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[GreekIslandGirl]

Back to the thread topic.....

[GreekIslandGirl]

Poland was one of the most hesitant to play a part and help fellow EU members in this crisis.

This is better behaviour:

Poland's Interior Ministry says it will send 120 border guards, police and migration bureau officers to Greece to help protect the European Union's borders under the mass inflow of refugees.

A communique on the ministry website said Monday that due to the "continuing migration crisis in Europe," 60 Border Guard officers and 40 police officers with the necessary equipment will soon support Europe's border protection agency, Frontex, in securing Greece's border, which is also the EU's external border.

A further 20 experts of Poland's Office for Foreigners will help with processing the migrants' requests for asylum.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-the-l ... 016-4?IR=T

[supporttheunderdog]

Gig you are the one who has used a mish mash and bland assertion, seldom quoting anything credible let alone official in support of your absurdities and lies. Erolz and I have invented nothing.

While the The COMMUNICATION FROM THE COMMISSION TO THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND THE COUNCIL Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area 1 May - 10 December 2015 http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/e-library/documents/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen/docs/eighth_biannual_report_on_the_functioning_of_the_schengen_area_en.pdf discussed the November 10-13 Evaluation Visits to Greece it did not and indeed COULD NOT on its own terms be critical of Greece since as the report itself stated

The conclusions of the two visits are currently being finalised at the expert level.

. The Commission could not therefore discuss results AS THEY WERE STILL CONSIDERING THE EVALUATION!

The report stated

Depending on the results of the aforementioned Schengen evaluations, specific measures as referred in Article 19a SBC may be recommended.
Should an evaluated Member State be found to be seriously neglecting its obligations and progress in rectifying the situation is insufficient, the use of Article 26 SBC (as described in section 2.2 of this report) can be invoked that implies reintroducing border control at internal borders where the overall functioning of the Schengen area is put at risk.

The Findings are Discussed as follows

Commission discusses draft Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece,Brussels 27 January 2016

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-174_en.htm
the pertinat extract can be found here

Following a positive opinion by the Schengen evaluation committee on Friday, the College of Commissioners has today adopted the Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece and a proposal for a Council Recommendation on addressing the serious deficiencies identified in the evaluation report on the application of Schengen rules in the field of management of the external borders by Greece. The recommendations will be submitted to the Council for adoption.
The Schengen evaluation mechanism, established in October 2013, provides for the verification of the application of the Schengen rules through monitoring visits to a given Member State by Commission-led teams with experts from Member States and Frontex. The Schengen evaluation report for Greece and the Proposal for a Council Recommendation has been drawn up jointly by Member States experts and Commission representatives.
''''''
The recommendations seek to ensure that Greece applies all Schengen rules related to management of external border correctly and effectively. Recommendations are made in a number of areas such as the improvement of the registration procedures, including ensuring a sufficient number of staff and fingerprint scanners for registration and verification of migrants and their travel documents against SIS, Interpol and national databases. Greece should provide the necessary facilities for accommodation during the registration process and launch return procedures for irregular migrants who are not seeking asylum and who are not in need of international protection. Border surveillance should be improved, including the establishment of a risk analysis system and increased training of border guards. Improvements should also be made to infrastructure and equipment at the border crossing points.
In order to ensure compliance with these recommendations, the Commission may, in addition, recommend that Greece takes certain specific measures under Article 19a of the Schengen Borders Code, given the serious deficiencies noted in the Schengen Evaluation Report.
Schengen Evaluation Mechanism
''''''''''
The Eighth bi-annual report on the functioning of the Schengen area of 15 December 2015 already announced that, depending on the results of the Schengen evaluations in Greece, specific measures as referred to in Article 19a and 26 of the Schengen Borders Code may be recommended.

Note the words

serious deficiencies ,,,,,, in the field of management of the external borders by Greece

Commission adopts Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece and proposes recommendations to address deficiencies in external border management

Strasbourg, 2 February 2016
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-211_en.htm'

Following a positive opinion by the Schengen evaluation committee on Friday, the College of Commissioners has today adopted the Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece and a proposal for a Council Recommendation on addressing the serious deficiencies identified in the evaluation report on the application of Schengen rules in the field of management of the external borders by Greece. The recommendations will be submitted to the Council for adoption.

