Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

I see. As far as I know the presence of the Turkish army (and therewith Turkey being a guarantor) is one of the (to me logical) breaking points in the ongoing unification talks anyway (together with the property issue). I'm not an expert (yet, hehe...) but to me it seems that unification will never happen when the Turkish army doesn't leave the island.

You are far from expert For one thing all you know are the public statements which do not reflect the reality. First of all this "unification" name is intentionally misleading. It was created to mislead the Greek Cypriots, because most of them think of the word "unification" as meaning "liberation". But this so called "unification" that is negotiated now has nothing with the liberation of our lands from Turkish occupation. On the contrary, such agreement would be an agreement for partition which would make the north part of Cyprus officially Turkish with our signature and take away from us our rights to our lands.

[GreekIslandGirl]

I see the point you're making, but what I wonder is what your standing point is on possible unification in a federal state. The constitution you mentioned didn't work for (as I would say) obvious reasons, but with a federal stated based on Zwitserland or Belgium, where both communities have their regions on which some autonomy can be applied, but the country functions as one, would that be a problem for you?

So, not some 'student' doing a 'thesis' at all ...

Come again? I'm just asking a question, what's so strange about that?

The question you asked was "would that be a problem for you?" - Seems you have 'a solution' figured out and are seeking approval for a preset agenda?

(A preset agenda is not what a thesis should be about imho - stay open minded instead of looking for evidence to support what you have already decided. )

[Erwinski]

That's why I'm interested in speaking with all kinds of people and their perspectives, and I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible myself, looking (or at least trying to do so) for the truth in the middle.

Wrong approach. Ever heard of the Middle Ground Fallacy? ( http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... round.html ). That kind of approach encourages extremism. The more extreme you are, the closer to your views you bring that "middle". That is tactic well known by the Turks. If you want to find the truth then you do your research. The "middle ground" approach simply rewards the invaders.

I know about that one, good point though.

[Erwinski]

I see the point you're making, but what I wonder is what your standing point is on possible unification in a federal state. The constitution you mentioned didn't work for (as I would say) obvious reasons, but with a federal stated based on Zwitserland or Belgium, where both communities have their regions on which some autonomy can be applied, but the country functions as one, would that be a problem for you?

Were those regions in Belgium or Switzerland created by ethnic cleansing? The Greek Cypriots have been living in Cyprus for many 1000s of years. The Turkish minority was created in Cyprus during Ottoman rule, just like they created similar minorities in all other Christian territories they occupied (other Greek islands, Greek mainland, Bulgaria etc) and the Turks in Cyprus never lived in a separate region... they have always been a minority spread all over Cyprus. The "north-south" divide was something created in 1974 by means of foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing. Until then the Greek Cypriots were the great majority in the north part of Cyprus as well as every other part. Why should the Turks keep OUR lands as their "Turkish region"? Such thing would be appropriate for Turkey, with the Kurds. The Kurds have been living in Kurdistan even before the arrival of the Turks, and the Kurds are the native majority in South East Turkey.

Ofcourse there's a big difference when you look at how those state came into existence and the bloodiness of the (recent) history on Cyprus. I see your point though and I can well understand the frustration that it brings though.

I wonder, in what way would you like to have 'unification', if you want that at all?

[Erwinski]

I see. As far as I know the presence of the Turkish army (and therewith Turkey being a guarantor) is one of the (to me logical) breaking points in the ongoing unification talks anyway (together with the property issue). I'm not an expert (yet, hehe...) but to me it seems that unification will never happen when the Turkish army doesn't leave the island.

You are far from expert For one thing all you know are the public statements which do not reflect the reality. First of all this "unification" name is intentionally misleading. It was created to mislead the Greek Cypriots, because most of them think of the word "unification" as meaning "liberation". But this so called "unification" that is negotiated now has nothing with the liberation of our lands from Turkish occupation. On the contrary, such agreement would be an agreement for partition which would make the north part of Cyprus officially Turkish with our signature and take away from us our rights to our lands.

I know.

Although I know more than public statements. Unification and liberation are two very different words with very different meanings. It seems to me that this misinterpretation is then only misleading because of, well, misinterpretation?

The last thing you say is something I can well understand that there's difficulties you'd have with that.

