Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

Naz Shah made a series of comments (as tweets) and also re-tweeted some other comments about Jews as well as making her stage-catching declarations about the state of Israel being moved to the USA thereby achieving a double whammy (maybe triple) since it is the country she is meant to be representing that put Israel where it is today. As much as I believe the Israelis have every right to be where they are, if they had been given that bigger region a little further north - Anatolia - that would make me even happier. Anyway, I digress ...

She then made a horrendous non-apology - I listened to some of it - sickly and insincere, and so she should go on that basis and stand up for what she believes if she thinks it's worth upholding. Too many two-faced politicians for one more to be around imho.

Whatever Ken is supposed to have said about Hitler remains a mystery to me too. I don't like the man (either man) enough to google and find out.

Of course, the Labour party has become too 'Muslim friendly' and that is a shame as the average Brit is not well represented any more by Labour (but neither are they by any other single party, so there you go).

Reminds me .... they did also have another racist rant by that woman Labour MP a while back but that was permissible because it was anti-white-British. Double standards. But allusions to her charging the taxpayer for hair-straighteners for her Afro locks were outrageous too.

Another day in petty politics.

[Tim Drayton]

Well, nobody has quoted anything that is antisemitic yet. Funny, I have read quite a few pages in the right-wing tabloids and one after the other they take Labour to task for its supposed anitsemitism, yet cannot be bothered to offer one single quote.

Thanks for raising that Ken Livingstone point. Maybe I am intellectually challenged, so could somebody please spell out in simple terms why one man's opinion that Hitler supposedly supported Zionism early in his political career is anti-Semitic. Is it because any sentence containing the word 'Hitler' is automatically deemed to be antisemitic? Anybody who knows anything about Ken Livingstone's political views would realise that he abhors the fascist monster who adopted the name Hitler and who bears prime responsibility for the Nazi Third Reich and Holocaust. Oooops! I have just uttered a sentence with the word 'Hitler' in it. Does that make me antisemitic now? It may not be true, but it makes sense to me that a racist and antisemite like Hitler could support Zionism as a means for getting rid of the Jewish people from German-speaking countries. If you dispute this view, all you have to do is challenge him to quote a source.

[GreekIslandGirl]

OK - curiosity got the better of me and so here's the Ken googled quote:

“It’s completely over the top but it’s not antisemitism. Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 05311.html

I guess he is saying that Hitler was 'sane' at some point?

Or if you support Israel's existence you hate Jews?

[Actually, I think it's all really funny.]

[miltiades]

The country, UK, has lost its marbles !! When a council sends out questionnaires to parents of children as young as four years old asking them the sexual inclination of their little children, when promoting same sex marriages, when political correctness overrides all else, and when finally bloody traffic wardens are elevated to .....Community Support Officers, by the way I hate traffic wardens!!

[Tim Drayton]

OK - curiosity got the better of me and so here's the Ken googled quote:

“It’s completely over the top but it’s not antisemitism. Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 05311.html

I guess he is saying that Hitler was 'sane' at some point?

Or if you support Israel's existence you hate Jews?

[Actually, I think it's all really funny.]

Well, surely when Balfour supported Zionism in the famous Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917 he, too, did so because he thought this would be a solution to the so-called 'Jewish Problem' based on the premise that Jews and non-Jews cannot live together, which is a racist and anti-Semitic viewpoint.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Here's another of Ken's stupid comments:

“I think blurring these two things undermines the importance of antisemitism because a real antisemite doesn’t just hate the Jews in Israel, they hate their Jewish neighbours in Golders Green or Stoke Newington, it’s a physical loathing."

I think he's saying that if you do only "hate the Jews in Israel", then your'e not "a real antisemite". (Ay yay yay!) A real anti-semite hates them all.

What a complete fershtinkiner.

Wish I could be in on that panel that tries to make sense of this.

[GreekIslandGirl]

OK - curiosity got the better of me and so here's the Ken googled quote:

“It’s completely over the top but it’s not antisemitism. Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 05311.html

I guess he is saying that Hitler was 'sane' at some point?

Or if you support Israel's existence you hate Jews?

[Actually, I think it's all really funny.]

Well, surely when Balfour supported Zionism in the famous Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917 he, too, did so because he thought this would be a solution to the so-called 'Jewish Problem' based on the premise that Jews and non-Jews cannot live together, which is a racist and anti-Semitic viewpoint.

The view that certain groups of people couldn't co-exist was quite common (in the past). Isn't this the argument the Turks used to claim part of Cyprus for their lot? To want to gift the Jews their own homeland doesn't necessarily look less favourably on the Jews (as it didn't look less favourably on TCs when Turkey invaded Cyprus to give to TCs) but logically seems to look less favourably on those whose land you took away (e.g. Greeks or Palestinians) to gift to Jews to keep them happy (and safe from Jew-haters). Was Turkey being anti-Turkish by gifting them(selves) the northern part of Cyprus?

That's why one rule for one doesn't necessarily follow that the same rule should be applied without thought to another.

In the case of the Jews, the argument must include the fact they are an ancient people who had a region they could go back to - e.g. when they left Egypt. We have historical records that show they resided around that region.

[miltiades]

Here is a quote from Ken.
" Everyone is bisexual. Almost everyone has the sexual potential for anything.
KEN LIVINGSTONE, speech to Harrow Gay Unity Group, August 18, 1981

So here you have it folks, we are ...all bi, or rather multi-sexual!!

[tsukoui]

As I said Tim, this is pure opportunism by the Tory party and its supporters over the Mayoral election. The following statement by the Jewish Socialists' Group:
http://www.jewishsocialist.org.uk/news/item/statement-on-labours-problem-with-antisemitism-from-the-jewish-socialists-g

Thanks for giving the link to that brilliant article.

Sen hakikaten Kıbrıslı Türk müsün? Ben seni hep Rum bildim. [Sorry for breaking forum rules but I can't resist the temptation to test Tskoui out on something he said on another thread.]

I understand the question, not the statement.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Here's something with which I completely agree that Ken said:

“He didn’t win the election, he became the largest party in 1932, his policy here wasn’t to kill the Jews it was to deport them all to Israel. The simple truth, if you go back and check, that was Hitler’s policy when he first came to power – to move Germany’s Jews to Israel. I denounce that."

Great!

However, isn't that what Naz Shah said? To move the Jews from one place (Israel) to another place (USA). Ethnic cleansing. She was proposing the same as Hitler did! In that sense - she should go! And so should Ken if he is so illogical (and stupid) because it was wrong, denounce-able when Hitler proposed it but according to Ken it was only "over the top and rude" when Naz Shah proposed it and not anti-semitic. Sorry, but for me that was the rub.

- The sort of evil acts Turkey has done time and again!