And the Council reports on its deliberations here

Schengen evaluation of Greece: Council adopts recommendation to address deficiencies in external borders

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/02/12-schengen-evaluation-of-greece/

On 12 February 2016, the Council adopted a recommendation on addressing serious deficiencies identified during an evaluation of Greece's application of the Schengen acquis in the area of external border management. The recommendation proposes to Greece remedial action to address these deficiencies.

and

The Commission may also, under Article 19b of the Schengen Borders Code, recommend that the evaluated member state take certain specific measures with a view to ensuring compliance with this recommendation.

Where, after three months from the adoption of the Council recommendation, serious deficiencies persist and the measures taken have not proved sufficient, the Commission may trigger the application of the procedure provided for in article 26 of the Schengen Borders Code.

Under article 26 of the Schengen Borders Code, the Commission may propose a recommendation, to be adopted by the Council by qualified majority, to reintroduce controls at all or specific parts of the border of one or more member states as a matter of last resort. They may be introduced for a period of up to six months. Controls can be prolonged for additional six month periods up to a maximum duration of two years.

Now what part of

serious deficiencies identified in the evaluation report on the application of Schengen rules in the field of management of the external borders by Greece.

do you not understand and what part of it have either Erolz or I made up?

[erolz66]

You have NOTHING new to add.

No there is nothing new - all your lies were exposed as such at the time you made them, and as long as you continue to ignore this reality (because that is what you do) and just keep repeating these lies I will keep repeating the challenges that prove beyond any possible doubt they were lies and could not possibly have been anything but lies.

If your 'challenges' succeeded in countering my arguments, you would not be here once again re-starting the same stuff to have another "GO".

That you just deny reality, including the reality that I have shown your lies for what they are each and every time you made them, and yet you CONTINUE to make them over and over none the less, is not MY fault.

You are not contributing to what is HAPPENING in reality because it does NOT fit into what you predicted/lied about what WOULD happen to Greece.

More blatant lies and denial of reality, because this is what you do.

What HAPPENED in REALITY was the EU Commission announced via press release that the draft evaluation report on Greece identified 'serious deficiencies BY Greece''. You in turn LIED and said the EU Commission had not criticised Greece.

Then what HAPPENED in REALITY was the EU Commission adopted THIS evaluation report on Greece, making it no longer a 'draft' and leading to them make recommendations as to what actions Greece needed to take to rectify the identified 'serious deficiencies'. You in turn LIED and said the EU Commission had not criticised Greece.

Then what HAPPENED in REALITY was the EU Council passed, via majority vote where the only state to vote against the passing was Greece itself, an 'implementing' decision, placing a three month deadline on Greece to rectify the 'serious deficiencies' identified in the Schengen evaluation report on Greece. You in turn LIED and said the EU had not criticised Greece.

What is HAPPENING right now in REALITY, is Greece is trying to rectify the identified 'serious deficiencies , before the three month deadline set by the EU Council's implementing decision. You in turn are continuing to LIE and say the EU has not criticised Greece.

Instead of accepting that things did not go YOUR way, you are now trying to thrash wildly and pin everything on what was 'recommended' by the EU or EC - as though YOU played NO part in the erroneous interpretations of intent at a solution to the TURKEY-CREATED CRISIS.

Yes you claim this, but there is no evidence to support your claim. All the evidence of what you actually said and what I actually said shows that it is YOU that has 'refused to accept things that did not go your way'. You are as divorced from actual reality in this claim as you are in so many of your claims.

[GreekIslandGirl]

What is HAPPENING right now in REALITY, is Greece is trying to rectify the identified 'serious deficiencies ,

NO - It is the EU as a SHARING partner that is FINALLY now having to rectify the serious deficiencies in the SHARED MANAGEMENT of the EU external border. The deficiencies were that not all the member countries were assisting in patrolling the EU external border, except for Greece! That is why NOW Poland and other EU members are sending assistance too. These were the countries that were deficient in the shared responsibility.

It was Frontex that was deficient!

That is why there is now substantially MORE Frontex assistance.

And with ALL this extra help we may still see deficiencies in the management of the external borders. But it's NOT Greece that is deficient in this crisis - it is those MISSING elements that have been identified and are NOW being utilized. MORE EU member states helping (which they should have been doing ALL along).

