Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

It's more important to ask about volumes rather than number of loans.

And 70% non-performing is not precedented anywhere else to my knowledge. That is way over the top. Over half the loans non-performing in Cyprus.

To me that suggests that in Cyprus you did not have Bankers in Cyprus but some idiots who did not know how Banking even works even.

The Banks were going down, it was just a matter of time as to when.

Just to give you an indication of the volumes: He said "Aristo Developers" which is perhaps one of the biggest land developers owes the Bank some billions. If my memory is correct he said 2 billion.He refuses to pay anything saying he doesn't have the money. Hourigan (the new Manager of BOC -he is Irish ) made a International search and found he had the money deposited in foreign Banks.He asked a meeting with him and with that evidence in hand he blackmailed him. It is said that Aristo got the shock of his life- 'αλλαξε εφτα χρωματα".
Now you may go to their web site and see all the projects this company has completed and sold over the years. They are about 100. If you sum up the value of those projects you will see it's about 2 billion. This means the guy has not paid back one single Euro to the Bank and the Banks kept financing him for the next project. The clients HAVE paid him though, the projects are still in the hands of the Bank as security, but the money flew abroad.

About the amount of non performing loans. My friend told me they have so much work every day they can't breath. I asked why, do you have so much work, how's that, do you give so many new loans?? He said no,we have almost no new loans. We are doing RESTRUCTURING all day. They call the client in. He may have 3 loans and pays nothing. They make him a new loan agreement under presumably better terms (lower monthly payment) and then delete the 3 old loans.
As he told me very few of those they do restructuring ever start paying anything. But because there is some time requirement (3 months?) to declare the new loan as non performing, they manage to drop the percentage of non performing from the real 70% to around 55%.

You said our Bankers are idiots. I wouldn't say that. Corrupt yes, but idiots no. I think I already said that my last boss was a guy who was asking us all day to give him "new ideas". That guy was at the verge of Bankruptcy, I think he owed some 2 million CY pounds to the Bank. I used to work overtime (with no extra payment) sometimes until maybe 8 or 9 o'clock pm. It occurred to me more than once for the boss to come to my office and ask me to go home because he had an important meeting and wanted to be alone. I thought he would have a party with some whore or something, and I hide myself in my car to see who would get in the building. It was a man with a suitcase. A high ranking Bank officer that I knew.
All 3 times that it happened it was the same person. Question: What was a high ranking Bank officer doing with him late at night???

[Robin Hood]

Pyrpolizer wrote:

Let's not take personal sides, I am as ignorant as Paphitis is. Perhaps more ignorant. I am just trying to learn from this discussion.

Paphitis:

No one is more ignorant as Robin Hood.

I don’t think that is a very nice thing to say about anyone! As far as banking goes I am certainly not ignorant on the subject and I hope I do not come across as someone who is ignorant in replying to any posts in general. I admit to being argumentative and will stand my ground but only on subjects I have some knowledge of and I hope in a reasonably polite fashion?

I've been on the receiving end of Banks in the past. Could have been Bankrupted by the age of 18.

I said before , I had a couple of meetings with the CEO of one of THE names in banking. He and his two colleagues, could not have been more courteous or pleasant. I had the three top Board level people in the Head Office of a major bank actually sitting across the board room table from me and even they are not the 'Banksters' I have an issue with. The CEO was very helpful, listened to what I had to say, even gave me some advice on investment and agreed with my argument. Deal settled. So neither am I new to dealing with banks and at a very, very senior level.

One more thing, when Banks make loans, the money never disappears. It remains. A credit is applied for the purchase of something and this IOU is usually credited to the seller of these Goods or Services. Unless they go to Las Vegas and gamble it away on Blackjack, the money remains whether even after the borrower pays the loan.

The money only disappears as the Borrowers liability and as a Banking Asset, yet could potentially remain as a Banking Liability but probably won't as the money will be used in one form or another.

Wrong! The currency disappears from circulation whenever a loan is repaid, simple fact of banking practice. You cannot pay off the loan without removing that amount of currency from circulation. Ask the BoE!

Banks actually need to satisfy themselves of a few things before they give loans as follows:

1) the borrower and their credit rating,
2) the purpose of the loan and clients objectives and aims,
3) business plan if applicable,
4) market research and prospects,
5) security,
6) servicing or borrowers liquidity and ability to pay,
7) Banks and customer's exit strategy - yes a Bank never wants to be sending Bailif's out.
8. Borrowers leverage, exposure and Balance Sheet

Everything is black and white and on paper.

