unitary Cypriot people because such was a basis for achieving these aims without having to pay any consideration to the wishes of the TC community in Cyprus. However the desire for Cyprus to NOT be ruled by Cypriots, but to be ruled by Greece, was not and is not seen as a legitimate desire for SELF determination of a CYPRIOT people because it was a desire for Cyprus to NOT be ruled by Cypriots. This is why external powers blocked the achieving of enosis - because it was not a legitimate expression of the right to self determination of a Cypriot people.

I understand that you wish to cast the Cyprus problem as it exists today as being one merely of TC and Turkeys desire to steal from and oppress and deny rights from GC but if you are to look at history honestly then such a characterisation of the problem can be seen for what it is. Partial and biased.

You do not have to agree that the desire for enosis on the part of GC was not a valid expression of the right of self determination (the right to rule one selves, the right to not be ruled by others) of a Cypriot people but was in fact the will of the GC community but to try and deny there is any logic and sense in the claim at all, well that to me is to live in denial.

with an attitude like this there will never be a settlement where by here is a risk the Pseudo state will be recognised by some, (not desirable) while any attempt to achieve Enosis could result in further military action by Turkey. Again not what I desire. Indeed From day 1 Enosis was always going to result in Turkish action to secure their Southern Coast, a lesson from the past NOT learned.

Cypriots had a right to struggle to end British Colonial rule. GC had a right to struggle for the union of Cyprus with Greece for themselves. GC did not have a right to impose the union of Cyprus with Greece on TC with no regard for TC wishes what so ever. TC had a right to struggle to resit such an imposition on them.

This is false, there was no TC at that time, just colonialist and Ottoman remnants conspiring together and suppressing the will of the majority of Cypriots. What should have happened was what the majority wanted and the Ottoman remnants should have been repatriated back to Turkey like they were from everywhere else in the disintegrated Ottoman empire.

You would otherwise just be a Turkish national today without this brainwashing and problem.

[Maximus]

This is false, there was no TC at that time, just colonialist and Ottoman remnants conspiring together and suppressing the will of the majority of Cypriots.

Of course if you choose to deny that TC are Cypriots at all, then your case has some validity. However if you think the 'weight of international law and justice and civility' is on your side as far as you seek to declare that TC are NOT Cypriots and only GC are Cypriots, then you are back in the land of waiting for the prophesied 'great Hellenic unicorn' to rise from the sea and destroy all the enemies of creation of a greater Hellenic empire.

The rest of the world does NOT consider TC to be 'lesser' Cypriots, not Cypriots and so on. Not countries, not courts not anyone. YOU choose to believe this and in doing so you limit the options for the Cyprus and you seek to continue the ideologies that have played such a large part in getting Cyprus to where it is today. You can choose to do this but doing so whilst also believing that you are on the historical side of 'civility' is to live in denial as far as I am concerned. Claiming that TC are not Cypriots is not to be on the side of 'civility'.

You consider yourselves to be a cut above the Cypriots though dont you?

You see the difference between me and you is that I am talking about democracy, the rule of law and justice for everyone and you are talking BS. Your ideology for Cyprus belongs nowhere in Europe, it is only a figment of the Turkish imagination..

If you became Turkish nationals well before the 1950's, there would be no problem and you wouldnt be so brainwashed about Cyprus and your identity today.