[Erwinski]

I see the point you're making, but what I wonder is what your standing point is on possible unification in a federal state. The constitution you mentioned didn't work for (as I would say) obvious reasons, but with a federal stated based on Zwitserland or Belgium, where both communities have their regions on which some autonomy can be applied, but the country functions as one, would that be a problem for you?

So, not some 'student' doing a 'thesis' at all ...

Come again? I'm just asking a question, what's so strange about that?

The question you asked was "would that be a problem for you?" - Seems you have 'a solution' figured out and are seeking approval for a preset agenda?

(A preset agenda is not what a thesis should be about imho - stay open minded instead of looking for evidence to support what you have already decided. )

Well, maybe leave your quick assumptions then...

I have not a solution figured out at all, but the plans that are on the table are basically pretty much like what I mentioned (the federal model). That's why I asked, because such a thing might (might as well not though) become a reality.

I have no agenda at all, why would I? Actually I'm much more interested in other plans and viewpoints, that's why I asking for them right here.

[Maximus]

Turkey and her Turkish "Cypriot" puppets are perpetrators of war crimes against Cyprus and the native Cypriots. They colluded, Turkey invaded the island and ethnically cleansed more than a third of it. thats it in a nutshell.

Now, Turkey and the Turkish "Cypriots" want a "federal" model that resembles more of an institutionalized apartheid. where they have a segregated turkish zone, disporoportionate rights compared to the natives and where Turkey can still have a presence on the island.

The occupation and colonization of Cyprus has to end. In other words, the Turkish army must withdraw and Turkey has to repatriate its settlers back to Turkey. They just have to leave and pay compensation and the "Cyprus problem" would be resolved.

[Jerry]

The occupation and colonization of Cyprus has to end. In other words, the Turkish army must withdraw and Turkey has to repatriate its settler back to Turkey.

Most Cypriots just want a democratic country like the other countries of the EU.

Turkey and the Turkish "Cypriots" want a "federal" model that resembles more of an institutionalized apartheid. where they have a segregated turkish zone, disporoportionate rights compared to the natives and where Turkey can still have a presence.

Turkey and her Turkish "Cypriot" puppets are perpetrators of war crimes against Cyprus and the native Cypriots. thats it in a nutshell.

Absolutely correct but unfortunately Turkey's importance to NATO means that that country appears to get away with ethnic cleansing and illegal colonisation. We may aspire to a more just solution some time in the future but in the meantime Turkey is becoming more entrenched in the north. Turkey's game plan since 1974 has been "accept this solution or the next will be worse"

[GreekIslandGirl]

I see the point you're making, but what I wonder is what your standing point is on possible unification in a federal state. The constitution you mentioned didn't work for (as I would say) obvious reasons, but with a federal stated based on Zwitserland or Belgium, where both communities have their regions on which some autonomy can be applied, but the country functions as one, would that be a problem for you?

So, not some 'student' doing a 'thesis' at all ...

Come again? I'm just asking a question, what's so strange about that?

The question you asked was "would that be a problem for you?" - Seems you have 'a solution' figured out and are seeking approval for a preset agenda?

(A preset agenda is not what a thesis should be about imho - stay open minded instead of looking for evidence to support what you have already decided. )

Well, maybe leave your quick assumptions then...

I have not a solution figured out at all, but the plans that are on the table are basically pretty much like what I mentioned (the federal model). That's why I asked, because such a thing might (might as well not though) become a reality.

I have no agenda at all, why would I? Actually I'm much more interested in other plans and viewpoints, that's why I asking for them right here.

Mine was a minor assumption - yours, in offering what you consider a solution for *both communities* to have *their regions* is an insensitive inference. Built on divide and rule. Your justification that this is a plan *on the table* is absurd. I would wipe that table clean if I were you and find some healthier ingredients with which to make a meal.

[Maximus]

Absolutely correct but unfortunately Turkey's importance to NATO means that that country appears to get away with ethnic cleansing and illegal colonisation. We may aspire to a more just solution some time in the future but in the meantime Turkey is becoming more entrenched in the north. Turkey's game plan since 1974 has been "accept this solution or the next will be worse"

It's very surprising in many respects and also absurd that Turkey and her puppets want to 'reunify' with the native Cypriots. This is not correct logic, it does not make sense to me and many other people.

The occupation and colonization must end and Turkey must withdraw from Cyprus. It really is as simple as that.