If you don't meet the requirements and prove everything of the above, the loan will never get off the ground.

What you have posted are the requirements to qualify for a loan and nothing else. Unfortunately for your argument, the only paper these details appear on, is the loan contract. It does not form part of the account transaction that denotes the credit limit, which in turn becomes new currency in circulation and as a debt in your loan account, when you take up the offer and pay it to another.

You should watch this ..... covers more than just banking .... a documentary 1hr 38m

Four Horsemen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

The Big Short – a 2015 feature film based on facts about the events that led up to the crash of 2008 and the people who predicted it. A bit heavy but well worth watching if you want to see how banks operate. I don't have a link.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

About Assad, he is not in the clear. He will in fact be gone very soon and Putin knows it too.

Yes, if that is what the Syrian people want! As Putin said from day one ..... that decision is one the Syrian people will make and no other country has the right to make that decision for them or decide who will and who will not stand!

Everyone knows it, and now Putin and Obama are coordinating. Slowly the pieces fall into place, and as you can see, the rebels are being left alone.

There are virtually no FSA fighters left and the ‘moderates’ have mostly either run for it or joined ISIS. Thanks to Putin, yes slowly the pieces are falling into place. You were of the opinion they would never coordinate but they are and that is not because the US wants to ..... they have to, they have no other options.

As for the super wealthy, there is nothing you can do about them. They are untouchable. Stop pretending you can. And stop pretending you are going to turn the planet on its head. Capitalism cannot be stopped.

The Original Post was to do with the ever widening gap between the Super Rich and the rest of the people. I assume you don’t deny there is such a gap? Nobody has suggested that capitalism should be stopped, it is an essential component of an expanding economy which at the moment seems to be faltering. I think that is because of the banks and uncontrolled loans.(As P has described ) .... and that is completely insignificant on the world gauge ...... and yet it runs into billions!

For this to happen, there has to be a Global structure to facilitate the transfer of wealth from the rich/middle/working class and also the poor to the rich and then to the Super rich. It has to have a command structure otherwise it will be the only business on the Planet where everything happens by coincidence. The BIS, WB, IMF and all the major banks, all work as an integrated unit.

There is only one organisation through which that could possibly be achieved and that is the Global banking system. As you have acknowledged, they are the immense power that drives world economics. This gives them power over all and the resource they use is ‘money/currency’ whatever it is that you like to call the means of exchange. The basic tool that gives them that power is the ability to create more or less ALL the currency in circulation. They have the Worlds most significant commodity and they create it on demand as loans. To transfer wealth you have to use currency.

I said before, in the 1940’s around 50% of all currency in circulation was note and coin. It is now between 2-3%. And within 10 years that figure will be zero, there will be no paper notes at all. That will give these banks 100% control of the means of exchange and that means 100% control of ‘us’, they will shout ‘Jump’ and you and I will have no option but to do as commanded. If they want your land they will take it ..... you will not be asked you will be told.

Banking makes the world spin. Your pension doesn't exist either but you can still go to an ATM machine.

Yes ‘banking’ is firmly in the driving sheet and there will be little you or I can do to change that ..... at the moment anyway but things are changing! At this time, even in the US things are changing and the people are beginning to stir and turn on those in high places. They’ve had enough!

Just today, a Panamanian company has released 7 million papers detailing the massive tax evasion fraud that the rich and obviously Super rich, are using to avoid paying taxes. From what I gather the list contains the names of thousands of politicians and Statesmen from Ex-Presidents to Corporate Heads to banking employees (I know one. in the family, a VP with J P Morgan that has had his annual bonus paid into a Cayman Island account, set up by the bank for some 20 years) This is what has been going on without even the tax authorities getting a sniff. It will be interesting to see if Putin’s reputed $800bn is mentioned or the Clintons billions.

The guy I saw on TV was claiming, as they always do ......”I have done nothing wrong!” Maybe you are one of them?

I have no idea where you are coming from. Sounds like chaos and mayhem to me where we will be all killing each other for a meal. Only 3% of money exists they say. The other 97% is what everyone has in their accounts and keeps people employed.

