Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

People really don't understand what happens. Most people are clueless, and it is a real shame. Not saying I know how it works either, just some basic fundamentals we should all understand as a minimum. We don't really have to get in the nitty gritty but basic fundamentals are critical. The nitty gritty are for the experts like Varoufakis and for people in Government.

Do you apply this ‘basic fundamentals’ philosophy to flying? i.e. Just get a grasp of the fundamentals and the rest is for others to worry about!

For someone who has ‘researched’ the subject of money/economics/banking for maybe 3 weeks, you seem to have become an authority very quickly. It took me some 12-13 years and yet you appear to know much more than I do and most of my informed sources, including the Bank of England and the FED!

Having had a Christian upbringing, the Sisters will no doubt have told you the story of Jesus throwing the ‘money lenders’ out of The Temple? ....... he didn’t throw them far enough ...... they are still with us today! The ‘Money Lenders’ rely as much today on ignorance of, and brainwashing of, people like you, as the Islamists do with their acolytes! But The Bankers are now even more of an extreme power and global 'industry', than Wilson observed all those years ago!

Woodrow Wilson: said in his book ‘The New Freedom’: ......

“Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.”

BTW: Answer the question regarding the apples ........ surely just the use of some of your ‘basic fundamentals we should all understand as a minimum’ and you should get the right answer. This is a challenge to you ......... it will determine whether you are 'pragmatic' or just 'brainwashed' or indeed, can see both sides of the picture!

[Robin Hood]

I 'd suggest we stop at this point and go one step further.

I suggest we all buy the book 'where does money come from' and then we discuss it here chapter by chapter. One chapter a week or every 2 weeks or month.

Must you guys really do that, really!!!!!

All this money talk between the 4 of you has reminded me of a commercial that use to run on the TV in the late 70's /early 80's in the USA, regarding how money is made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAMRXqQXemU

Making money and creating money is not the same thing! Anyway, he obviously got it wrong some where, he recently got eaten by J.P.Morgan.......

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuabrown/2012/09/25/saying-goodbye-to-smith-barney/#659029b42dd

[Paphitis]

Paphitis:

People really don't understand what happens. Most people are clueless, and it is a real shame. Not saying I know how it works either, just some basic fundamentals we should all understand as a minimum. We don't really have to get in the nitty gritty but basic fundamentals are critical. The nitty gritty are for the experts like Varoufakis and for people in Government.

Do you apply this ‘basic fundamentals’ philosophy to flying? i.e. Just get a grasp of the fundamentals and the rest is for others to worry about!

For someone who has ‘researched’ the subject of money/economics/banking for maybe 3 weeks, you seem to have become an authority very quickly. It took me some 12-13 years and yet you appear to know much more than I do and most of my informed sources, including the Bank of England and the FED!

Having had a Christian upbringing, the Sisters will no doubt have told you the story of Jesus throwing the ‘money lenders’ out of The Temple? ....... he didn’t throw them far enough ...... they are still with us today! The ‘Money Lenders’ rely as much today on ignorance of, and brainwashing of, people like you, as the Islamists do with their acolytes! But The Bankers are now even more of an extreme power and global 'industry', than Wilson observed all those years ago!

Woodrow Wilson: said in his book ‘The New Freedom’: ......

“Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.”

BTW: Answer the question regarding the apples ........ surely just the use of some of your ‘basic fundamentals we should all understand as a minimum’ and you should get the right answer. This is a challenge to you ......... it will determine whether you are 'pragmatic' or just 'brainwashed' or indeed, can see both sides of the picture!

Oh I love the analogy between Banking and Flying. It's so accurate.

Yes, 99% of society have no clue about The Nechanics of Flight, Aerodynamics, Atmospheric Physics, Meteorology, Gas Turbine Theory, or Human Factors anymore than they know about Inflation, broad money, real money, shares, options or derivatives.

People just get on a plane and 99.999999% of the time, the airlines deliver and they do it on schedule 98% of the time. Same with the Banks! They deliver 99.9999999% of the time. Everyone happy.

The 0.00000001% of the time the do not deliver, well in the case of the airline, you will probably be dead, pilots included. With the banks, when the economy goes down, Banks also go down with the Titanic so it is not in their interest at all.

And oh yes, I am sure Jesus would have thrown the lenders out of the temple just like he would have done it 200 years ago. But now, finance is the great equalizer and the Mohamned's will be moving next door to the best surgeons, tv stars, politicians, and football players very soon and Jesus is gonna like it because he never cursed hard work. I don't think he would care that Mohammed is Muslim either. That is all man created bollocks!

Never stops the passengers bitching and whining like a Gas Turbine about things they don't understand. Some people should just sit down, fasten their seat belts and eat their nuts as good passengers, whilst others actually have a go.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

Yes they (the lefties? )want to change the system but these people have no clue what this would mean

.
Paphitis, with all due respects, it is because you don’t understand the basic’s that you get the ‘nitty-gritty’ all wrong!