And what of the VERY new introduction? Was Greece deficient in not sending migrants back to Turkey? No! Because that part of it was never a DEAL. It's an extra measure introduced because FINALLY the "Unprecedented migrant crisis" has been RECOGNIZED by other EU member states for what it is and not some more usual every day kind of border control that is the responsibility of an individual.

AND what of that OTHER FURTHER extra element added to the mix? The NATO-Aegean patrols! Was Greece deficient in NOT having NATO-AEGEAN patrols before? NO! Because these were newly identified sources of assistance that NEVER had a mention before.

This is the stuff YOU are avoiding.

This is the stuff you do not discuss because it NULLIFIES completely and utterly everything you and stud have been saying all this time and totally supports my stance and interpretation of what the EU intended to do to resolve the Migrant Crisis.

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO ADD SO STOP TROLLING WITH YOUR LIES AND MISINTERPRETATIONS!

[erolz66]

NO - It is the EU as a SHARING partner that is FINALLY now having to rectify the serious deficiencies in the SHARED MANAGEMENT of the EU external border. The deficiencies were that not all the member countries were assisting in patrolling the EU external border, except for Greece! That is why NOW Poland and other EU members are sending assistance too. These were the countries that were deficient in the shared responsibility.

The same LIE after LIE after LIE from you. All have been shown to be lies clearly by the plain clear words of official EU document after EU document, over and over and over and you STILL just deny this REALITY and continue spouting your propaganda over and over. Proganda that is supported by nothing other than your OWN previous LIES.

It was Frontex that was deficient!

Every single official EU document about the Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece (not the 8th Bi Annual report on the functioning of the Schengen area - that you lyingly claim WAS the Schengen Evaluation report on Greece even though it covers a period of time BEFORE the Schengen evaluation report on Greece was completed and thus could not possibly BE the schengen evaluation report on Greece), SAYS explicitly and plainly that Greece was found to be seriously deficient, that Greece was the entity that must rectify these identified serious deficiencies. EVERY SINGLE ONE. There is not a SINGLE EU document about the Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece that says it was FRONTEX that was found in this evaluation report to be 'seriously deficient' or that it is FRONTEX that must rectify the identified serious deficiencies. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

Clear proof that you just deny actual reality, as has been shown and proven by the hardest possible evidence, time and time again, and STILL you just ignore all this undeniable evidence and KEEP spouting your propaganda lies. This is what you do, what you always do.

Even if you ingore the REALITY that every EU document re the Schegen evaluation report on Greece, from commission and council press releases through to EU Council Implementing decisions itself, plainly STATE explicilty that Greece was 'seriously deficient' and none of them say Frontex was, even if you ignore ALL that - the evidence that you claim above is a total and absolute LIE is overwhelming. You just have to look at the 50 recommendation made in order to over come the 'serious deficiencies' to ba able to see you claim is a total blatant bald face LIE.

In 50 recommendation that you claim were made to rectify the serious deficiencies of Frontex, Frontex is mentions ONCE ONLY.

Source - the ACTUAL IMPLEMENTING DECISION of the EU Council on 12 Feb 2016 5985/16 Interinstitutional File:2016/0035 (NLE). Not a press release about it, not a press story about it, not a disucssion about it but the ACTUAL implementing decision itself

http://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/doc ... NIT/en/pdf

50 individual recommendations that YOU claim are to rectify the serious deficiencies of Frontex, which start with

HEREBY RECOMMENDS: Greece should

The ONLY reference to frontex in the entire 50 recommendation you CLAIM are to rectify the identified 'serious deficiencies by Frontex', indeed the only mention of Frontex in the ENTIRE Implementing Decision of the EU Council of 12 February 2016 itself is this SINGLE reference to Frontex.

Recommendation 19

19. (Greece should) increase training at the local level especially on forged and falsified documents, risk analysis and updated legislation; this could also be done by the exchange of officers between BCP's as well as by making better use of the available Frontex tools with regard to forged and falsified documents;

Your claim that 'It was Frontex that was found to be 'seriously deficient in the Schengen evaluation report on Greece is a blatant, brazen, demonstrable and demonstrated LIE. The hardest possible evidence that can exist shows that it is a blatant and brazen LIE. Yet you just go on and on and on repeating the same LIE over and over and over, without any evidence other than your OWN previous lies (the 8th Bi Annual report was the schengen evaluation report on Greece) and despite actual reality and the evidence that proves actual reality. THIS IS WHAT YOU DO. It is exactly what you have done through out this entire excuse for a 'discussion' and it is what you have ALWAYS done on this forum, for year after sorry year.