You see, if you actually understood ...... what you have in your account is an IOU from the bank. That is what 97% of the money you think you have is comprised of ..... IOU’s from the bank. Remember what happened in Cyprus ..... the banks refused to repay their debts to the depositors, their IOU's were worthless. Laiki people lost all but €100k and BoC lost 47% of what they had over €100k. Came as a bit of a shock to the Cypriots who got caught and ruined hundreds of businesses and thousands of lives. ALL banks now, including those in Australia, have the same ‘bail-in’ legislation in place. What will happen when the derivatives market collapses? That is estimated to be 20 times the Worlds total GDP.

For the time being, Bankers are my friends and I hope that don't change. If it does, then I am prepared to take the consequences, and I will protect my most precious assets of all (my family).

Good on you! I hope they are true enough friends to warn you when the financial wobble starts!

I am a supporter of the system that keeps everyone fat, dumb and happy. Not the Bankers. We all know the rules.

Well it certainly will keep the majority dumb, fat if you happen to able to afford food and the bankers are certainly happy.(A bistro in the City of London has special kebabs for ;bankers' they cost £935 each ...... maybe it is a branch Militi owns?)

I and many others, even some on this Forum are of the opinion that there is another way that will make it a much fairer and sustainable society for all rather than just a small minority ...... the 0.01%. In history, no Ponzi scheme has ever survived ..... look up Ponzi schemes, it describes banking to a tee!

[Paphitis]

It's more important to ask about volumes rather than number of loans.

And 70% non-performing is not precedented anywhere else to my knowledge. That is way over the top. Over half the loans non-performing in Cyprus.

To me that suggests that in Cyprus you did not have Bankers in Cyprus but some idiots who did not know how Banking even works even.

The Banks were going down, it was just a matter of time as to when.

Just to give you an indication of the volumes: He said "Aristo Developers" which is perhaps one of the biggest land developers owes the Bank some billions. If my memory is correct he said 2 billion.He refuses to pay anything saying he doesn't have the money. Hourigan (the new Manager of BOC -he is Irish ) made a International search and found he had the money deposited in foreign Banks.He asked a meeting with him and with that evidence in hand he blackmailed him. It is said that Aristo got the shock of his life- 'αλλαξε εφτα χρωματα".
Now you may go to their web site and see all the projects this company has completed and sold over the years. They are about 100. If you sum up the value of those projects you will see it's about 2 billion. This means the guy has not paid back one single Euro to the Bank and the Banks kept financing him for the next project. The clients HAVE paid him though, the projects are still in the hands of the Bank as security, but the money flew abroad.

About the amount of non performing loans. My friend told me they have so much work every day they can't breath. I asked why, do you have so much work, how's that, do you give so many new loans?? He said no,we have almost no new loans. We are doing RESTRUCTURING all day. They call the client in. He may have 3 loans and pays nothing. They make him a new loan agreement under presumably better terms (lower monthly payment) and then delete the 3 old loans.
As he told me very few of those they do restructuring ever start paying anything. But because there is some time requirement (3 months?) to declare the new loan as non performing, they manage to drop the percentage of non performing from the real 70% to around 55%.

You said our Bankers are idiots. I wouldn't say that. Corrupt yes, but idiots no. I think I already said that my last boss was a guy who was asking us all day to give him "new ideas". That guy was at the verge of Bankruptcy, I think he owed some 2 million CY pounds to the Bank. I used to work overtime (with no extra payment) sometimes until maybe 8 or 9 o'clock pm. It occurred to me more than once for the boss to come to my office and ask me to go home because he had an important meeting and wanted to be alone. I thought he would have a party with some whore or something, and I hide myself in my car to see who would get in the building. It was a man with a suitcase. A high ranking Bank officer that I knew.
All 3 times that it happened it was the same person. Question: What was a high ranking Bank officer doing with him late at night???

lol Pyro. 2 Billion is like 10% of the Cypriot GDP. That's just lunacy.

There are Banking issues. It's only normal, but the biggest collapse was Kehman Beothers but even that pales compared to what hapenned in Cyprus.

The way I see it, is that Cyprus is insignificant. If your Bankers are as corrupt as what you say, the rest of the world is just gonna press ahead. Too much at stake. Asia will go through its Renaissance! It is going to explode and it's going to be the biggest thing we will ever see. And everyone is positioning themselves for the big boom and yes a bubble will develop. It's going to be huge.

