Cyprus-Forum.com

[Simon]

Even though I am Turkish, I think that the flag of Cyprus should be one similar to the flag of Greece. The island has always had a vast Greek majority and we must respect that. Creating a Cypriot flag with a Greek influence, would be a sign of respect that would be a step forward in Greece-Turkey relations.
Murat Tansel, Turkey

Coming from a logical Turkish person and I couldn't agree more.

[sadik]

So are you saying that if 82% of a nations population vote for something, it should not be given if it offends the other 18%? If this is the case, then what the hell is the whole point of democracy? I am asking for the people of Cyprus to decide by a majority. TCs seem to think it is the minorities that can do whatever they want, including taking 40% of the land and calling it their own, illegally.

Turkish Cypriots are a numerical minority in Cyprus but they are not a political minority. TCs are one of the founding communities of the RoC. In any case, it doesn't make any difference for my arguement. Viewing democracy plainly as the majority vote is a very narrow interpretation. Even in democratic countries, when the majority tries to impose something on the minority that they cannot accept, the result is either opression or riot. So when making democratic decisions, you should not only consider the percentage of the approval, but also how strongly the minority feels and how they will react to it. The minority here can be Turkish Cypriots in case of Enosis, or French farmers who blocked all the roads and stopped life in France in case of farming subsidies, or Greek Cypriot refugees who will not get back their property in a probable solution. Of course, uniting with another country is the most extreme case of these.

By the way, I do not think it's right to take 37% of the land. I don't have a problem with arranging the land proportional to the population.

[sadik]

Even though I am Turkish, I think that the flag of Cyprus should be one similar to the flag of Greece. The island has always had a vast Greek majority and we must respect that. Creating a Cypriot flag with a Greek influence, would be a sign of respect that would be a step forward in Greece-Turkey relations.
Murat Tansel, Turkey

Coming from a logical Turkish person and I couldn't agree more.

I don't agree. In case of a solution, the flag and especially the flag should be something we can all embrace and can proudly carry.

All the nations not only define themselves with what they are, but they also define themselves with what they are not. For the Greek nation, "what they are not" is Turkish. This is somewhat understandable, because the Greeks gained their independence from the Ottomans, which usually is perceived to be Turkish. However, we cannot be expected to carry symbols of Greek nationalism as representing us.

Actually the current Cypriot flag is a beautiful one. It has the olive branch and white background representing peace, and the island of Cyprus which we both love. It does not have a religious reference. I prefer to keep it in case of a solution, or just slightly modify it if a new beginning needs to be emphasized.

I agree, though, that we should honor the Greek history and influence in Cyprus, but through other means.

[Alexios]

Going back to the original topic,I repost my contribution to another forum

QUOTE
I want to try and put the whole thing about EOKA,EOKA B,ENOSIS,Makarios etc into some perspective in simple lunguage.I know nothing about the TMT.
The EOKA struggle headed by Makarios,was a struggle for Enosis.Later on, when it appeared that Enosis was not feasible, Makarios conceded to independence.The leaders apart,most of the original EOKA fighters were extremely young, patriotic people,willing to give their lives for Enosis.Some of them were killed, some were hunged,the majority returned to every day life after 1960 and live between us.During the struggle very few if any Turkish Cypriots were harmed, infact EOKA was very careful not to harm T/Cs.True, traitors were executed as well as some leftists on the excuse of been traitors.I would say the executionists themselves may or may not have known that these leftists were not traitors.
So far so good.This is the side of EOKA that G/Cs learn about in school.The glory side.The sacrifice of Afxentiou and Pallicarides the fighter/poet.....
Then there is the period 1964 up to the creation of EOKA B in 1971 or there about.During the intercommunal conflict of the period,it was obvious that The G/C paramilitary groups would be formed out of the ex EOKA fighters.They had the training and the experience.Politically inmature and naive they would blindly follow any orders in the name of patriotism and Enosis, the idea of which still at the time hung in the air.Then came the formation of EOKA B, a very small group, formed by the same people, but also denounced by the majority of the original EOKA fighters loyal to Makarios as well as the vast majority of the G/C population.
We all know what happened from then onwards...
Whats the situation today?? We still as G/Cs glorify the original EOKA and its dead heroes.We consider EOKA B and the Greek Junta as largely responsible for the tragedy in Cyprus.Enosis, as a result, is not only not feasible but also not the wish of the G/C people except a few dreaming fools..i would place them under 1%.
Those who use the argument that the G/Cs still aspire to ENOSIS are out of reality and i can only guess that the insist so for their own reasons.
And a personal thing.I named my son after an EOKA fighter who was hunged.I am almost certain I would not have done so had he been alive...after all dying on the gallows left those people unscathed from what followed...

[Simon]

Sadik said

By the way, I do not think it's right to take 37% of the land. I don't have a problem with arranging the land proportional to the population.

This is the key part, and I agree with you.

On the flag issue, why does the 'TRNC' flag not stick to the Republic of Cyprus flag then? Why has it created its own flag very similar to Turkey's. I can't help but think that they are the biggest nationalists of all.

I disagree with you on the political minority point. If you are a minority, you are a minority, simple as that. You don't want to accept it because if we join, you want more than has been granted to any minority anywhere in the world. Therefore, we might as well divide for good - 80/20.

Finally, democracy is about the country choosing by a majority. Again, you do not like this, but that is hardly surprising.

[Piratis]

Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots and all Cypriots should be equal without any kind of racial discrimination.

Simon, in democracy you can not ignore the desires of a minority. Those desires, as long as they are within the limits of laws, human rights and democracy, should be accommodated as best as possible.

For this reason a truly independent Cyprus and a neutral flag are things nobody should object to.

[cypezokyli]

this way of thinking will lead us to partition, and i most propably as we are...continue

[Simon]

OK, so a country has a referendum on whether to join the EU. 70% VOTE FOR, 30% VOTE AGAINST.

The country joins the EU. The 30% do not like it and start rioting. What happens? The last thing that happens is that the country does a u-turn.

In fact, I have the perfect example. In the UK, fox-hunting was banned, mainly because the majority of the country was against it. The minority started rioting in London, and even got into the House of Commons to protest. Has the UK allowed fox-hunting again because of the minority?? NO!

I am not saying that we should ignore the TC community. Of course not. But what I am saying is, that in any democratic country, the majority of the people choose, by voting.

[Simon]

OK, so a country has a referendum on whether to join the EU. 70% VOTE FOR, 30% VOTE AGAINST.

The country joins the EU. The 30% do not like it and start rioting. What happens? The last thing that happens is that the country does a u-turn.

In fact, I have the perfect example. In the UK, fox-hunting was banned, mainly because the majority of the country was against it. The minority started rioting in London, and even got into the House of Commons to protest. Has the UK allowed fox-hunting again because of the minority?? NO!

I am not saying that we should ignore the TC community. Of course not. But what I am saying is, that in any democratic country, the majority of the people choose, by voting.

this way of thinking will lead us to partition

Haven't you noticed. LOL. We already have partition.

[Pasha]

Simon, enosis is dead and Cyprus will never join Greece.

Get over it !