Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Miltiades:

S&P, like other credit agencies, gives an indication to the entire financial world as to a country's ' standing in attracting investment.

Is this the same S&P that had Lehman Bros with an AAA rating the day before it went bankrupt. The same S&P that gave Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac the same AAA ratings when they had toxic mortgage account’s that ran into billions? As I said these credit agencies work in the interests of their customers ........... the Banking system.

Banks are the most important institutions in any nation on this planet. Like or not no nation can thrive in the economic arena without a strong banking sector. A nation can survive without any industry, but can not survive without the banking world.

But if you have no industry what do you invest in? The markets, through these Investment Banks? What do they produce NOTHING ....... they manipulate numbers in a computer on the laws of chaos and probability ...... to you and me that’s called guess work! Do you really believe this is the essential sector that makes the real economy work? It makes the financial sector work nothing else!

Which banks are you talking about...... Commercial or Investment banks? Commercial banks are essential for the services they can provide for the real economy. They are a part of the process of wealth creation and are an integral part of the manufacturing, wealth creating economy.

Investment banks are the creators of nothing but problems for all of us! They do not reflect what is happening in the real economy and they are no more important than the Casino’s in Las Vegas and Monte Carlo are to the world economy. They produce nothing and do not support wealth creation ...... they turn money, into more money, into more money into more money .......... nothing else.

Listen to the Radio or watch the TV, they are all on about the stock markets, bond markets, commodities markets, currency markets etc.etc. It is a fairy tale world totally divorced from reality. Think about what they are talking about ..... the financial system ..... certainly not the economy. It is a huge gambling system!

Ask yourself a simple question;

What is a share? Answer : it is a receipt for a payment made to a company when an investor gave them money ..... note, GIVE not lend, it is not even an IOU. The Investment banks then play with these pieces of paper using their markets, causing the perceived value of this receipt to rise and fall and every time that happens some bankers somewhere make a few millions for themselves and their clients. It does not create real jobs or real wealth!

What effect does the share value have on the Company the original investor made the payment to? Nothing .... it carries on producing and selling what it produces and sells ...... i.e. it carries on creating real wealth. The Markets simply alter the perceived value of the company, but what happens if you try to sell those shares at their market value ..... the price plummets. Trading on the shares of just a single company can happen at the rate of millions of trades a second. 85% of share transactions in the stock exchanges are now done without human intervention!

Investment banks contribute NOTHING to the economy ...... it’s all just numbers. The EU will use the UK’s reliance on the financial sector to bring the country to its knees .... or at least try. They won’t take the commercial banks, only the investment banks. We DON'T need them ..... it is a totally false economy.

IMO: Let Europe have them ...... and get the UK back onto the path of creating real wealth for everyone, not just bank accounting numbers for the few!

Great post!
There is a profit though to those "casino" type financial business and that profit is going to shift to Frankfurt after Brexit.. Will it have the same effects there though? I mean will it destroy the real productive sector of Germany just like it did in the UK? What do you think?

[Tim Drayton]

Rupert Murdoch has recently said that if Johnson backtracked on things said during the referendum campaign, there would be “another bloody revolt”. It seems that Johnson is backtracking a bit from his statement yesterday that free movement will remain in place.

[Paul ZKTV]

Rupert Murdoch has recently said that if Johnson backtracked on things said during the referendum campaign, there would be “another bloody revolt”. It seems that Johnson is backtracking a bit from his statement yesterday that free movement will remain in place.

happy to read that link,please post it here ...
R.murdoch and his wife Jerry Hall who live in the USA is not even a share holder in the newpaper side of NEWS CORP .
all their vision is in 21st Century Fox.

I got to laugh at moving city of london to Frankfurt will hurt Germania
im sure they could do with another 20% GDP
If you take that and the US banks from London ,
can anyone telll me what is left ??

[miltiades]

If you take that and the US banks from London ,
can anyone telll me what is left ??

Our ....national football team of course

[Robin Hood]

On the other hand, I still think the bunch of clowns and buffoons behind the exit campaign have to be put on the spot and told to sort things out.

I take it you don't like Farage...

Correct. I don't like any fascists.

You obviously don't have clue what a fascist is! I don't think Farage has never said he is against immigration per se, what he says he is against is UNCONTROLLED immigration! In that I think he is in step with a very great majority of indigenous 'Englanders' and those who came to the country as immigrants from foreign countries, to work and start businesses in Britain. The EU opened the borders to the riff-raff of Europe many of them from impoverished societies, where theft, political abuse and corruption are rife. Many bring that culture with them and under EU Commission directives we have no right to pack them up and send them back where they came from. They can murder and rape but we have no right to 'export' them to their country of origin ...... crazy ..... bloody stupid!

Your views are generally ill-informed and extremist! You have all the tendencies needed to be a fascist! The UK always has and always will, accept immigrants, whether for economic reasons or on humanitarian grounds but it should be our government that makes that decision not a bunch of interfering, over paid, over privileged, faceless, unknown, unelected bureaucrats holed up in another European capital.

At the moment the Poles are all against what the UK has done. The one thing they have no concept of YET is what will happen when they have to convert from the Zloty, to the Euro. Cyprus was OK until then and so was Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and all these Eastern block countries will have to eventually comply ..... because this is part of the grand plan for a Federal Europe.

[Tim Drayton]

Rupert Murdoch has recently said that if Johnson backtracked on things said during the referendum campaign, there would be “another bloody revolt”. It seems that Johnson is backtracking a bit from his statement yesterday that free movement will remain in place.

happy to read that link,please post it here ...
R.murdoch and his wife Jerry Hall who live in the USA is not even a share holder in the newpaper side of NEWS CORP .
all their vision is in 21st Century Fox.