If Ariato refuses to pay, then the Banks should have moved long ago and taken him to the cleaners.

Sorry to hear about your work. You shouldn't have to subsidize your boss with labor but I hope your boss makes it through and pays you your dues plus some.

Just to give you some indication, I have had similar debt levels to your boss for the last 20 odd years. I offloaded around 2010 but now I am loading up once again.

By 2016, my debts will double. But they should reduce significantly by 2019 to 2019. Twists, turns and roundabouts. It doesn't worry me. It's all I've known and I have not attracted the anger of the financiers in the last 10 years but I have been on the receiving end some time ago so I know what it feels like.

I also know how vindictive people can be. I really do believe people are the biggest shitheads. Banks are just another business. Nothing personal and we all know the rules and the consequences. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Overall, the Bankers have been cooperative.

I also know how to structure myself. I remember interest rates at 18% once, and if it hapenned in the past, it can happen again. That would be ugly. I also know that if things change in that direction, you got to act quickly and shed the debt. If you get caught, then you have the sacrificial lamb and insolvency but when you're set up in a number of Limited companies, then you have protection. Just need to find another Director because you're in the sin box for 5 years I think. Got that figured out too.

[Paphitis]

Pyrpolizer wrote:

Let's not take personal sides, I am as ignorant as Paphitis is. Perhaps more ignorant. I am just trying to learn from this discussion.

Paphitis:

No one is more ignorant as Robin Hood.

I don’t think that is a very nice thing to say about anyone! As far as banking goes I am certainly not ignorant on the subject and I hope I do not come across as someone who is ignorant in replying to any posts in general. I admit to being argumentative and will stand my ground but only on subjects I have some knowledge of and I hope in a reasonably polite fashion?

I've been on the receiving end of Banks in the past. Could have been Bankrupted by the age of 18.

I said before , I had a couple of meetings with the CEO of one of THE names in banking. He and his two colleagues, could not have been more courteous or pleasant. I had the three top Board level people in the Head Office of a major bank actually sitting across the board room table from me and even they are not the 'Banksters' I have an issue with. The CEO was very helpful, listened to what I had to say, even gave me some advice on investment and agreed with my argument. Deal settled. So neither am I new to dealing with banks and at a very, very senior level.

One more thing, when Banks make loans, the money never disappears. It remains. A credit is applied for the purchase of something and this IOU is usually credited to the seller of these Goods or Services. Unless they go to Las Vegas and gamble it away on Blackjack, the money remains whether even after the borrower pays the loan.

The money only disappears as the Borrowers liability and as a Banking Asset, yet could potentially remain as a Banking Liability but probably won't as the money will be used in one form or another.

Wrong! The currency disappears from circulation whenever a loan is repaid, simple fact of banking practice. You cannot pay off the loan without removing that amount of currency from circulation. Ask the BoE!

Banks actually need to satisfy themselves of a few things before they give loans as follows:

1) the borrower and their credit rating,
2) the purpose of the loan and clients objectives and aims,
3) business plan if applicable,
4) market research and prospects,
5) security,
6) servicing or borrowers liquidity and ability to pay,
7) Banks and customer's exit strategy - yes a Bank never wants to be sending Bailif's out.
8. Borrowers leverage, exposure and Balance Sheet

Everything is black and white and on paper.

If you don't meet the requirements and prove everything of the above, the loan will never get off the ground.

What you have posted are the requirements to qualify for a loan and nothing else. Unfortunately for your argument, the only paper these details appear on, is the loan contract. It does not form part of the account transaction that denotes the credit limit, which in turn becomes new currency in circulation and as a debt in your loan account, when you take up the offer and pay it to another.

You should watch this ..... covers more than just banking .... a documentary 1hr 38m

Four Horsemen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

The Big Short – a 2015 feature film based on facts about the events that led up to the crash of 2008 and the people who predicted it. A bit heavy but well worth watching if you want to see how banks operate. I don't have a link.

Don't take it personally Robin Hood. But I do believe you are ignorant about the inner workings of Banks and what they mean to all of us, especially to virtually all businesses from the ground up.

You are wanting to turn everything upside down but you have not explained to my satisfaction exactly what this would mean or how it would be better. I am in no way convinced that it will be better. In fact, I believe we will go backwards big time.