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO ADD SO STOP TROLLING WITH YOUR LIES AND MISINTERPRETATIONS!

As soon as you stop repeating over and over the same LIES you started this whole thing with, I will stop PROVING with REAL ACTUAL UNDENIABLE evidence that they were and are LIES. But you will not stop, you never stop, reality, evidence, real credible undeniable evidence - these things mean NOTHING to you. You will just go on and on and on not just repeating your lies over and over. There is no way to stop you. This is what you do, it is what you have always done here on these forums.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Sorry for you if you're still struggling to come to terms with being caught out claiming the EC made threats against Greece that you couldn't substantiate because you lied.

Sorry for you if looking at every document thrown our for every purpose to try and hang something worthwhile on your lie led to you misinterpreting press debates and 'conclusions' for actual documents that were not for public viewing.

Sorry for you that you have spent months and months digging to disprove my analyses on the findings and recommendations and reality is too cold.

But I'm NOT sorry for you that your hatred for Greece has erupted again because you just CANNOT take the fact that Greece is finally receiving the help (aka for the 'deficiency') it so desperately needed and that now that 'deficiency' will be plugged by other states fulfilling their obligations in to the 'deficiency' they created in the shared EU external border.

[erolz66]

As ever - when faced with overwhelming evidence of your systematic lying, you just carry on without addressing anything because you can not, and just go back to more lies and ad hominem attacks.

Sorry for you if you're still struggling to come to terms with being caught out claiming the EC made threats against Greece that you couldn't substantiate because you lied.

I and 100's of journalists from 100's of different media outlets, along with Greek ministers, ALL claimed that the original EU Press release about the Schengen Evaluation report on Greece, represented EU criticism of Greece and threatened sanctions against Greece if Greece did not rectify the identified serious deficiencies.

You claimed and still claim it did NOT criticise Greece and did NOT threaten Greece and you are supported in this claim by NO ONE. NOT A SINGLE OTHER PERSON ANYWHERE says what you say, supports what you claim. 100s say the same thing I say and NONE say what you claim.

That is the plain and simple truth and like any and all simple truths you do not like, you did and will continue to just ignore it entirely, because this is what you do.

Sorry for you if looking at every document thrown our for every purpose to try and hang something worthwhile on your lie led to you misinterpreting press debates and 'conclusions' for actual documents that were not for public viewing.

I was talking about the conclusions of a SINGLE EU document - the Schegen evaluation report on Greece. Every other EU document I have referenced is about this SINGLE report.

You claimed and still try to claim this SINGLE document was an is the '8th Bi Annual report on the functioning of the Schengen area'. A TOTAL and ABSOLUTE LIE - proven to be such and proven that such a claim is IMPOSSIBLE. Your are the one that is still trying to claim that an EU Council Implementing Decision, passed by majority vote of the members of the EU Council (ie the heads of state of member countries or their representatives) and that IS publicly available is a 'press debate'. A total and absolute LIE.

Sorry for you that you have spent months and months digging to disprove my analyses on the findings and recommendations and reality is too cold.

I am sorry that you behave this way on these forum, that you have always done so.

But I'm NOT sorry for you that your hatred for Greece has erupted again because you just CANNOT take the fact that Greece is finally receiving the help (aka the 'deficiency') it so desperately needed and that now that 'deficiency' will be plugged by other states fulfilling their obligations in to the 'deficiency' they created in the shared EU external border.

You mistake a 'hatred for Greece' with a 'respect for truth' - inevitably given your own repeated and clearly demonstrated utter contempt for truth.

[supporttheunderdog]

Under the circumstances where the law as applicabale in November 2015 , ie E regulation EC 2007/2004 as amended clearly specified in Paragraph 4 of the introduction to the act that resposibility for external borders rests with member states and where frontex's role is very clearly legally specified in ec2007/2004 ( and your previous nitpicking about the amendments dies not help becuse they did not alter that fundemental position, indded the first of the two amendments specifically referenced it ) what is the precise basis for your assertions that Frontex was deficient ?
Again I ask you quote chapter and verse of eu law as in force in November 2015.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Why don't you look at what has been 'applied' to help you work out what 'applies'.