I got to laugh at moving city of london to Frankfurt will hurt Germania
im sure they could do with another 20% GDP
If you take that and the US banks from London ,
can anyone telll me what is left ??

You will find it included in the following:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/28/reuters- ... orter.html

Just one thing scares me ... does this mean that Murdoch has already crowned Johnson the next PM? The only thought that cheers me up is it is not really the Sun that holds sway among Conservative party members ... more tabloids like the Mail and Express, and quite a lot of party members are intelligent people who can follow joined-up arguments.

[Tim Drayton]

I got to laugh at moving city of london to Frankfurt will hurt Germania
im sure they could do with another 20% GDP
If you take that and the US banks from London ,
can anyone telll me what is left ??

Also the assertion that the city caused deindustrialisation when London was the world's largest financial centre and the English midlands and north along with central Scotland and south Wales were industrial powerhouses for well over a century when Britannia ruled the waves!

As you see, this referendum has left the UK completely divided and there is no convergence of views whatsoever between the two camps and time alone will show who is in denial. Quite frankly, I still think that Britain can be saved and there is all to play for, and I hope the scenario that permits me to turn round and derive bitter satisfaction by saying, "Told you so" does not come to pass.

[Paul ZKTV]

yes but that over one hundred years ago - all those people were killed in WW1

and its been down to the governments since then

did you know the UK was way behind EUROPE until it joined in 1973

im voting LIB DEM to stay in the EU ..

[Robin Hood]

Pyrpolizer:

There is a profit though to those "casino" type financial business and that profit is going to shift to Frankfurt after Brexit.. Will it have the same effects there though? I mean will it destroy the real productive sector of Germany just like it did in the UK? What do you think?

Yes ,there is a profit ON THE BOOKS .... but that does not translate to wealth.

I don’t believe the banking system destroyed industry in the UK it was corporate greed. They became more interested in profits than people and Thatcher didn’t help when unions started to put up a resistance to her free market, no holds barred economic plan. Whilst she was crushing the unions she was deregulating the banks so that they could make more and more money ...... she failed to realise that jobs and people are wealth ..... banks just make money! Effectively she destroyed wealth in favour of making money!

You tell me ..... how do those numbers the banks pronounce as profits get into the real economy and create wealth? How do they add to GDP ...... they don't create anything! To do that, they have to spend it INTO the economy it is worthless as numbers in a computer. They spend out on outlandish salaries and bonuses which is spent into the economy ..... it’s called ’trickle down economics’. The theory being if they get richer and richer they then spend their money and those further down benefit from their spending. Great in theory but it is not effective in practice.

These bank account numbers are used to buy existing property, they also re-invest in more bonds and shares .......... none of these actions create wealth, they just create more money as static assets it does not enter the real economy.. You then get rapidly rising property prices, a housing bubble and rapidly increasing share and bond markets, more static assets. The bubble (numbers) gets bigger and bigger until it pops.

One thing missing from that ........ where does the money they use come from in the first place? It comes initially from commercial banks making loans to private companies, corporations, individuals or governments. They create money (numbers) from nothing as debt, when they buy bonds from the Government, Pension funds and financial institutions.

This is the way ALL (98%) money is created.If they move to Paris or Frankfurt, it will be French and German banks that will provide the funding ...... by creating loans (DEBT!). Presumably they will have to settle all their debts in the UK before they can do that.

When The Markets collapse it will be French and German commercial banks that will take the hit ..... not British Banks. But many of these investment banks are not British banks but US banks and they came to the UK because the regulation was more lax than in the US and EU .... but I don’t see that aspect being mentioned in the media.

This is why I see this Brexit vote in a positive light, it is the first step in isolating the casino investment banks from the commercial banks. The next step is to transfer the creation of ALL money from commercial banks to the Sate. This will result in a debt free, interest free supply of money for government. It will also be able to pay off the Sterling debt overnight. The commercial banks will continue to make loans as they do now but the Central Bank will be their source ...... no longer will commercial banks create money out if thin air, they will now have a liability to repay to the lender ..... The State.

I doubt it will have very much effect on Germany’s industrial might ...... their industrialists think very differently than their ilk in the UK. German industry realised years ago that their strength was in the people who created the wealth and worked with the unions to provide benefits we in the UK could only dream of and industrial stability. Germans will buy equipment from a German manufacturer in preference to an equal but cheaper offer from a foreign supplier. Their theory is .... it creates German jobs for German people and it has been successful ..... up until recently!

They are now shifting these jobs abroad to follow the UK/US concept of boosting profits by using cheaper labour abroad. Directly the jobless numbers start climbing things may change quite dramatically.

Which ever way you approach the economics it always comes back to the creation of the basic resource .......... numbers on paper.(MONEY) Once you grasp that principal you very soon see what an iniquitous and criminally corrupt system it is.

[Lordo]

I got to laugh at moving city of london to Frankfurt will hurt Germania
im sure they could do with another 20% GDP
If you take that and the US banks from London ,
can anyone telll me what is left ??

Also the assertion that the city caused deindustrialisation when London was the world's largest financial centre and the English midlands and north along with central Scotland and south Wales were industrial powerhouses for well over a century when Britannia ruled the waves!

As you see, this referendum has left the UK completely divided and there is no convergence of views whatsoever between the two camps and time alone will show who is in denial. Quite frankly, I still think that Britain can be saved and there is all to play for, and I hope the scenario that permits me to turn round and derive bitter satisfaction by saying, "Told you so" does not come to pass.

i cannot see how the mps will vote for brexit. before this can begin there will have to be an election becasue the majority if mps do not suport brexit. people will have one last say before it happens.