And yes, I think there is Buckley's chance of anything like that happening. Asia Pacific is going to be the center of the universe and we are talking about a market of 3.5 Billion people, with about 2 billion still below the poverty line but not for long. Can you imagine?

[Paphitis]

Paphitis:

About Assad, he is not in the clear. He will in fact be gone very soon and Putin knows it too.

Yes, if that is what the Syrian people want! As Putin said from day one ..... that decision is one the Syrian people will make and no other country has the right to make that decision for them or decide who will and who will not stand!

Everyone knows it, and now Putin and Obama are coordinating. Slowly the pieces fall into place, and as you can see, the rebels are being left alone.

There are virtually no FSA fighters left and the ‘moderates’ have mostly either run for it or joined ISIS. Thanks to Putin, yes slowly the pieces are falling into place. You were of the opinion they would never coordinate but they are and that is not because the US wants to ..... they have to, they have no other options.

As for the super wealthy, there is nothing you can do about them. They are untouchable. Stop pretending you can. And stop pretending you are going to turn the planet on its head. Capitalism cannot be stopped.

The Original Post was to do with the ever widening gap between the Super Rich and the rest of the people. I assume you don’t deny there is such a gap? Nobody has suggested that capitalism should be stopped, it is an essential component of an expanding economy which at the moment seems to be faltering. I think that is because of the banks and uncontrolled loans.(As P has described ) .... and that is completely insignificant on the world gauge ...... and yet it runs into billions!

For this to happen, there has to be a Global structure to facilitate the transfer of wealth from the rich/middle/working class and also the poor to the rich and then to the Super rich. It has to have a command structure otherwise it will be the only business on the Planet where everything happens by coincidence. The BIS, WB, IMF and all the major banks, all work as an integrated unit.

There is only one organisation through which that could possibly be achieved and that is the Global banking system. As you have acknowledged, they are the immense power that drives world economics. This gives them power over all and the resource they use is ‘money/currency’ whatever it is that you like to call the means of exchange. The basic tool that gives them that power is the ability to create more or less ALL the currency in circulation. They have the Worlds most significant commodity and they create it on demand as loans. To transfer wealth you have to use currency.

I said before, in the 1940’s around 50% of all currency in circulation was note and coin. It is now between 2-3%. And within 10 years that figure will be zero, there will be no paper notes at all. That will give these banks 100% control of the means of exchange and that means 100% control of ‘us’, they will shout ‘Jump’ and you and I will have no option but to do as commanded. If they want your land they will take it ..... you will not be asked you will be told.

Banking makes the world spin. Your pension doesn't exist either but you can still go to an ATM machine.

Yes ‘banking’ is firmly in the driving sheet and there will be little you or I can do to change that ..... at the moment anyway but things are changing! At this time, even in the US things are changing and the people are beginning to stir and turn on those in high places. They’ve had enough!

Just today, a Panamanian company has released 7 million papers detailing the massive tax evasion fraud that the rich and obviously Super rich, are using to avoid paying taxes. From what I gather the list contains the names of thousands of politicians and Statesmen from Ex-Presidents to Corporate Heads to banking employees (I know one. in the family, a VP with J P Morgan that has had his annual bonus paid into a Cayman Island account, set up by the bank for some 20 years) This is what has been going on without even the tax authorities getting a sniff. It will be interesting to see if Putin’s reputed $800bn is mentioned or the Clintons billions.

The guy I saw on TV was claiming, as they always do ......”I have done nothing wrong!” Maybe you are one of them?

I have no idea where you are coming from. Sounds like chaos and mayhem to me where we will be all killing each other for a meal. Only 3% of money exists they say. The other 97% is what everyone has in their accounts and keeps people employed.

You see, if you actually understood ...... what you have in your account is an IOU from the bank. That is what 97% of the money you think you have is comprised of ..... IOU’s from the bank. Remember what happened in Cyprus ..... the banks refused to repay their debts to the depositors, their IOU's were worthless. Laiki people lost all but €100k and BoC lost 47% of what they had over €100k. Came as a bit of a shock to the Cypriots who got caught and ruined hundreds of businesses and thousands of lives. ALL banks now, including those in Australia, have the same ‘bail-in’ legislation in place. What will happen when the derivatives market collapses? That is estimated to be 20 times the Worlds total GDP.

For the time being, Bankers are my friends and I hope that don't change. If it does, then I am prepared to take the consequences, and I will protect my most precious assets of all (my family).