I think it would be true to say that myself, Pyrpolizer and Erolz all have the same perception of what difference it would make if only the Central Bank had the sole right to create currency?

In short .......There would be no negative effect on the borrower, ........whether that be an entrepreneur business man or an individual who wanted to buy a car, if this principal was implemented. It is only the ‘behind-the-scenes’ structure that changes. Because you cannot comprehend the basics you spread tales of woe and warn everyone that the crazies want to bring down capitalism. In fact any changes would be nothing but positive!

As I explained previously, the banks would become an intermediary between the Central Bank and the borrower. They would not be lending money they had created. The Central Bank would not be a commercial enterprise because there would be absolutely no need for them to make a profit and they would be their own collateral because they are an Institute within Government ........... and it all belongs to them.

An example:

A small business with say 20 employees needs to expand its premises, buy a couple of new pieces of equipment and provide some more office space and needs say £1m. He goes to see the Bank Manager to apply for a loan. The bank completes the form that denotes he has provided a good business plan, will invest X amount of the required capital required and his sums all work out. The bank confirms that his loan, if provided will provide 6 more jobs and increased production through increased efficiency this would be a classification determined by the Central Bank as a net benefit to the community on a recommendation from the commercial bank.

The loan is agreed by the Central Bank ..... and the borrower is told that the rate to be charged on his loan would be zero% ......... as he is an SME and his loan will create new jobs. What the CB has done is to agree with the bank that they will be able to charge say 5% on the loan value to the customer but the CB will charge them interest of -5%. The CB is effectively subsidising the borrower whilst still allowing the Bank to make a profit.

So the CB has control over the interest charged to the bank and the interest they charge the borrower. They also have full scrutiny over the application and documentation provided to confirm the category as assessed by the bank.

See ....... no change to the borrower except he pays zero in interest. He is better off with this deal than he would ever get from a commercial bank at the moment.

Then along comes Christos who has decided he wants to swap last year’s model 5 Series BMW for a new top of the range 350 Mercedes sport car. He goes through exactly the same process as above, but ........ the Bank decides he is an ‘improvement of lifestyle’ applicant. The CB agrees the loan and tells the bank that the interest will be 20% + the banks 5%, total 25%.

As the money he is asking for creates nothing of value to the economy, he gets no subsidy and is charged for the privilege of being granted a loan. The CB provides the money to the bank at 20% interest and they charge 5% for their services.

You want luxury .... then you pay for the privilege or wait till you can afford it.

A very simple example of where, in spite of your rather belittling opinion of everyone else’s knowledge, as a business man with a small SME you would have been very much worse of had you opted for the current bank loan system.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

Oh I love the analogy between Banking and Flying. It's so accurate.

Off the thread but let me tell you a story ......

Some years ago I worked with a guy who had recently acquired his PPL. Now I don’t want to boast but ...... I already had one, with both ‘night’ and ‘IMC’ ratings. One weekend we both went to a do in the country with our wives/families ..... but my colleague decided to make a grand appearance and arrive by air with his wife.

Very nice landing in a hired Piper Arrow, parked up for an hour or so and then decided to leave.

He taxied to the upwind end of the field across the grass, turned, lined up and opened the throttle. Unfortunately, in his limited experience he had overlooked the fact the long grass is fine when landing but creates a few problems when taking off.

He roared across the grass in deep concentration .......... and I watched thinking to myself “What a pratt, he is not going to make it ..... not enough air speed.” He eventually abandoned his take-off but a just wee bit too late. He was down to jogging pace when he reached the ditch at the opposite end of the field, locked wheels, sliding on the long, wet grass and the nose dipped, plunging his still rotating propeller into the hedge. Trimmed the hedge beautifully, as I noted when I went to help his wife out of the aeroplane.

He asked me later why I didn’t warn him about the long grass ...... my reply was “You didn’t ask!”

Thankfully no one was hurt and only his pride and the prop suffered any damage ....... oh, and his wallet!

There is no substitute for experience!

[Paphitis]

Paphitis:

Oh I love the analogy between Banking and Flying. It's so accurate.

Off the thread but let me tell you a story ......

Some years ago I worked with a guy who had recently acquired his PPL. Now I don’t want to boast but ...... I already had one, with both ‘night’ and ‘IMC’ ratings. One weekend we both went to a do in the country with our wives/families ..... but my colleague decided to make a grand appearance and arrive by air with his wife.

Very nice landing in a hired Piper Arrow, parked up for an hour or so and then decided to leave.

He taxied to the upwind end of the field across the grass, turned, lined up and opened the throttle. Unfortunately, in his limited experience he had overlooked the fact the long grass is fine when landing but creates a few problems when taking off.