Good on you! I hope they are true enough friends to warn you when the financial wobble starts!

I am a supporter of the system that keeps everyone fat, dumb and happy. Not the Bankers. We all know the rules.

Well it certainly will keep the majority dumb, fat if you happen to able to afford food and the bankers are certainly happy.(A bistro in the City of London has special kebabs for ;bankers' they cost £935 each ...... maybe it is a branch Militi owns?)

I and many others, even some on this Forum are of the opinion that there is another way that will make it a much fairer and sustainable society for all rather than just a small minority ...... the 0.01%. In history, no Ponzi scheme has ever survived ..... look up Ponzi schemes, it describes banking to a tee!

Oh dear, Icelands PM, Pootin, Assad caught with their pants down.

They are not the only ones. Hollywood stars, big corporations transferring funds to international tax havens and through money laundering clearing houses.

Well well well! Robin Hood. It looks like Pootin and Assad have been stealing from the poor people.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-0 ... rs/7270690

Who would have thought mate!

Face it mate. These guys are untouchable. They do what they want when they want. Problem is, your little war is not against these criminals but the hard working and honest go getters who are just trying to make a go of things.

You even support these criminals.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

Don't take it personally Robin Hood. But I do believe you are ignorant about the inner workings of Banks and what they mean to all of us, especially to virtually all businesses from the ground up.

Don’t take this personally Paph. but at least I can refer back to papers published by the Bank of England, The FED, Bundesbank, various institutes and respected economist to support my understanding .......... all you have presented so far is your opinion and a lot of rather conceited pronouncements and clear proof of ignorance.

You have even stated that you don’t care who creates the money, it is not of importance to you. I have explained that having the CB creating new currency, would have no effect on private loans and only changes for the better for all, including SME’s and even major corporations.

I have explained the obvious benefits of a debt free, interest free economy to any country. All of it can be supported by creditable, knowledgeable and well respected academics, economists and institutions ..... but that isn’t good enough for you, they have to say it like you think it is. I got news for you! They know what their talking abaout and you don’t!

You obviously haven’t the knowledge to even work out the answer to my question yet ..... obviously, you don’t know how, in spite of your vast knowledge of ‘banking’ ..... so I will give you the answer:

To a pragmatist, it is 10 apples! You only have 10 apples to start with, so you can’t have more unless you can create them out of thin air.

To an accountant, it is 55 apples! Because they CAN create anything out of thin air. Erolz’ posted chart explained it to you but you were not clever enough to work it out. It is the ‘Fractional reserve’ system that you have oft quoted but obviously don’t understand or you would have had no difficulty in giving an answer ...... if only to shut me up!

Oh dear, Icelands PM, Pootin, Assad caught with their pants down

.
Very quick to condemn on inference and here say as usual! You have difficulty reading because I don’t see anything that accuses Putin or Assad, of anything. What I see is references to their associates and family members:

The leak reveals the offshore holdings of 12 current and former world leaders including Iceland's Prime Minister Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson, as well as relatives of Syria's President Bashar al-Assad, friends of Russian President Vladimir Putin and members of China's Communist Party elite.(I wonder where the others are from?)

Associates of Russian President Vladimir Putin are among those identified in the investigation

.

Associates of Russian President Vladimir Putin secretly shuffled as much as $2 billion through banks and shadow companies

BUT direct accussation .........

Icelandic Prime Minister Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson and his wife secretly owned an offshore firm that held millions of dollars in Icelandic bank bonds during the country's financial crisis
They are not the only ones. Hollywood stars, big corporations (and Bankers would seem a reasonable assumption?) transferring funds to international tax havens and through money laundering clearing houses.

Paphitis:

Well well well! Robin Hood. It looks like Pootin and Assad have been stealing from the poor people.

I am sure had they the same proof against Putin and Assad as they have against those that they have positively identified, it would have been headline news by now, so this says it is simple speculation by association, thin evidence, not enough to make any charges. What you have suggested is tittle-tattle and a splash of deception. Try disseminating direct accusation from unsupported suggestion!

Who would have thought mate!

Face it mate. These guys are untouchable. They do what they want when they want. Problem is, your little war is not against these criminals but the hard working and honest go getters who are just trying to make a go of things.

You mean ‘hard working, honest, go-getter types like head chopping ‘moderate’ Islamic extremists and their supporter’s trying to overthrow their Government with foreign backing and thousands of foreign mercenaries?

Yes, untouchable like many world leaders ...... how many of them will survive investigation? I see Cameron is into it as well, using your standards of proof .

You even support these criminals.

Yes, until someone puts up the evidence of guilt to a reasonable level of possibility. Like they have for Blair, Bush, Straw, Rumsfeld, Chetney, Rice, Clinton, McCain et al, far too many to list, but all protected and living well out of the reach of the Law.

[Pyrpolizer]

lol Pyro. 2 Billion is like 10% of the Cypriot GDP. That's just lunacy.

I guess you would be happier if that sum was owed by 6 major firms including Aristo..In fact that was the case.
Either my friend misguided me unintentionally or I didn't understand well.He did mention some of the other five though. More details here:
http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... id=0016194

[Robin Hood]

A year ago someone provided tons of data from Mossak Fonseca to a German newpaper, the Sueddeutsche Zeitung. The Munich daily is politically on the center right and staunchly pro NATO. It cooperates with the Guardian, the BBC, Le Monde, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists and some other news organization who are all known supporters of the establishment.

The Sueddeutsche claims that the "leaked" data is about some 214,000 shell companies and 14,000 Mossak Fonseca clients. There is surely a lot of hidden dirt in there. How many U.S. Senators are involved in such companies? Which European Union politicians? What are the big Wall Street banks and hedge funds hiding in Panama? Oh, sorry. The Sueddeutsche and its partners will not answer those questions. Here is how they "analyzed" the data:

The journalists compiled lists of important politicians, international criminals, and well-known professional athletes, among others. The digital processing made it possible to then search the leak for the names on these lists. The "party donations scandal" list contained 130 names, and the UN sanctions list more than 600. In just a few minutes, the powerful search algorithm compared the lists with the 11.5 million documents.

For each name found, a detailed research process was initiated that posed the following questions: what is this person’s role in the network of companies? Where does the money come from? Where is it going? Is this structure legal?

Essentially the Sueddeutsche compiled a list of known criminals and people and organizations the U.S. dislikes and cross checked them with the "leaked" database. Selected hits were then further evaluated. The outcome are stories like the annual attempt to smear the Russian president Putin, who is not even mentioned in the Mossak Fonseca data, accusations against various people of the soccer association FIFA, much disliked by the U.S., and a few mentions of other miscreants of minor relevancy.

There is no story about any U.S. person, none at all, nor about any important NATO politician. The highest political "casualty" so far is the irrelevant Prime Minister of Iceland Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson who, together with his wife, owned one of the shell companies. There is no evidence that the ownership or the money held by that company were illegal.

Last paragraph? Insignificant ?..... I don’t think so! He is the Prime Minister that has started jailing bankers, compensated the Icelandic people with several thousand and commissioned an investigation into the workings of the banking system and was going for a referendum to implement changes!

Guess what? ....... it is exactly what we have talked about here! Transfer the right of money creation from private commercial banks to an arm of the State and thus by and for the people.

Was the source reliable ..... you judge?

The leak is being managed by the grandly but laughably named “International Consortium of Investigative Journalists”, which is funded and organised entirely by the USA’s Center for Public Integrity. Their funders include

Ford Foundation
Carnegie Endowment
Rockefeller Family Fund
W K Kellogg Foundation
Open Society Foundation (Soros)

The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) is part of the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) which is financed by the U.S. government through USAID.

The "leak" is of data selected by U.S. friendly organization out of a database, likely obtained by U.S. secret services, which can be assumed to include much dirt about "western" persons and organizations.

To only publish very selected data from the "leaked" data has two purposes:

• It smears various "enemies of the empire" even if only by association like the presidents Putin and Assad.

• It lets other important people, those mentioned in the database but not yet published about, know that the U.S. or its "media partner" can, at any time, expose their dirty laundry to the public. It is thereby a perfect blackmailing instrument.

The engineered "leak" of the "Panama Papers" is a limited hangout designed to incriminate a few people and organization the U.S. dislikes. It is also a demonstration of the "torture tools" to the people who did business with Mossak Fonseca but have not (yet) been published about. They are now in the hands of those who control the database. They will have to do as demanded or else ...

Just shows you what can happen when you upset those nice friendly banking people?