He roared across the grass in deep concentration .......... and I watched thinking to myself “What a pratt, he is not going to make it ..... not enough air speed.” He eventually abandoned his take-off but a just wee bit too late. He was down to jogging pace when he reached the ditch at the opposite end of the field, locked wheels, sliding on the long, wet grass and the nose dipped, plunging his still rotating propeller into the hedge. Trimmed the hedge beautifully, as I noted when I went to help his wife out of the aeroplane.

He asked me later why I didn’t warn him about the long grass ...... my reply was “You didn’t ask!”

Thankfully no one was hurt and only his pride and the prop suffered any damage ....... oh, and his wallet!

There is no substitute for experience!

Oh I am pretty sure Erolz, Pyro and everyone else understand the fact that if it was only the Central Bank that was able to give out loans to business and the public, that the markets will only be open for the elites and Billionaires. They will not be open to the Mohammeds, or the little man because the Central Bank just would not cope. Imagine the size that this monstrosity and just ask yourself if they are able or even willing to supply the cash needed for people to get ahead.

And competition is another matter altogether.

No that is ok, but we all want our Banks and Coops.

A bit like the State Run Legacy Airline. If the market was not open to competition, then airfares would be twice dearer.

[Pyrpolizer]

I 'd suggest we stop at this point and go one step further.

I suggest we all buy the book 'where does money come from' and then we discuss it here chapter by chapter. One chapter a week or every 2 weeks or month.

Anyone interested download it from here.You may need to ignore the invitation to register, and press download button 2 times.
*.epub files open with Firefox just download the relevant ad-on from mozilla. Also open with Adobe digital editions a free program from adobe.
And shhhh... don't tell anyone it's free

http://www.filedropper.com/book

[Pyrpolizer]

When borrowing stops and debts are being paid, then is when the economy is in decline. That is the cycle we are in today.

When borrowing stops and debts are NOT being paid because they were used for speculating or consumption purposes, then is when the economy is ruined. And there is no way to get into the cycle again.
Can you stop the Banks from offering such loans? Can you even just stop the Banks from issuing Credit Cards? Why not be forced through some procedure to just issue Electron/Cash Cards?

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

Oh I am pretty sure Erolz, Pyro and everyone else understand the fact that if it was only the Central Bank that was able to give out loans to business and the public, that the markets will only be open for the elites and Billionaires. They will not be open to the Mohammeds, or the little man because the Central Bank just would not cope. Imagine the size that this monstrosity and just ask yourself if they are able or even willing to supply the cash needed for people to get ahead.

What on earth are you prattling on about? Do you ever actually read ANYTHING?

What do you find so difficult to comprehend ........... the banks will carry on as usual! The ONLY difference is that THEY no longer create the currency they lend out.... the Central Bank does!!!!! The Central Bank sets the interest rate (as they do now) and issues the currency to the bank, who are then able to add their percentage for services rendered. The process would apply to ALL private loans ..... whether you are black, white, a person or an SME, Muslim, Christian or Jew...... you are including limitations and conditions that are just your distorted imagination.

Why would the Central Bank not cope? The banks apply for loans en-block, one application from Head Office covers all the loans applied for, according to set procedures.

Why would they not be able to supply the currency? (not cash .... it is an electronic transfer not a truck load of freshly printed notes!) the CB would create currency in exactly the same way commercial banks do now ...... they type in a number and ‘SEND’ it to the Banks. At the moment the banks type in a number and 'SEND' it to the borrowers account. Same number of transactions for the bank, equal to the number of loan applications and they bundle them and send an application to the Central Bank. I don’t see how you find that so difficult to come to terms with? It is not rocket science!

And competition is another matter altogether.

Competition? ..... still there no change! The bank is given a maximum charge by the CB, if through efficiency they can lend at rates below the competition, they are free to do so.

No that is ok, but we all want our Banks and Coops.

Still there no change.

A bit like the State Run Legacy Airline. If the market was not open to competition, then airfares would be twice dearer.

The State runs nothing ........... it becomes a client of the Central Bank and, just like the banks, will get their funding from the Central Bank ..... only with different Terms and Conditions!

You do not grasp even the basics!

[Robin Hood]

I 'd suggest we stop at this point and go one step further.

I suggest we all buy the book 'where does money come from' and then we discuss it here chapter by chapter. One chapter a week or every 2 weeks or month.

Anyone interested download it from here.You may need to ignore the invitation to register, and press download button 2 times.
*.epub files open with Firefox just download the relevant ad-on from mozilla. Also open with Adobe digital editions a free program from adobe.
And shhhh... don't tell anyone it's free

http://www.filedropper.com/book

HELP ...... how do you do it with Windows 7 Ultimate? Step-by-step

BTW; Searched with Google ...... and got1,260,000,000 matches in less than half a second .... obviously a popular subject!

Paphitis will speed read it in about two minutes, and when asked what it is all about will reply ....... 'MONEY!' :