It seems that us ‘Lefties’ have got the establishment worried .............. This was reported in various media outlets but was sort of played down a bit and you had to look for it ...... didn’t see any discussions at the time April 2015)

Monetary Reform - A better monetary system for Iceland.

http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2 ... d-banking/

Full Icelandic report - report 92 Pages:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/260617614/Iceland-Monetary-Reform

[Paphitis]

Paphitis:

Don't take it personally Robin Hood. But I do believe you are ignorant about the inner workings of Banks and what they mean to all of us, especially to virtually all businesses from the ground up.

Don’t take this personally Paph. but at least I can refer back to papers published by the Bank of England, The FED, Bundesbank, various institutes and respected economist to support my understanding .......... all you have presented so far is your opinion and a lot of rather conceited pronouncements and clear proof of ignorance.

You have even stated that you don’t care who creates the money, it is not of importance to you. I have explained that having the CB creating new currency, would have no effect on private loans and only changes for the better for all, including SME’s and even major corporations.

I have explained the obvious benefits of a debt free, interest free economy to any country. All of it can be supported by creditable, knowledgeable and well respected academics, economists and institutions ..... but that isn’t good enough for you, they have to say it like you think it is. I got news for you! They know what their talking abaout and you don’t!

You obviously haven’t the knowledge to even work out the answer to my question yet ..... obviously, you don’t know how, in spite of your vast knowledge of ‘banking’ ..... so I will give you the answer:

To a pragmatist, it is 10 apples! You only have 10 apples to start with, so you can’t have more unless you can create them out of thin air.

To an accountant, it is 55 apples! Because they CAN create anything out of thin air. Erolz’ posted chart explained it to you but you were not clever enough to work it out. It is the ‘Fractional reserve’ system that you have oft quoted but obviously don’t understand or you would have had no difficulty in giving an answer ...... if only to shut me up!

Oh dear, Icelands PM, Pootin, Assad caught with their pants down

.
Very quick to condemn on inference and here say as usual! You have difficulty reading because I don’t see anything that accuses Putin or Assad, of anything. What I see is references to their associates and family members:

The leak reveals the offshore holdings of 12 current and former world leaders including Iceland's Prime Minister Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson, as well as relatives of Syria's President Bashar al-Assad, friends of Russian President Vladimir Putin and members of China's Communist Party elite.(I wonder where the others are from?)

Associates of Russian President Vladimir Putin are among those identified in the investigation

.

Associates of Russian President Vladimir Putin secretly shuffled as much as $2 billion through banks and shadow companies

BUT direct accussation .........

Icelandic Prime Minister Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson and his wife secretly owned an offshore firm that held millions of dollars in Icelandic bank bonds during the country's financial crisis
They are not the only ones. Hollywood stars, big corporations (and Bankers would seem a reasonable assumption?) transferring funds to international tax havens and through money laundering clearing houses.

Paphitis:

Well well well! Robin Hood. It looks like Pootin and Assad have been stealing from the poor people.

I am sure had they the same proof against Putin and Assad as they have against those that they have positively identified, it would have been headline news by now, so this says it is simple speculation by association, thin evidence, not enough to make any charges. What you have suggested is tittle-tattle and a splash of deception. Try disseminating direct accusation from unsupported suggestion!

Who would have thought mate!

Face it mate. These guys are untouchable. They do what they want when they want. Problem is, your little war is not against these criminals but the hard working and honest go getters who are just trying to make a go of things.

You mean ‘hard working, honest, go-getter types like head chopping ‘moderate’ Islamic extremists and their supporter’s trying to overthrow their Government with foreign backing and thousands of foreign mercenaries?

Yes, untouchable like many world leaders ...... how many of them will survive investigation? I see Cameron is into it as well, using your standards of proof .

You even support these criminals.

Yes, until someone puts up the evidence of guilt to a reasonable level of possibility. Like they have for Blair, Bush, Straw, Rumsfeld, Chetney, Rice, Clinton, McCain et al, far too many to list, but all protected and living well out of the reach of the Law.

Don't take this personally Robin Hood. But I refer to the same BoE papers and at no time did they ever admit they can create money from thin air. I already gave you a complete rundown about the BoE which everyone is misinterpreting!

And they will never say such a thing, because quite frankly they can't do it.

(Sorry, but I mean lenders can't do it. The BoE actually can)